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  #121  
Old 03-03-2019, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Prince Harry just better had chosen a countryside lady with a discreet family who loves to be low profile. He himself, already a media magnet, married another media magnet with a dysfunctional family even.
This fantasy 'countryside lady' wouldn't be able to be low profile for long as she'd be marrying Harry, who as you say is a media magnet so his wife was always going to be catapulted into the spotlight. Her every move, word & appearance would be scrutinised & picked apart. The role requires a woman with inner strength & the confidence to be a working royal in the public eye. So even if the fantasy wife 'loves to be low profile', it isn't going to happen while being The Duchess of Sussex.

The fantasy 'discreet family' of course is desirable, not least by the wife herself. Who would want their badly behaved relations giving the tabloids endless stories? The problem is that you don't always know how dreadful your family will be until they're under the spotlight & then it's too late. There's also the fact that the British Royal Family are notoriously dysfunctional & have been for centuries so any new bride isn't marrying into a great model of behaviour.

So your fantasy is just that & we should allow the Duchess to grow into the role & ignore the ridiculous click-bait stories, which would be there whoever Harry had married.
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  #122  
Old 03-03-2019, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I hope for the Sussexes the negative tide turns, but I have little expectation. Look at Marie-Christine of Kent: once a foreigner and a Princess Pushy, always a foreigner and a Princess Pushy for the tabloids.
I also hope for a change but it will only come about by positive actions by Harry and Meghan and a change of perspective by the general public as a whole. Its weird but its really all perspectives. How the public looks at things and how the public wants to see things.

Take the statement "It was a dark and gloomy night". That's all we're given but to each and every one of us, how we perceive it is individual unto ourselves. One may picture a setting for a Halloween murder mystery. Another could see it as the sky being darkened by smoke from a raging fire and another see it as a welcoming sight predicting a thunderstorm in an area stricken by drought.

We come here to share our thoughts of what we see and hear where it concerns the Sussex family. Our own unique perceptions. We may like what we see and then again we may not like what see but with discussion and conversation, we get a bigger picture as a whole and different perspectives. No one opinion is more valid than another's but if the conversation is respectful and intelligent and explains our perspectives, it enhances our own views on things. One thing though is that its rare we get direct input from our subjects at hand and how they feel and think and the whys and wherefores and need to consider the sources where we get information.

There's plenty out there to be had concerning Harry and Meghan, their public and private lives, their impending start of a family and their interests and goals in life and its much more interesting than just seeing puppets on a string cutting another ribbon. I'm just really thankful we have a safe and secure place to discuss the things we're interested in among people with the same interest.

"All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players". We happen to be the audience here to enjoy it all. Let's also thank our ever vigilant ushers that keep us in our seats and ensure the "play" is enjoyable for us all.
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  #123  
Old 03-03-2019, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
I hope for the Sussexes the negative tide turns, but I have little expectation.
I too think 'the Die is cast' as regards the Press sentiment, and online BILE to which they are subject. ALL they can do is work,work,work in an effort to overwhelm the negativity with positivity, and be seen as the good people they are..
  #124  
Old 03-03-2019, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I too think 'the Die is cast' as regards the Press sentiment, and online BILE to which they are subject. ALL they can do is work,work,work in an effort to overwhelm the negativity with positivity, and be seen as the good people they are..
Its early morning here and my caffeine intake hasn't reached its full potential yet so that's my excuse for waxing poetic and posting a poem I'd love to have someone needlepoint (I'm all thumbs) and frame and hang in Frogmore Cottage.

To me, it seems that each and every line is pertinent to Harry and Meghan right now. The poem? "If" by Rudyard Kipling.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46473/if---
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  #125  
Old 03-03-2019, 06:06 AM
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Prince Harry just better had chosen a countryside lady with a discreet family who loves to be low profile. He himself, already a media magnet, married another media magnet with a dysfunctional family even.
Choosing a countryside lady did not exactly work out well for Harry's father.
  #126  
Old 03-03-2019, 06:24 AM
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It's fairly apparent Harry chose Meghan for love. You don't choose who to fall in love with. That's a cynical exercise that invariably leads to doomed marriages or very unhappy people. Genuine love just happens. For Harry and Meghan it seems that love is a particularly strong one as it's been tested in front of the whole world and yet they still, literally and figeratively, cling to each other, focussing on their goals of bringing the world's attention to their various charities and causes.

Those that can, do. Those that can't, criticise. I don't see ANY of their harshest critics doing diddly squat to help any charities etc themselves.
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  #127  
Old 03-03-2019, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Prince Harry just better had chosen a countryside lady with a discreet family who loves to be low profile. He himself, already a media magnet, married another media magnet with a dysfunctional family even. Do we ever, ever hear about the Donaldson family? About the Westling family? About the Hellqvist family? About the De Lannoy family? No: no one knows them and no any of them has the urge to blabbermouth. By the way: the same counts for former butlers, secretaries, dressers to British royals. What happened with discretion? Do they not know that silence is golden? All those Paul Burrells, Patrick Jephsons, Dickie Arbiters and the likes: blab-blab-blab in media.

I hope for the Sussexes the negative tide turns, but I have little expectation. Look at Marie-Christine of Kent: once a foreigner and a Princess Pushy, always a foreigner and a Princess Pushy for the tabloids.
Yeah there was a lot about the Helqvist family during their courtship and early marriage and bits about the Donaldsons IIRC although not so much now. Not to mention how almost all married ins "deliberately set out to snag their Prince."

If Harry had married a country girl who never wanted publicity the press would just find a whole new angle to criticise about how they were work shy and out of touch and it was probably an arranged marriage as he was desperate, etc.

The press had a narrative for Harry's wife long before he got married they just change the details around. Although clearly the noxious family members helped it along. TBH I think they'd already planned "they can't get pregnant!" narrative as well so part of this is scrambling for the next best(!) thing.

In terms of foreigners well up until 100 years ago that was expected and many won the affection of the public. I guess we'll see.
  #128  
Old 03-03-2019, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
Yeah there was a lot about the Helqvist family during their courtship and early marriage
I don't remember that much being written about the Hellqvists either back then or now. There isn't that much to write about. A very normal lower middle class family from the most Swedish province of them all. The one who took the heat during the courtship was Sofia herself because of the life choices she made as a youth and never denied (although the court did a good job of getting some things off the Internet)
  #129  
Old 03-03-2019, 09:45 AM
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I agree that Sofia took the brunt of the attacks for her own former career but didn't her parents also come in for criticism for allowing their under 18 year old daughter to pose for risqué photographs. I might be remembering it wrong.

That said the Markles take the cake for family deliberately trying to sabotage their own relative. The only thing I think they having going for them is that they aren't connected to a despotic military junta.
  #130  
Old 03-03-2019, 10:58 AM
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A lot of what’s going on with the Markle’s runs deep and goes years back. It’s pretty obvious that Meghan was blindsided by her father going out of his way to hurt her and to do it so publicly. That must hurt very much and must be embarrassing at the same time.
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  #131  
Old 03-03-2019, 12:43 PM
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Harry and Meghan saw the Tina Turner musical last night (Mar 2):

"We were thrilled and honoured to welcome The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to the show last night. #TinaTheMusical"

https://twitter.com/TinaTheMusical/s...21013083975680
  #132  
Old 03-03-2019, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
I agree that Sofia took the brunt of the attacks for her own former career but didn't her parents also come in for criticism for allowing their under 18 year old daughter to pose for risqué photographs. I might be remembering it wrong.
There were snarky comments about her mum but as far as I can remember they were made in forums like this. I probably made one myself. While I was never a fan of the marriage, in general the Swedish public was supportive of the couple once it became clear that they were serious. After the marriage Sofia has definitely proved me wrong. She's amazing and a great asset to the monarchy in the same way I'm sure Meghan will be. The big difference between the two seem to be that while Sofia have seemingly adapted to the ways of the palace and let things evolve more slowly Meghan burst through the palace doors and have proved unstoppable.
  #133  
Old 03-03-2019, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyonnaise View Post
Harry and Meghan saw the Tina Turner musical last night (Mar 2):

"We were thrilled and honoured to welcome The Duke and Duchess of Sussex to the show last night. #TinaTheMusical"

https://twitter.com/TinaTheMusical/s...21013083975680
Good for them; I'm sure they had fun.
  #134  
Old 03-03-2019, 04:04 PM
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Meghan does have a discrete family - her mother Doria's family the Raglands. Not one Ragland went to the media to trash her for cash or demanded an upgrade in lifestyle because of her marriage to Harry. One relative by marriage (no longer in the family) sold pictures but only said favorable things. One story is out that the Sussexes have been making secret visits to Doria.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cos...doria-ragland/

This is making the rounds. I think it's an answer to that "documentary" about the Markles at War. If you see it you get the meaning.
  #135  
Old 03-03-2019, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
Choosing a countryside lady did not exactly work out well for Harry's father.

Isn't Camilla a countryside lady too ? She seems to have worked out well for Harry's father.


Harry is not a countryside type though in the way his father and his grandmother are.
  #136  
Old 03-03-2019, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
There were snarky comments about her mum but as far as I can remember they were made in forums like this. I probably made one myself. While I was never a fan of the marriage, in general the Swedish public was supportive of the couple once it became clear that they were serious. After the marriage Sofia has definitely proved me wrong. She's amazing and a great asset to the monarchy in the same way I'm sure Meghan will be. The big difference between the two seem to be that while Sofia have seemingly adapted to the ways of the palace and let things evolve more slowly Meghan burst through the palace doors and have proved unstoppable.



I think there are other reasons why we can't compare Sofia and Meghan. Sofia may have an unconventional background, but she is a Swedish girl (born and bred) who fits in well with Swedish culture. Meghan is an American outsider who is clearly experiencing a mismatch not so much with English culture, but with English upper-class culture, which is another universe in itself. The Telegraph article I recently linked here defined it perfectly well.


On top of that, Sofia understands her role in the RF as the wife of the King's second child. Meghan on the other hand often oversteps and sees herself and Harry as having a higher profile than their rank within the family would warrant. She has been also accused of being "pushy" and wanting to get things "her way or the highway", which is a very American attitude BTW and has immediately set her in a collision course with the Palace staff and probably with the Cambridges.


I anticipate many people here will disagree with me, but I believe what we have been hearing from the press is true to a large extent,
  #137  
Old 03-03-2019, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I anticipate many people here will disagree with me, but I believe what we have been hearing from the press is true to a large extent,

Which might also be a case of conformation bias.

There might be a slight case of “cultural differences” between Meghan and the palace staff and perhaps Harry’s family. But that’s not really someone’s fault. It’s nothing more than that to me. It’ll sort itself out in time. As for the press, I take what they write with more than a pinch of salt. Until there is actual proof, it’s nothing more than a story to me. Also.... Kate was also accused of being pushy. And waity.... which to me seems a bit like the lazy immigrant who takes all our jobs.
  #138  
Old 03-03-2019, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I think there are other reasons why we can't compare Sofia and Meghan. Sofia may have an unconventional background, but she is a Swedish girl (born and bred) who fits in with Swedish culture. Meghan is an American outsider who is clearly experiencing a mismatch not so much with English culture, but with English upper-class culture, which is another universe in itself. The Telegraph article I recently linked here defined it perfectly well.


On top of that, Sofia understands her role in the RF as the wife of the King's second child. Meghan on the other hand often oversteps and sees herself and Harry as having a higher profile than their rank within the family would warrant. She has been also accused of being "pushy" and wanting to get things "her way or the highway", which is a very American attitude BTW and has immediately set her in a collision course with the Palace staff and probably with the Cambridges.


I anticipate many people here will disagree with me, but I believe what we have been hearing from the press is true to a large extent,
I somewhat agree - and given the BRF's past history with American wives (or one American wife), it's understandable that the some of the older members of the public (since Meghan seems to be very popular with the younger generation here in the UK). Sofia has taken to her role within the SRF incredibly well and has managed to "fit in", or at least from what I can see from media coverage and it's almost as if the Swedish public and followers of the RF have forgotten about her past risque modelling career because she has executed her role in the royal family so well.
Meghan's reputation as being pushy and controlling seems to have stemmed from the tabloid press, since the only reports I've heard from such a character are from the likes of the Sun etc, so it's hard to make a judgement on her character based on tabloid gossip for me. Once a tabloid article has created a persona for a member of the RF they tend to alleviate the stories and stick with it, and the other tabloid presses catch on with the idea IMO.
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  #139  
Old 03-03-2019, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Prince Harry just better had chosen a countryside lady with a discreet family who loves to be low profile. He himself, already a media magnet, married another media magnet with a dysfunctional family even. Do we ever, ever hear about the Donaldson family? About the Westling family? About the Hellqvist family? About the De Lannoy family? No: no one knows them and no any of them has the urge to blabbermouth. By the way: the same counts for former butlers, secretaries, dressers to British royals. What happened with discretion? Do they not know that silence is golden? All those Paul Burrells, Patrick Jephsons, Dickie Arbiters and the likes: blab-blab-blab in media.
Good thing Harry had the freedom to choose a wife he loves and likes, and who loves and likes him equally back. That's the basis of any relationship.

No family is perfect, and if the same amount of scrutiny were directed at that perfect countryside family, than is done to meghan, there would be no doubt many skeletons in the family closet. At least the Markles have shot all their shots. There is nothing left to say, except repeating the same old. It's easy enough to ignore them, and nothing they say is scandalous.
  #140  
Old 03-03-2019, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I think there are other reasons why we can't compare Sofia and Meghan. Sofia may have an unconventional background, but she is a Swedish girl (born and bred) who fits in well with Swedish culture. Meghan is an American outsider who is clearly experiencing a mismatch not so much with English culture, but with English upper-class culture, which is another universe in itself. The Telegraph article I recently linked here defined it perfectly well.


On top of that, Sofia understands her role in the RF as the wife of the King's second child. Meghan on the other hand often oversteps and sees herself and Harry as having a higher profile than their rank within the family would warrant. She has been also accused of being "pushy" and wanting to get things "her way or the highway", which is a very American attitude BTW and has immediately set her in a collision course with the Palace staff and probably with the Cambridges.

I anticipate many people here will disagree with me, but I believe what we have been hearing from the press is true to a large extent,
I think that Telegraph article was mostly snarky but YMMV. Whilst she may be having trouble fitting in I don't really think she expected to be top dog. For one thing, Harry really doesn't seem to want that (neither does anyone else apparently.) They are senior royals with a high profile so I don't think that's overstating anything until at least the little Cambridges are 25-30ish and they have been given several high profile roles. Kate's accused of being workshy, Meghan's accused of being "pushy" and sending emails at 5am, neither can win.

There may well be some truth in some of the stories but so much is so OTT vitriolic that I can't take them seriously.

Kate was "commoner Waity Katie" now she's "traditional English Rose" to Meghan's "Hollywood dangerous feminist". If Harry had married Cressida it would be "aristocratic Cressida vs outsider Kate".

I wouldn't suggest following Charles and Camilla's relationship for anyone for obvious reasons.

That said for the most part Harry and Meghan's courtship took place either at Windsor, Nott Cott or her home in Toronto. They weren't ever club hounds together.
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