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  #661  
Old 08-20-2011, 06:32 AM
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i think the outfit is great, but it's just not appropriate for the ocasion. it's after all a sad event that brought them there, so a more format, less "shiny" outfit would have been more appropriate (a plain black, white, grey, blue dress for example).
i have nothing against the outfit though which i think looks great, but being elegant is also being "in coherence with" the ocassion.
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  #662  
Old 08-20-2011, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fascinator View Post
"What began as a gathering of around 200 protesters demanding answers over the death of Mark Duggan, who was shot dead by police on Thursday, culminated 12 hours later in a full-scale riot that saw brazen looting spread across north-London suburbs." Tottenham riots: a peaceful protest, then suddenly all hell broke loose | UK news | The Guardian
The fact they you're getting most of your news from the Guardian, a left wing rag written by bleeding heart liberals who believe that all our problems would be solved if the government handed these people a bit more money (even though we don't have anymore money) does not surprise me. A protest was hijacked by groups of people who had nothing to do with the protest. Those who were rioting were not part of that community and have no more interest in what happened to Mark Duggan than I do. They saw that the police were not acting to prevent the riots and saw an opportunity to 'acquire' designer clothes and electronics without having to pay for them.

I also wanted to make the point with regards to the clothes Kate was wearing. I'd bet a penny to a pound that William was wearing a much more expensive outfit than Kate was. The kind of suits William wears come from Saville Row and cost at least 3,000 each. That's before we get to the likely handmade shoes and the Turnbull and Asser shirt and tie. So, before everyone rakes Kate over hot coals please keep in mind that her outfit was likely quite restrained when compared to William's.
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  #663  
Old 08-20-2011, 11:22 AM
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Well personally, I thought Catherine should have been wearing sackcloth and ashes.
  #664  
Old 08-20-2011, 12:37 PM
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While some are busy taking the Duchess to task for what she wore, the people they met couldn't care less. They were just focused on the fact that William and Kate paid them and their communtiy a visit.

Quote:
“At first Kate couldn’t believe 70 looters came in here. She asked twice – she said ‘70?’. Finally my dad said, ‘Yes, seven-zero came in’. Kate couldn’t believe it. I could see she genuinely cared. Kate was sad for us as a family.”
Quote:
“Wills and Kate have made me so happy – my morale is so high I’m determined to keep the business going and not be beaten by the rioters.”
Quote:
“The families were very were pleased William and Kate took the time to come and meet them. It shows they’re in touch with ordinary people.”
UK riots: Prince William says we must all fight back together on Birmingham visit with Kate - mirror.co.uk
  #665  
Old 08-20-2011, 01:08 PM
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Thanks for this link . I found more quotes, not sure if it's a repeat or not, but I'll share them anyway. The point is, that the people who had a chance to interact with William and Catherine were touched by the fact that they cared and came out to show support. Well done yet again.

UK riots: Prince William says we must all fight back together on Birmingham visit with Kate - Mirror mobile
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  #666  
Old 08-20-2011, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daria_S View Post
Thanks for this link . I found more quotes, not sure if it's a repeat or not, but I'll share them anyway. The point is, that the people who had a chance to interact with William and Catherine were touched by the fact that they cared and came out to show support. Well done yet again.

UK riots: Prince William says we must all fight back together on Birmingham visit with Kate - Mirror mobile
Jumping on the bandwagon about the rags.

The clothes.. NOT the press.

What is good here is that we do notice what the royals wear. I do not think its their intent that what they wear is the best but that its quality.

Someone please find me the link about the shoes Charles has worn for over 40 years?

Its the same thing they want to happen with where they go and why. Quality. Its NOT about fashion or the cut of the hair or the old shoes that are worn. Its because they are out and about and didn't drop droopy drawers or pick their nose that we find what they wear is something of note. We cover ourselves and people make rules how we should or shouldn't be clad.

When the clothes worn outrank the purpose I think there's something seriously wrong. Just my opinion of course.
  #667  
Old 08-20-2011, 01:48 PM
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William tells a riot victim that next the rioters come to rob his store, he (the victim) should get William and he (William) will come with is aids and beat the thugs up. Love the hands-on approach he's got.

Birmingham riots: Prince William reveals he would like to thump looters - Top Stories - News - Birmingham Mail
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  #668  
Old 08-20-2011, 01:49 PM
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Exactly. The people they met were not even thinking about W&K's fashion choices.

Osipi, I found this article on his shoes. It says that he bought them for 2,500 and has had them for 40 years.

One's antique clothes show: How Prince Charles has always been king of wardrobe recycling | Mail Online
  #669  
Old 08-20-2011, 04:26 PM
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The Raggedy Man

Thanks for this link. My faves:

Aged 16, fashion designer Alexander McQueen served an apprenticeship here and, while helping make suits for Prince Charles, would secretly scrawl obscene messages on the inside of the linings.

What do you suppose they are- "Liz Does Not Rule OK", "FU, Chuck", "One's Fly is Open"?


No wonder Charles wears his suits until they are coming apart at the seams (he is also likely to favour Gieves and Hawkes for suits and coats).

Ten pounds sterling for any man who can provide a picture of the PoW with splitting seams!


When the future King had his polo accident in 1990, T&As cutter, Mr Cuss, made Charles a selection of special, one-armed shirts with matching slings in the same material.

Do you suppose he still wears them and just doesn't take off his jacket?
  #670  
Old 08-20-2011, 04:43 PM
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Wow, things got out of hand very quickly.
Why is it that online forums attract the bitter and twisted and those pushing an obvious agenda while pretending they're not?
Why do some people choose to spend so much of their time and emotional energy in pursuit of the negative?

Rhetorical questions, where the context may not be so obvious now that many of the irrational, patronising, aggressive (while enjoying the attention) and off topic posts have been removed.

Thanks for everyone's (or most people's) patience.

Warren
British Forums moderator
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  #671  
Old 08-20-2011, 06:10 PM
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Thank you Warren. Last night and this morning, this thread was beyond anything that would be recognized belonging to any part of this fantatsic website. Sad and disgusting. Thanks to you and the Team for doing what needed to be done. :o)
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  #672  
Old 08-21-2011, 09:52 AM
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Yes, thank you for interrupting. I admit that I get caught up in the heat sometimes, it's up to me to learn to ignore certain posts and posters.

Let's keep these forums healthy and discussion-worthy!
  #673  
Old 08-21-2011, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandma828 View Post
She had on a skirt and blouse. If the press hadn't posted who made them you wouldn't know they didn't come off the rack somehwere. She looked very appropriate. Her shoes were simple pumps. Nothing fancy. I don't understand the sour grapes.
I spotted that her outfit was McQueen before the press did. The blouse was fussy and the skirt was covered in gold buttons: hardly her most simple outfit. It's been compared to the military coat that she wore when presenting medals, which was more appropriate for the occasion than this was.
  #674  
Old 08-21-2011, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
As always, I will have a problem with her heavy make-up - for such a young woman, for any woman - and the heavy handed mascara - reminds me of Sarah Fergerson in her recent Australian interview - is this intense eye stuff a fashion now? Because I'm noticing it on other women in the camera's eye lately, too.

I do agree that she has dressed very 'flashy' - and could have 'dressed up' nicely but without the fashion being front and center. Her wardrobes are verging perilously close to 'wearing her' - being 'costumes'. She's learning, as someone said. She has yet to strike that balance of being fashionable and as Coco Chanel said: It is always better to be slightly underdressed. Dress shabbily and they remember the dress; dress impeccably and they remember the woman.
Yes, I completely agree. I think rather than making fashion statements she should focus on a more understated style, which will hopefully come with age.

Btw, I'm not sure what happened last night (I wasn't there) or who was involved but please don't think I have an agenda or I'm just hating on Kate. Being one of the most celebrated women in the world doesn't mean you're immune to criticism. Sometimes she gets her style so so right, and sometimes she gets it so so wrong. What annoys me more than anything is when you're in the minority and labelled as jealous or spiteful.
  #675  
Old 08-21-2011, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
Yeesh, she really can't win with some people can she? She showed up, she looked nice, and there's no way on earth she can make everyone happy with what she wears.

I'm just glad to see them out and about
Not being here last night, I don't know what happened but reading through the posts I have a clearer picture. I agree with Hermione. This is yet another case of, "You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't." The critical issue is that the couple cared enough to make the effort to visit a riot-torn area which the residents appreciated.
  #676  
Old 08-21-2011, 06:24 PM
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Posts that aren't moving on as Warren requested have been deleted.

Time to MOVE ON.
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  #677  
Old 08-21-2011, 08:54 PM
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In the spririt of trying to move one, could I try to help with a few background points, please?

I think that the only important thing is that Catherine and William took the trouble to make the visit. Unlike Charles and Diana in the early days of their marriage, William and Catherine have been keen for William to be a full time serving member of the armed forces for the moment. The consequence of this is that they have therefore taken the decision NOT to be full time working royals and have therefore performed very few public duties. The fact that they decided to visit those affected by the aftermath of the riots therefore shows, in my humble opinion, the importance that the couple attach to the sad events of the past few days.

Re expensive clothing: the fact that Royals wear expensive clothing, even when visiting poor neigbourhoods / deprived areas etc has actually been raised as an issue over the years. As various people have commented above, Catherine's clothes were [relatively] expensive. However, most working Royals [I think Princess Anne is sometimes an exception] do wear very expensive couture, and male royals' handmade Savile Row tailored suits are the equivalent of couture. Catherine's outfit was expensive, but, oddly enough, not AS expensive as a couture piece. The difference was that it - and its price tag - was immediately verifiable. Had the Queen been wearing a Stuart Parvin couture item, it would undoubtedly cost much more than what Catherine spent; the difference is that because it is unique piece, it is much harder - if not impossible - to discover what its EXACT cost would have been. And so I am certain that if the Queen had made the visit, no one would have mentioned the cost of her outfit, even though as couture it would have been more expensive than even high-end Designer.

The question of whether it is appropriate to wear expensive clothing in deprived areas has been discussed for more than a century so far as the BRF is concerned - it was ceratinly a huge issue in Victorian times amongst the Reformers, because the gulf between the haves and have-nots was far more pronounced then. There was no welfare state whatsoever. [I am guided by my American friends in what I say next, but I understand that the British Social Security system we have nowadays and our 'free at point of delivery to all' National Health System is far more comprehensive than current provision in America, and so even our British Poor and Deprived have more resources available to them than elsewhere]. There has accordingly been a tradition that British Royal Family members are not castigated for wearing expensive clothes - indeed, some social historians who have commented on this make the point that it is more patronising if the Royals 'dressed down', as well as perhaps sending an unintended message of 'we don't bother to get dressed up for the socially disadvantaged as they are not worth it'. My personal opinion is that there is nothing wrong in Catherine wearing her engagement ring. She has an expensive ring. Fact. It is surely ludicrous to try to conceal this fact. Look beyond the expensive clothes and the next question might be the much more uncomfortable one: Isn't it a bit insensitive to have a monarchy at all when there are pockets of poverty in areas of the UK. [Which is not my view]. So far as the class divide is concerned, there is a very intersting work of art that I saw at Royal Ascot, a sculpture in fact, commermorating the work that the Queen has done during her reign to try to bridge the gap between the Establishment [i.e. upper classes] and what is described as 'those from the traditional working classes' [i.e. the poor]. Compared with previous reigns, statistics show that there is [proportionally] just as much chance now of being a guest of the Queen or receiving an honour from the Queen whether one is from an Establishment or traditionally poorer background. At the start of the Queen's reign, the chance of an ordinary working person being received at at Garden Party or recieving an Order of the British Empire was practically nil. Nowadays, rank is no bar to invitation or investiture. Which is how it should be in my humble opinion.

Could I end by making a plea? I have only been a member of TRF for a few months but have had a mostly overwhelmingly positive experience here as a memeber. We all seem to come from many different parts of the globe and I daresay that some of us have very differing views. Please, therefore, can I echo people's calls for individual's views to be respected and responses made courteously, even if they differ - and perhaps considerably so - from our own views. This is particularly the case when politics are involved. Thank you.

Hope this helps

Alex
  #678  
Old 08-21-2011, 09:12 PM
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Alex,

As usual, thank you for providing some very useful information. Your posts help me understand (as well as admire and appreciated) United Kingdom even more.
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  #679  
Old 08-21-2011, 10:36 PM
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I stay away for a few days, and after seeing the last pages. I'm glad I did.

If Prince William and The Duchess were to meet me, I would like them to look at their best!
I'm sure those that met the couple, chose to do the same!

damn if you do, dam if you don't!
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  #680  
Old 08-22-2011, 12:59 AM
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Fascinating! The purpose of the duke and duchess' visit to Birmingham this past week was to show how the royal family, and thus the sovereign, is concerned about the well being of those affected by the riots. More specifically to console those who loss loved ones or their entire personal belongings or witnessed their businesses being decimated. Simultaneously offering on behalf of the royal family, and thus the sovereign, thanks to all those who assisted in controlling the fires, aiding people injured by the rioters, and protecting property from looters. And yes making a general visual assessment of the damage. However, this goal was thwarted, according to the opinions of expert attire assessors, who in general conclude that the etiquette displayed by the duchess demonstrated solely in her selection of her attire projected an air of disregard for the agony that many residents of Birmingham are currently suffering from. Fascinating.

Remarkable, how the weaving of a variety of threads into a particular pattern culminating in an item of wardrobe belonging to a certain individual in so choosing to adorn themselves with such item inflicts so much agony upon others. Poetic in fact.

It is settled...the item should be publicly destroyed and an official statement of apology should be made by the wearer and official papers outlining attire for HRHs to wear during public engagements should be published.

A little over the top? Whatever gave you that impression?
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