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  #141  
Old 03-03-2019, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Isn't Camilla a countryside lady too ? She seems to have worked out well for Harry's father.
Yes she's a 'countryside lady' but she wouldn't have been acceptable as Charles' wife because she wasn't aristocratic enough & had a past. Times have changed of course but there are still plenty of people in the UK who won't welcome her as their Queen due to her long affair while both she & Charles were married. So although it's worked out well for Charles, it remains to be seen whether it will work put well for the monarchy.

There is no perfect recipe for a suitable royal bride. It depends on the character of the bride & strength of love between the couple. From what we've seen of Meghan, she appears to be hard working & caring. She & Harry look like a devoted couple so the really important ingredients of a royal marriage are there.
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  #142  
Old 03-03-2019, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Isn't Camilla a countryside lady too ? She seems to have worked out well for Harry's father.

Harry is not a countryside type though in the way his father and his grandmother are.
I was replying to a comment that it would have been better if Harry had chosen someone from the countryside. Both of Harry's father's wives were from the countryside, and for different reasons both choices have not been smooth sailing. Camilla has worked out well in the sense that she makes Charles happy and is a great support system for him, but needless to say, Charles having Camilla in his life has not been easy, and it remains to be seen how things will go when Charles ascends.

I would not bet the farm on it, but it seems to me that Harry is as much, if not more, of a countryside type than his father.
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  #143  
Old 03-03-2019, 06:08 PM
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Hahahaha...oh yes that 'country wife' worked out so well for Charles! The 80's and 90's were a awesome time for him!!!

As far as discreet and scandal free families...the BRF don't even have that why should they or anyone expect such paragons of virtue and discreetness want to marry them?

William is darn lucky to have snagged Kate and he almost failed to do that! Even she has that uncle that ALL families have...99 percent of us don't have to worry about the world finding out about our dysfunctional families...but we all have that one (or more in some cases) relative that we would rather never be seen or heard from.

So we are back to finding a woman without a 'past' and no known (until the media dig around) scandal....good luck. I suppose that is one way to get rid of the monarchies!!!




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  #144  
Old 03-03-2019, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
I somewhat agree - and given the BRF's past history with American wives (or one American wife), it's understandable that the some of the older members of the public (since Meghan seems to be very popular with the younger generation here in the UK). Sofia has taken to her role within the SRF incredibly well and has managed to "fit in", or at least from what I can see from media coverage and it's almost as if the Swedish public and followers of the RF have forgotten about her past risque modelling career because she has executed her role in the royal family so well.
Meghan's reputation as being pushy and controlling seems to have stemmed from the tabloid press, since the only reports I've heard from such a character are from the likes of the Sun etc, so it's hard to make a judgement on her character based on tabloid gossip for me. Once a tabloid article has created a persona for a member of the RF they tend to alleviate the stories and stick with it, and the other tabloid presses catch on with the idea IMO.
The worst thing any one of us can do is judge someone by what’s being said in tabloid gossip.

Since Meghan had a little public life before Harry - she allowed us to see a bit of her personality. She’s a warm, loving, outgoing person that loves food, flowers, friends, her mother, have an appreciation of her father, loves traveling and her rescue pups. She’s also an humanitarian. This is the real Meghan.

Everything else is what the press made up and folks have been listening to her distant and cold half-sister too much, IMO.
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  #145  
Old 03-03-2019, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Meghan on the other hand often oversteps and sees herself and Harry as having a higher profile than their rank within the family would warrant.
You can't blame Meghan for working hard and because the media writes about her. Several ladies, like for instance Princess Marina and her daughter-in-law Katherine of Kent, have enjoyed tremendous popularity far outweighing what "their rank within the family would warrant" without being criticised for it. If anything their high profiles was used to benefit the monarchy as a whole instead of being seen as a threat.
This doesn't mean that I think that everything Meghan does is right, but why go after someone for being a hard worker.
  #146  
Old 03-03-2019, 06:58 PM
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Strong, hardworking and confident women are always accused of being pushy, overstepping their mark and thinking the sun rise and set on them.

Some folks online and the media don’t like these qualities in senior royal women. They want them to sacrifice all of that and become the royal that they believe they should be. After that major royal tour, someone folks felt like it was their job to bring Meghan down to size.
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  #147  
Old 03-03-2019, 07:18 PM
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I don't see Harry and Meghan over stepping their role. Only the press thinks they want to be at the same level as the future king At the moment they are. They are the grandkids of the queen, William is not heir.

The UK is not comparable to other countries. Unlike many of the continental royals, where younger siblings are almost private citizens, its different in the UK. Harry and Meghan are not going to be private citizens, they aren't going to be in the shadows, as quiet supporters. That isn't how the BRF works. They are in the same role as Andrew and Fergie were in back in the day. Until George and his siblings are old enough to take on duties, Harry and Meghan will play a significant role in events and charities. Both Harry and Meghan are carving out their own role in the family and the works. As the only other child of the future king, Harry has a high profile. That is something the press seems to ignore.


As for the idea of Harry marrying a 'country bride'

Harry is in his 30's. He is in the same boat his bachelor father was. If he wanted a woman who had no history/baggage, he was going to have to go young. Do we want another child bride? There is no woman in her 30's who is not going to have some dating baggage. Nor who (well hopefully) will not have some kind of career and views of her own that she brings to the package. Just as bad as a 19 year old virgin bride for Harry, would have been a 30 year old socialite who had never worked or done anything in life. Harry needed a woman who was sensible with a good head on her shoulders. He found that in a woman like Meghan.

It seems people have short memories. The Middletons certainly caused their own stir. Stories about party pieces cashing in on the royal wedding. On James using royal covers of magazines to promote his cake business. The Uncle who you could write a book about. Even perfect country rose Kate has a family who has been tabloid fodder for years. The Spencers most certainly have been as well. Sophie's family and Camilla's were the exceptions. Then again Camilla was enough of a tabloid fodder without going into her family. Annabel Shand-Elliot has got some spotlight but mainly as she was hired by Charles to decorate his estates.


Charles is the perfect example that the 'perfect marriage on paper' is not so ideal. He has had two marriages, one that was a disaster nearly from the start, and one which has worked out great. It was the perfect marriage on paper which led to years of scandal and issue, before a horrid divorce. The woman he wasn't allowed to marry, ended up being his perfect consort. And in reality Camilla is that. Diana was too much of a star, she shone too much on her own. She was never going to be the supportive consort. Camilla is.

Its sad that a woman with a work ethic is considered pushy. That she doesn't want to take a few years to ease into charities, and wants to work hard from the start, is seen as over stepping boundaries.
  #148  
Old 03-03-2019, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I think there are other reasons why we can't compare Sofia and Meghan. Sofia may have an unconventional background, but she is a Swedish girl (born and bred) who fits in well with Swedish culture. Meghan is an American outsider who is clearly experiencing a mismatch not so much with English culture, but with English upper-class culture, which is another universe in itself. The Telegraph article I recently linked here defined it perfectly well.


On top of that, Sofia understands her role in the RF as the wife of the King's second child. Meghan on the other hand often oversteps and sees herself and Harry as having a higher profile than their rank within the family would warrant. She has been also accused of being "pushy" and wanting to get things "her way or the highway", which is a very American attitude BTW and has immediately set her in a collision course with the Palace staff and probably with the Cambridges.


I anticipate many people here will disagree with me, but I believe what we have been hearing from the press is true to a large extent,

If Meghan really was shunned by the Establishment and the Royal households staff thought she was too pushy or even a loose cannon, they would have worked Harry to help change her behaviour or talked to Meghan, but they wouldn't have sent them on foréign trips. IMHO both HM and Charles delight in her energetic ways and the fact that the queen offered them Frogmore Cottage (that means sharing her beloved private gardens with them) shows that. PLus Charles pays for all the expensive dresses she buys, so there is no way he is angered by her and the way she is. I personally find her a delight but in the end we both don't know what's going on behind the scenes apart from some clues and I think the papers have not more knowledge.
  #149  
Old 03-03-2019, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
Meghan does have a discrete family - her mother Doria's family the Raglands. Not one Ragland went to the media to trash her for cash or demanded an upgrade in lifestyle because of her marriage to Harry. One relative by marriage (no longer in the family) sold pictures but only said favorable things. One story is out that the Sussexes have been making secret visits to Doria.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cos...doria-ragland/

This is making the rounds. I think it's an answer to that "documentary" about the Markles at War. If you see it you get the meaning.
The raglands weren't invited to her wedding. So there must some issues with them as well.
  #150  
Old 03-03-2019, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunawalk View Post
The raglands weren't invited to her wedding. So there must some issues with them as well.
I don’t think there are many of them left that even Doria is close to, much less Meghan. Doria’s parents are deceased and her half siblings are older and much, much younger.

Although, there are rumors that Doria’s younger half-brother attended but was seated where he could keep his anonymity
  #151  
Old 03-03-2019, 09:45 PM
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I get the impression that the media is trying to paint Meghan as a second Wallis Simpson. Just like they have tried to paint Kate as another Diana. Kate is polar opposite to Diana, just as Meghan is to the late Duchess of Windsor. The only similarity is that Meghan is a American divorcee. And that is where the similarities end.

The media forgets that Meghan has been in/exposed to the entertainment industry since she was a child. Unlike Diana, Meghan is PR savvy and understands the ins-and-outs of the media. She isn't a naive 19 year old. As the the royal courtiers - I fully believe that Harry will do everything to protect Meghan from the "grey men", starting with the move to Frogmore Cottage/House
  #152  
Old 03-03-2019, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunawalk View Post
The raglands weren't invited to her wedding. So there must some issues with them as well.
We don't know if they were invited or not. I don't remember anything being said about them either way.


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  #153  
Old 03-03-2019, 11:09 PM
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If Meghan's family attended Meghan's wedding, they must be pathologically shy people. It wasn't for lack of seats since the Queen's racing manager and one of Diana's flatmates scored seats on the "bride's" side of the aisle.
  #154  
Old 03-03-2019, 11:36 PM
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Has the full list of wedding guests been released? If it hasn't, then we can't say who was or wasn't at the wedding. Even if invited to the wedding, every guest has their right for their privacy, and it just might be, that the guests respect their own anonymity, and don't want their faces and names trashed on tabloids.

As for Camilla being the perfect countryside wife... We don't know how it would've turned out, had Charles been allowed to marry her earlier on. We don't know if some relatives would've talked. You really don't know that about any family, someone might get offered such a substantial amount of money, that they'd just spill everything they know.
  #155  
Old 03-03-2019, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
I don’t think there are many of them left that even Doria is close to, much less Meghan. Doria’s parents are deceased and her half siblings are older and much, much younger.

Although, there are rumors that Doria’s younger half-brother attended but was seated where he could keep his anonymity
The Raglands were not all tight lipped. Her half Uncle Joseph talked, saying Meghan drew away from the family as she went up the latter. Many of her photos came from him.

Meghan was close to the women on the Ragland side growing up. Her grandmother helped raise her. There are photos of her with her Aunt Sandra and her cousin. She was a flower girl for her Aunt. Doria was also quite close to her stepmother Ava who is alive. Ava divorced Doria's father but remained close to her stepdaughter. Ava and Doria are the same age.


Yes there were rumors that Joffrey (34 at the time) was in the audience.


I was surprised neither Ashleigh or Christopher Hale attended. Unlike their mother, they never spoke and have been said to be close to Meghan. Especially Ashleigh who is a lawyer.
  #156  
Old 03-04-2019, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Lunawalk View Post
The raglands weren't invited to her wedding. So there must some issues with them as well.
I thought it is still unclear if some where there? No guest list was published and the British media doesn't know how they look like. But I heard people say they were there but did not sit next to Doria but somehwere the cameras did not catch them, because Meghan wanted to spare them the public attention, but recognized them at the receptions.
  #157  
Old 03-04-2019, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
If Meghan's family attended Meghan's wedding, they must be pathologically shy people. It wasn't for lack of seats since the Queen's racing manager and one of Diana's flatmates scored seats on the "bride's" side of the aisle.
Not shy, just not wanting their faces plastered all over the place and being hounded by the press. Not everyone wants the attention others crave.
  #158  
Old 03-04-2019, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Charles is the perfect example that the 'perfect marriage on paper' is not so ideal. He has had two marriages, one that was a disaster nearly from the start, and one which has worked out great. It was the perfect marriage on paper which led to years of scandal and issue, before a horrid divorce.
The ideas of what a "perfect marriage on paper" is definitely changing. Some seem to think that a "titled country bride" would have been the best solution harking back to the times where royal married royal and "suitability" depended on "breeding" and ancestry. Should this really be preferable for a suitable marriage for Harry, perhaps he could have followed in his great great great grandmother Victoria's footsteps and married Princess Beatrice of York. Queen Victoria and Prince Consort Albert were first cousins. Or perhaps Lady Gabriella Windsor was the cousin that got away? After all, The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh are third cousins by one line and second cousins once removed in another.

Personally, I hope those kind of marriages never rear their heads again and the changes that we've seen with marriages being formed because two people are sincerely in love and want to share the rest of their lives together remain the *sole* reason for a marriage and they throw the paper checklist permanently out the window.
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  #159  
Old 03-04-2019, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The ideas of what a "perfect marriage on paper" is definitely changing. Some seem to think that a "titled country bride" would have been the best solution harking back to the times where royal married royal and "suitability" depended on "breeding" and ancestry. Should this really be preferable for a suitable marriage for Harry, perhaps he could have followed in his great great great grandmother Victoria's footsteps and married Princess Beatrice of York. Queen Victoria and Prince Consort Albert were first cousins. Or perhaps Lady Gabriella Windsor was the cousin that got away? After all, The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh are third cousins by one line and second cousins once removed in another.

Personally, I hope those kind of marriages never rear their heads again and the changes that we've seen with marriages being formed because two people are sincerely in love and want to share the rest of their lives together remain the *sole* reason for a marriage and they throw the paper checklist permanently out the window.

As if it was about Royal blood back then - a Royal bride needed two things: the personal ability to bear her husband children and politically good connections. Especially the last thing was why those ladies were revered in their new countries: they were symbols of closeness between countries and that normally meant peace. At least for their generation - Maria-Theresia of Austria and Frederick of Prussia's wife Sophe Charlotte of Brunswick were first cousins, their grandfather a close relative to Frederick's mother Sophe Charlotte of Brunswick. It didn't help Silesia,

though.
But why should a wife chosen out of love have any "automatic" meaning for the people of her new country? So I understand that Royal brides nowadays have to "prove their value" for the people who should curtsey to them and why the media is so interested in their characters and their circumstances. But they should be given a real chance and not be critizised because of prejudices.
  #160  
Old 03-04-2019, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
But why should a wife chosen out of love have any "automatic" meaning for the people of her new country? So I understand that Royal brides nowadays have to "prove their value" for the people who should curtsey to them and why the media is so interested in their characters and their circumstances. But they should be given a real chance and not be critizised because of prejudices.
Perhaps some ingrained tendencies remain in the deep, dark recesses of the brain of how things should be. Tradition is a big part of the monarchy and long standing traditions don't adapt well to changes for the most part.

You've hit the nail on the head though stating Meghan should be given a real chance to prove her value to the royal family rather than purposely digging to find "dirt" and the "black sheep of the family" and every other little tidbit that they've found to hold against the woman Harry married simply because he loves her, she meshes with his royal role as if they were two pieces of a puzzle that fit together and she has the background in her own life that screams experienced with the public and media.

I still believe that Harry caught the brass ring on the marriage-go-round.
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