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  #41  
Old 10-07-2005, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
I think part of the reason why people have talked about protesting is because Diana was hugely popular in the U.S. and Charles was not.
I think the view here in may respects is Diana was beloved greatly for her modern approach to royalty and for her glamour and youth.

In the U.S. as well, and this just maybe my view, so please forgive, marrying the woman who broke up your marriage is still not viewed as socially acceptable no matter the circumstances.


Another tidbit is Charles has been openly critical of President Bush at times so that relationship will be interesting to see.
People marry the person who broke up their marriage and it doesn't hurt them--see Anna Wintour, Woody Allen, Brad Pitt, among others.
I don't know about "beloved" but Diana had her fans here.
I agree re the Charles/Bush opinions, but I think Charles knows that for protocol reasons he has to keep his mouth shut.

Thanks for posting the Post articles--that Kinsley one was excellent, and true! How many men would do that!
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  #42  
Old 10-07-2005, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caroline mathilda
The "protests" I was referring to were found when I was reading through some of the online US newspapers. Nothing huge or organized; probably all talk. The articles were just saying how some folks still are not happy with the C&C marriage and are still Diana supporters in this "post-Diana" era.
I read the online papers too but they all quoted the same story. Basically that Charles and Camilla's wedding was controversial in Britain and some in Britain still opposed it. They also referred to Charles' advisors who apparently thought America was Diana-land which was a reason the papers speculated that he hadn't made a public visit in awhile. The British royal family doesn't make official visits to the U.S. often so I doubt that's the reason Charles hasn't come. I think an advisor or two probably said at some point that America was Diana-land but just because one of Charles' advisors said at some point back in history it doesn't make it true today.
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  #43  
Old 10-07-2005, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
You took the words right out of my mouth. Excellent and eloquent post.
Thanks!!
Thank you. :)

I know we can be a bit more prudish in this country regarding such things, but while divorce is accepted, the idea of marrying the other woman and living like nothing has happened is not.

I think many Americans still lay a lot of the blame on Charles and then also, and this is the cruel part, loved and adored Diana because she was beautiful, wore clothes well, showed the human side of the monarchy and was a thoroughly modern woman who refused to share her husband...not that she was perfect either.

I think we are still strong allies and of course we will disagree about certain issues, but that is expected.

With that said, it will be great to see them here and hopefully we will FINALLY see Camilla in a tiara!!!!!!!
.
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  #44  
Old 10-07-2005, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
This is just my opinion only, but I see a degree of selfishness with the idolization of Diana...
Ysbel, wasn't it just the other day someone was complaining that yet another Camilla thread had been taken over by Diana discussions?

Off-topic for the moment, but in terms of hypocrisy with selective condemnation, I've always been puzzled why Princess Caroline of Hanover has been left untouched by the moralists. Is there a scale for the volume of moral outrage dependent upon the attractiveness and style of the female protagonists? Was it simply a case of Chantal losing out in the glamour-stakes and therefore not worthy of a prolonged campaign of support? Has anyone accused the two Hanoverian princelings of giving a "slap in the face" to their mother by admitting to liking Caroline? Did anyone constantly ask "what must the boys think?" I suppose not. There are some interesting parallels in the two stories, but it just shows that moral indignation and self-righteousness can at times be very selectively applied.
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  #45  
Old 10-07-2005, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Ysbel, wasn't it just the other day someone was complaining that yet another Camilla thread had been taken over by Diana discussions?

Off-topic for the moment, but in terms of hypocrisy with selective condemnation, I've always been puzzled why Princess Caroline of Hanover has been left untouched by the moralists. Is there a scale for the volume of moral outrage dependent upon the attractiveness and style of the female protagonists? Was it simply a case of Chantal losing out in the glamour-stakes and therefore not worthy of a prolonged campaign of support? Has anyone accused the two Hanoverian princelings of giving a "slap in the face" to their mother by admitting to liking Caroline? Did anyone constantly ask "what must the boys think?" I suppose not. There are some interesting parallels in the two stories, but it just shows that moral indignation and self-righteousness can at times be very selectively applied.
.
Hi Warren,

I know....off topic... :)

I think because of the deaths of Princess Grace, her second husband Srefano, and when she seemed to spend much of the early 90's in mourning people just figured she was a hands-off situation....
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  #46  
Old 10-07-2005, 03:09 PM
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I think that Caroline has gotten a break in public opinion because she is an attractive woman, whereas Camilla was "The Rottweiler."
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  #47  
Old 10-07-2005, 04:46 PM
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I find this discussion interesting and am glad that we are exchanging views without rancour.

I always enjoyed following Princess Diana's story from begining to end. I have to admit that I am not as interested in C&C as I was her. Perhaps for many of the reasons cited by Lady Marmalade. I also think Lady Marmalade very articulately summarized the "average" American's view of the Diana-Charles-Camilla situation.

I have followed C&C since they were engaged, including getting up early to watch their wedding on TV, and will continue to watch with interest their visit to the States. As I said earlier, I think most Americans will either be indifferent or curious. I also think Americans will receive them with courtesy.

Whether it is odd or not, Americans still see the British Royal Family as "ours....sort of." There is always some degree of excitement when a British Royal comes calling on these shores. :)

Caroline Mathilda
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  #48  
Old 10-07-2005, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
There are some interesting parallels in the two stories, but it just shows that moral indignation and self-righteousness can at times be very selectively applied.
Hey Warren, that's what I meant to say.

I agree with iowabelle, I think physical appearance drives our opinions of people more than we're willing to admit.
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  #49  
Old 10-07-2005, 06:10 PM
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I also think america will be more curious than anything. Americans do think of the British Royal Family as ours almost. When we say Queen everone thinks of Lizzy. We have a strange connection with them. Diana's outside beauty and genius PR sense helped her win the obsessive support and idolization. She is forgivin for having affairs with numerous men and breaking up marriages but charles is damned to hell for having an affair with his soul mate. I love to read about Diana's PR stragies. She was a genius, the royal family could learn something from Diana.
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  #50  
Old 10-07-2005, 06:23 PM
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Excuse me for admiring Diana. Also, Diana "fanatics" are not selfish either. We see something that others do not. While she was not blameless, Diana was used by Charles and his family to produce the next heirs to the House of Windsor. That is being treated pretty shabbily in my opinion and makes me understand why she did what she did. Charles needed that virgin bride and that is the only reason he married Diana.

By the way, I was the one who wished she hadn't married him so she would have had a much better chance at a happier life.

A note to Beatrix Fan: Camilla is not a saint either. She was sinning before Diana was born!

Also, contrary to popular belief, I do have a life outside of "Diana worship".
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  #51  
Old 10-07-2005, 06:28 PM
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Yes tiarapin but you had no mention of why people kept bawling at Camilla in your post. Diana knew very well why the Royal Family wanted her. She grew up in with the aristos. She was not that stupid. I admired Diana for her style and charitiy work too. Diana also used her Royal status to get what she wanted. Diana forgave and acknoledged C&C why cant others. Looking only at Dianas misery is very one sided. You cant change the past but you can try to make the future better.
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  #52  
Old 10-07-2005, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princejonnhy25
Yes tiarapin but you had no mention of why people kept bawling at Camilla in your post. Diana knew very well why the Royal Family wanted her. She grew up in with the aristos. She was not that stupid. I admired Diana for her style and charitiy work too. Diana also used her Royal status to get what she wanted. Diana forgave and acknoledged C&C why cant others. Looking only at Dianas misery is very one sided. You cant change the past but you can try to make the future better.
I won't stand to one side and let people bash her and make Camilla out to be a good person. I just can't. It makes me sick to my stomach.
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  #53  
Old 10-07-2005, 06:35 PM
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News

http://people.monstersandcritics.com...meets_Jude_Law

Duchess Meets Jude Law

Just felt like posting it.

If there is a terroist attack within the next few days will the royal or state visit be canceled.

Forgive me for being a bit random. I am very used to just jotting down a bunch of thoughts.
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  #54  
Old 10-07-2005, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
I won't stand to one side and let people bash her and make Camilla out to be a good person. I just can't.
Tiaraprin, as I understand your feelings, I actually don't think this will happen in the US. Diana will always be the epitome of what Americans see as a fairy princess.

I think the best C&C can hope for in America this time is that the public will give them (ie her) a neutral and pleasant audience. IMO Camilla will never exceed Diana in the American mind; perhaps in time, Camilla can look forward to a level of acceptance with less harsh comparision.

Caroline Matilda
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  #55  
Old 10-07-2005, 07:35 PM
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Re:

Camilla is not a saint either. She was sinning before Diana was born!



I do apologise. Here was I thinking that it was Our Lady who was born via the Immaculate Conception - not Diana Spencer.

And I don't think we can really judge can we? What has it got to do with us? When did Diana Spencer ask you to defend her?
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  #56  
Old 10-07-2005, 08:08 PM
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Thank you for changing your icon Tiarapin. I did not think your last icon did Dianas beauty justice. This one does. It is very nice. Of course Diana and her marriage and the good times of her being in the Royal Family will be the epitome of a fairytale princess to americans. But there is no need for fairytales anymore. We need real people.
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  #57  
Old 10-07-2005, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
I won't stand to one side and let people bash her and make Camilla out to be a good person. I just can't. It makes me sick to my stomach.
No one was bashing Diana here, tiaraprin. I may have been bashing the Diana-lovers but not Diana herself.

Camilla is not a saint but she does have one trait I admire and that she is unswayed by the opinions of others. That shows a strong sense of her own identity and is a pretty good and healthy outlook on life. Not very many people have that, so when I see someone that does, I admire their strength and wish I had it. I wish for Diana's sake that she had had some of that strength because if she had she may have been alive and happily married today.

Now this thread is veering into going way offtopic but I will say that the fairytale princess myth is a very destructive myth for women to buy into. It disempowers them and puts them at the mercy of the handsome prince (who may turn out to be a jerk) or anybody else in a powerful position. I would hope that women in this day and age don't expect a prince to come by and suddenly make everything better. Men are human too and they have their own problems.

A far better role model is a woman who can take care of herself and does but as an adult is willing to make some sacrifices to share her life with someone she loves.

Now does this mean I approve of the affair? No, but overall I think Camilla has a very healthy and strong outlook on life which a lot of women could use.
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  #58  
Old 10-07-2005, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princejonnhy25
http://people.monstersandcritics.com...meets_Jude_Law

If there is a terroist attack within the next few days will the royal or state visit be canceled.
Princejonnhy 25, if there is a terrorist attack, God forbid, we will have much more important things to deal with than royal visits. Hopefully you know that.

Caroline Mathilda
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  #59  
Old 10-07-2005, 09:40 PM
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I dont know what I was thinking. God forbid, I hope we dont have one. I had forgoten for a second the real world that we live in. I guess I got caught up in something fun happening. Sad world we live in. I dont think I could handle another blow to my favorite city.
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  #60  
Old 10-07-2005, 10:02 PM
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I just checked the Prince of Wales website to see when C&C will make the next joint appearance. Looks like nothing is scheduled until the US visit next month. Camilla doesn't have anything at all the rest of October. Does royals often taken time off before a major trip? I thought the visit will only be a few days. Didn't seem like they need a whole month to prepare.
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