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  #81  
Old 06-21-2017, 02:24 PM
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Exactly. It was unutterably the wrong thing to have allowed to have happen. Both William and Harry should have been left alone at Balmoral. The tabloids (and perhaps the PM) have a great deal to answer for regarding how they fed into the Diana-mania-fannish-hysteria, rather than let sanity prevail. (I hope Harry understands how the BRF's hand was being forced, and does not 'blame' them for the ordeal; it had everything to do with the public mania at the time). IMO.
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  #82  
Old 06-21-2017, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
Exactly. It was unutterably the wrong thing to have allowed to have happen. Both William and Harry should have been left alone at Balmoral. The tabloids (and perhaps the PM) have a great deal to answer for regarding how they fed into the Diana-mania-fannish-hysteria, rather than let sanity prevail. (I hope Harry understands how the BRF's hand was being forced, and does not 'blame' them for the ordeal; it had everything to do with the public mania at the time). IMO.
It wasn't a mistake for the boys to walk behind their mother's coffin. Obviously, it was a painful time for the boys though.
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  #83  
Old 06-21-2017, 02:30 PM
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I figure, and I find it interesting both he and William have recently made these sorts of statements about X shouldn't of happened, both those boys were in a state of shock and one of the PR folks thought it would be a good idea for them to be very visible after all the negative press the family received. A shame one of the adults in his life didn't put a stop to it.


LaRae

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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
It wasn't a mistake for the boys to walk behind their mother's coffin. Obviously, it was a painful time for the boys though.
Harry certainly thinks it was.


LaRae
  #84  
Old 06-21-2017, 02:34 PM
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It wasn't a mistake for the boys to walk behind their mother's coffin. Obviously, it was a painful time for the boys though.
How can you say that? Harry himself is letting you know it wasn't okay, that it was a mistake. He was a child and as such was a victim of that time; he is letting people know that. It's an amazing statement and important for people to hear and digest. In that instance 'the public' had no 'right' to see those children at such a vulnerable time. A boundary was crossed.
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  #85  
Old 06-21-2017, 02:37 PM
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Yes exactly..he's stating very clearly the line was crossed. You can bet your last dollar if Harry has children he's going to be very much like William when it comes to protecting their privacy...he's not going to want them to experience all that he and his brother went thru with the media.


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  #86  
Old 06-21-2017, 02:37 PM
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Harry certainly thinks it was.


LaRae
He didn't say he wish he never did it. He just said that it's something no child should have to go through it. I agree. Having to bury your parent at that age must've been very painful.

The big problem is that William and Harry weren't giving the proper grief counseling that they needed at that time.
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  #87  
Old 06-21-2017, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
He didn't say he wish he never did it. He just said that it's something no child should have to go through it. I agree. Having to bury your parent at that age must've been very painful.

The big problem is that William and Harry weren't giving the proper grief counseling that they needed at that time.
That last statement isn't right. What Harry has said recently is that they were offered help but he refused to talk. And you cannot make someone talk.

That's why the Head Together Campaign is about "talking", and that its ok to talk.
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  #88  
Old 06-21-2017, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I figure, and I find it interesting both he and William have recently made these sorts of statements about X shouldn't of happened, both those boys were in a state of shock and one of the PR folks thought it would be a good idea for them to be very visible after all the negative press the family received. A shame one of the adults in his life didn't put a stop to it.


LaRae
Yeah.

I think everyone were in a state of shock. The BRF, the court, the public and the press. So no really knew how to deal with it.
I think those who reacted the most healthy was in fact the public, who expressed their shock, horror, grief and anger openly.
The press got a hard time as well, with lots of verbal abuse (which they have since conveniently put out of their minds).
The public needed to show their sympathy to someone and that someone were William and Harry, something they probably couldn't understand at the time. To them their mother was dead and that's pretty devastating for any child, and they couldn't be allowed to mourn in peace.
For the rest of the BRF, they IMO had to walk that walk, all they lacked was each carrying a cross to make the symbolism complete. A walk of penance.

It sure was weird to watch!
  #89  
Old 06-21-2017, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
He didn't say he wish he never did it. He just said that it's something no child should have to go through it. I agree. Having to bury your parent at that age must've been very painful.

The big problem is that William and Harry weren't giving the proper grief counseling that they needed at that time.
We shall have to agree to disagree on this. It's pretty clear after reading what he said...it shouldn't of happened, he shouldn't of had to walk behind his mother's casket and all that took place in public. He shouldn't of ever been put into that situation.


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  #90  
Old 06-21-2017, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
He didn't say he wish he never did it. He just said that it's something no child should have to go through it. I agree. Having to bury your parent at that age must've been very painful.

The big problem is that William and Harry weren't giving the proper grief counseling that they needed at that time.
You are giving his comment the spin that exonerates the fannish-passion that made his walking behind his mother's coffin (at his tender age), with thousands of eyes upon him, 'necessary'.

Now, rather than see that the hysteria did damage to a child, it becomes that the boys weren't given 'the proper grief counseling that they needed', and whose fault would that be (by inference)? The BRF, of course; Charles, of course. So the rationale for hating Charles and blaming the BRF continues. When will it end? Why not accept that everyone at the time did the best they could (and made some mistakes). With the 20/20 vision of our 'enlightened' present it's easy to ascribe blame but it was a shocking moment and everyone did what they could. We know The Queen and Philip and Charles did not want to parade the boys in front of the public, but the public were angrily calling to see 'the boys', and even spoke to 'the boys' once they did show up in ways that were just not okay (imo). Very puzzling phenomenon.
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  #91  
Old 06-21-2017, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
That last statement isn't right. What Harry has said recently is that they were offered help but he refused to talk. And you cannot make someone talk.

That's why the Head Together Campaign is about "talking", and that its ok to talk.
Right, but I think someone should've worked with him and William privately and over time they would've talked. There was a lot stiff upper lips and simply moving on around them and that obviously wasn't much help. Sometimes it takes awhile for kids to talk about their heavy grief and they very often need years of counseling to help them out along the way.

The Heads Together Campaign is a great way of getting rid of the stiff upper lips around grief and get people to talking now and not later.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
You are giving his comment the spin that exonerates the fannish-passion that made his walking behind his mother's coffin (at his tender age), with thousands of eyes upon him, 'necessary'.

Now, rather than see that the hysteria did damage to a child, it becomes that the boys weren't given 'the proper grief counseling that they needed', and whose fault would that be (by inference)? The BRF, of course; Charles, of course. So the rationale for hating Charles and blaming the BRF continues. When will it end? Why not accept that everyone at the time did the best they could (and made some mistakes). With the 20/20 vision of our 'enlightened' present it's easy to ascribe blame but it was a shocking moment and everyone did what they could. We know The Queen and Philip and Charles did not want to parade the boys in front of the public, but the public were angrily calling to see 'the boys', and even spoke to the boys once they did show up inlays that were just not okay imo. Very puzzling phenomenon.
If you're thinking I hate Charles or rest of the family...you got me totally wrong and you're talking to the wrong one.
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  #92  
Old 06-21-2017, 02:54 PM
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Yeah.

I think everyone were in a state of shock. The BRF, the court, the public and the press. So no really knew how to deal with it.
I think those who reacted the most healthy was in fact the public, who expressed their shock, horror, grief and anger openly.
The press got a hard time as well, with lots of verbal abuse (which they have since conveniently put out of their minds).
The public needed to show their sympathy to someone and that someone were William and Harry, something they probably couldn't understand at the time. To them their mother was dead and that's pretty devastating for any child, and they couldn't be allowed to mourn in peace.
For the rest of the BRF, they IMO had to walk that walk, all they lacked was each carrying a cross to make the symbolism complete. A walk of penance.

It sure was weird to watch!

I stayed up to watch it...and it was very surreal.

I'm sure in hindsight his family realize this was not the right decision to have been made regarding the role of the boys.
  #93  
Old 06-21-2017, 02:59 PM
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I stayed up to watch it...and it was very surreal.

I'm sure in hindsight his family realize this was not the right decision to have been made regarding the role of the boys.
I think they knew it at the time. Watch the video: how Harry clings to his father. There is nothing healthy about any of it. They should never have walked and I think the BRF knew that, but were responding to the hysteria a-abroad. There was real hate being directed at the BRF, people are forgetting that.
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  #94  
Old 06-21-2017, 03:05 PM
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I can see that too...them giving in to pressure and I do remember the anger towards the media and the family. I've always been a bit mystified that the BRF was so caught off guard by it all, the reaction to her death and how they handled things afterward.
  #95  
Old 06-21-2017, 06:10 PM
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If you're thinking I hate Charles or rest of the family...you got me totally wrong and you're talking to the wrong one.
Understood. I was just following a line of (potential) logic, not necessarily ascribing it to you personally, though that is the way it may have seemed because of a juxtaposition of ideas.
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  #96  
Old 06-21-2017, 06:54 PM
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It wasn't a mistake for the boys to walk behind their mother's coffin. Obviously, it was a painful time for the boys though.
I disagree--it was horrible for a not quite 13 year old and a 15 year old have to make that walk behind the coffin with all the eyes and cameras on them. I was very uncomfortable watching them the day of the funeral. Thank God the cameras stayed off them during the funeral itself. I felt such compassion for William and Harry--I knew what it was like to suddenly lose a parent as a young person.
  #97  
Old 06-21-2017, 09:35 PM
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There are a couple of documentaries coming up to mark the twentieth anniversary of Diana's death in August and it's said that the brothers are going to speak then about their feelings regarding the aftermath of their mother's death, the atmosphere at the funeral, etc.

They therefore will expand on the things Harry has been quoted on in this interview. We are likely to get a clearer picture, IMO, of who they 'blame' (if anyone) for them doing that walk, as well as their coming down to London from Balmoral, seeing the public mourning, whether they were encouraged to talk about their mother in the days before the funeral, etc.

I think I'd rather wait for the docos and hear it all directly from the horses' mouth(s) so to speak, than from a printed interview, interesting though these often are. I realise that they will both be discreet but you can gather more from a TV interview in the way of physical expressions and demeanour than you can from the printed page, IMO. That's why I'm looking forward to these.
  #98  
Old 06-22-2017, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Harry certainly thinks it was.


LaRae

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I stayed up to watch it...and it was very surreal.

I'm sure in hindsight his family realize this was not the right decision to have been made regarding the role of the boys.
I recently watched the documentary "7 Days That Shook The Windsors" and at that time it was an old-fashioned conference call with the BRF at Balmoral and on the other end, at BP were the Spencers and the Politicians. Guess whose idea it was for the boys to walk behind the gun carriage. Harry was in every way still a child and wanted to go to France with 'Papa' to bring Diana home. He also wanted to behind the gun carriage. William absolutely did not and it was a surprise to many "in the know" when he stepped out with Prince Philip.

I think that is what Harry is talking about. No child should be asked to do that because he was too young to know what he was saying yes to.

https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rc...5jiQjPJuKIK1OA
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  #99  
Old 06-22-2017, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I recently watched the documentary "7 Days That Shook The Windsors" and at that time it was an old-fashioned conference call with the BRF at Balmoral and on the other end, at BP were the Spencers and the Politicians. Guess whose idea it was for the boys to walk behind the gun carriage. Harry was in every way still a child and wanted to go to France with 'Papa' to bring Diana home. He also wanted to behind the gun carriage. William absolutely did not and it was a surprise to many "in the know" when he stepped out with Prince Philip.

I think that is what Harry is talking about. No child should be asked to do that because he was too young to know what he was saying yes to.
Good point. But I wonder if Harry is indeed making that subtle point.
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  #100  
Old 06-22-2017, 02:18 AM
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It's being noted here in the British press that Harry didn't mention his father once in this long and broad ranging Newsweek interview. Take from that as much or as little as you want to.

I'm more concerned by Harry's comments that none of them really want to do what they have to, no one wants to succeed the Queen and they more or less do it 'for the good of the little people'. This is a very dangerous avenue to go down by Harry and he should realise that. I'm all for royals being reasonably frank in interviews, but this borders on whining IMO.
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