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  #1001  
Old 06-15-2018, 02:39 PM
Gentry
 
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And even if there was protocol, wouldn't the smart thing to do is ask your boss? I mean, if I'm not sure how my boss wants something done, I ask. Didn't know I was doing it wrong all this time.
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  #1002  
Old 06-15-2018, 02:51 PM
ROYAL NORWAY's Avatar
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Well, here are some articles from yesterday:

BBC article:
The Queen and Meghan visit Cheshire on first joint trip - BBC
Quote:
At the scene, Danny Savage, BBC North of England correspondent:

The Duchess of Sussex has taken part in royal engagements since her wedding but this was arguably her most important yet - accompanying the Queen on a day of visits.

They arrived in Cheshire on board the royal train before visiting the new Mersey Gateway Bridge and Chester.

Thousands of people waited at the venues hours in advance to try and get a view of the pair.

Stalls selling flags and souvenirs were also set up on the streets of Chester and schoolchildren greeting the Queen and duchess eagerly awaited the royal visitors early this morning.
Article from ITV's royal editor, Chris Ship - with a video report:
Meghan is shown the royal ropes - by the boss -ITV
Quote:
When you’re on a training course at work, it’s always best to have the most senior person running it.

And in a way, that is what the Duchess of Sussex got today when she accompanied The Queen on a series of engagements in Cheshire.

There was one moment when Meghan appeared a little unsure about who should get in the car first.

And another when the Queen shuffled along the back seat which meant Meghan was heading for the wrong door.

But neither moment could be classed as particularly serious.
Sky News article:
One is amused! The Queen and Meghan share giggle at first joint outing - Sky News
Quote:
The Queen and Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex, shared a giggle as they opened the Mersey Gateway bridge in their first official engagement.

Meghan, 36, appeared at ease with her majesty as she passed another royal milestone, days after her first balcony appearance on Buckingham Palace on Saturday, during Trooping the Colour.

She and the Queen opened the bridge over the Mersey and unveiled a plaque to commemorate the event.

As they sat together during the ceremony, they appeared to be sharing a joke, as Meghan giggled heartily in response to her grandmother-in-law's comments.
Telegraph article (a really stupid one BTW):
Duchess of Sussex brings out Queen's inner-child: Body language expert analyses their first joint trip - Telegraph

From body language expert, Judi James:
Quote:
"The Queen was the happiest I've seen her in a long time.''
Well, then she hasn't seen much.


Quote:
''They looked like naughty teenagers giggling together at one point."
''Naughty teenagers''? Please, give me a break.


Quote:
Ms James described the monarch as having young body language for a woman of 92.

"She looked positively girlish. When she smiles you can see the young princess coming out. She's got a beautiful childlike smile and her little hands were formed into fists at one point. Perhaps Meghan did bring a little bit more of that out in her.
No, she is like that all the time (although more reserved than she was pre-2013).

--------------------

Someone might have wondered why it was not common for the Queen to bring young family members with her on engagements in the 1980s (yes, I mean Diana and Sarah)?
Well, according to Royal Commentator Victoria Arbiter, it was because the Queen Mother didn't like it. - She meant the monarch should be front and center.
She's probably heard it from her father, Dickie Arbiter (former press secretary to HM), because he said the same thing during the Diamond Jubilee in 2012.

See her talking about it, at 5:35 in this video:


--------------------

And here are some of today's front pages:

The Times

The Mail

The Express

The Mirror
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  #1003  
Old 06-15-2018, 02:52 PM
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I think it would be nice if we spent less time overanalyzing everything Meghan wears, does and says and just took a little more time to acknowledge how remarkable it is that yesterday's engagements even happened. Just two years ago, Meghan was living a very different life, surely not even imagining that she'd ever date a British prince, let alone marry one. And now, here she is, fully embracing her role as a member of the most popular royal family in the world. There's no doubt in my mind that she has had moments where all of this felt a little too daunting or overwhelming but she hasn't pulled back or asked her husband to give her more time before joining the Queen for a day of engagements. I don't think anyone would have blamed her if she said she needed more time to breath, to take it all in. But she has chosen to hit the ground running and imo, has done so with as much poise as one could expect. That some would rather focus on trivial matters is a real shame. She deserves far more credit than criticism.
  #1004  
Old 06-15-2018, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbigail View Post
I think it would be nice if we spent less time overanalyzing everything Meghan wears, does and says and just took a little more time to acknowledge how remarkable it is that yesterday's engagements even happened. Just two years ago, Meghan was living a very different life, surely not even imagining that she'd ever date a British prince, let alone marry one. And now, here she is, fully embracing her role as a member of the most popular royal family in the world. There's no doubt in my mind that she has had moments where all of this felt a little too daunting or overwhelming but she hasn't pulled back or asked her husband to give her more time before joining the Queen for a day of engagements. I don't think anyone would have blamed her if she said she needed more time to breath, to take it all in. But she has chosen to hit the ground running and imo, has done so with as much poise as one could expect. That some would rather focus on trivial matters is a real shame. She deserves far more credit than criticism.
I agree, although I don't see a problem with commenting on Meghan's clothing. I, to put it bluntly, find it quite ridiculous that some are criticising Meghan for enjoying herself. And it's not normally my style to critique other members' opinions in such a manner, but I feel that Meghan is being criticised unnecessarily here. She'll be criticised for looking too glum, but at the same time, will be criticised for being too positive. She can't win. We should instead focus on how nice it was to see Meghan and HM so relaxed and happy with one another. I think Meghan is a refreshing addition to the BRF and I'll look forward into seeing her contribute to "the Firm" in the near future.
As for the car incident; she's a new member of the RF so still has time to learn how things work. I'm sure she's learnt from the mishap.
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  #1005  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:09 PM
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IMHO, Meghan has been told, that if she's unsure about anything, she just needs to ask, and I think she was told this by the Queen herself. Of course I have no proof of this, but IMHO it's the sensible advice and approach. Which she did, and was given an answer, and there was no issue.

I've read about the royals only for a short while, but what has become really clear to me, is that there's no clear protocol in many things some royal followers claim are protocols. Many times it's personal preferences or choices turned to protocols by reporters/royal followers, because there's been no one doing things differently. Meghan was in the company of The Queen, who is fully aware of every protocol out there. She herself told Meghan what to do, and that's it. No protocols were broken, no gaffes were made, because the Monarch herself said what should be done. IMHO, of course.
  #1006  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:13 PM
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I really enbjoyed seeing Meghan together with HM. She did splendidly for a woman born and raised at the Hollywood scene, especially the TV scene. I guess that's the Catholic private School and superb university background comes into play for she behaves so kind and gracefully without falling into Americanisms. I think the headmaster of her old school would have applauded for her good manners in trying to let her elderly grandmother-in-law enter the car first, even though in this situation it was not the done thing. She'll learn to trust the Royal aides over her own good manners. I personally like the spontanous way she reacts and how good humoured she seems to be. IMHO a gold digger would be much more controlled and I have no doubt HM would have been able to spot one from 100 m distance. So, all in all, she really is a nice, refreshing newcomer to the BRF. I absolute adore Catherine Cambridge and Camilla Cornwall, but those two are future queens who carry much more weight on their shoulders when it comes to the future of the monarchy that Meghan Sussex ever will. Both do it splendidly and I'm sure when together, Meghan will be the same role model for modern Royals, even though she reminds me from her temperatment and heritage more of Queen Maxima or Grand Duchess Maria Theresa, who are both beloved by their family and their people. Give Meghan the time and she will develop from the friendly "granddaughter who is learning the ropes" to a perfectly behaved Royal Lady with spunk because she is a kind and intelligent one, who will know exactly when to keep to the rules and when to break them. I just hope she doesn't start reading tabloids and believe in them, for that was IMHO Diana's downfall. But the way she immediately gave up her Piers Morgan-connection when Harry (allegedly) warned her about that one, tells me she is too intelligent to fall for that. And much much older than Diana and with a lot of life experiences fitting to her new situation behind her.
  #1007  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:37 PM
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Catherine's last name isn't Cambridge though ...She's The Duchess of Cambridge ...she would only use a last name if required for legal matters and if then it would be Mountbatten-Windsor...same for Camilla :)


LaRae
  #1008  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Catherine's last name isn't Cambridge though ...She's The Duchess of Cambridge ...she would only use a last name if required for legal matters and if then it would be Mountbatten-Windsor...same for Camilla :)


LaRae

That's the way the British aristocracy and royalty use their titles instead of their family name when they need to have something like a "normal name". Harry was Harry Wales and William was William Wales in the military till they got their own titles. That's why William is now William Cambridge and Harry is Harry Sussex. Other than aristocrats, they don't sign that shortened form of their title, they use only their first name. But if Catherine was not a Royal Duchess but just Her Grace, The Duchess of Cambridge, she'd sign all her letters as Catherine Cambridge.
  #1009  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
That's the way the British aristocracy and royalty use their titles instead of their family name when they need to have something like a "normal name". Harry was Harry Wales and William was William Wales in the military till they got their own titles. That's why William is now William Cambridge and Harry is Harry Sussex. Other than aristocrats, they don't sign that shortened form of their title, they use only their first name. But if Catherine was not a Royal Duchess but just Her Grace, The Duchess of Cambridge, she'd sign all her letters as Catherine Cambridge.
When Harry and William used Wales, it was because they actually had no titles of their own and were using "Wales" as a family designation in place of surname. When they were created royal dukes which is a peerage, They go by "The Duke of XXX" or just their first names. William signs "William" for example and his title is The Duke of Cambridge. Should the occasion arise that they need a surname, it would be Mountbatten-Windsor like we saw for the lawsuit in France.

This might be best moved to the British titles and style thread?
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  #1010  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:03 PM
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If I had to give a guess of what Meghan would fondly call her grandmother-in-law, I would guess that she'd follow Harry's lead and call her "Granny" like he does.
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  #1011  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:10 PM
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I think she’s much more indulgent of George and Charlotte calling her gan-gan than adults calling her granny. Although it’s understood that’s what, William, Catherine and Harry call her.
  #1012  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:19 PM
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I think Meghan would call her ma'am.
  #1013  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terri Terri View Post
I think Meghan would call her ma'am.
Most likely Meghan is calling The Queen, granny. It’s what Catherine calls her.
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  #1014  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:06 PM
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Then too, it depends on the situation. If HM and Meghan are on "duty" and in public, it would be first "Your Majesty" with a curtsy and then "Ma'am" after that. In private is where they'd use the more familiar and personal monikers for each other.

Just makes sense. I'd give my hubby a look that could kill if he called me "Quarterpint" in public even though I think its cute. (I'm to little to be a half pint).
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  #1015  
Old 06-15-2018, 08:18 PM
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Wow, what thread are we in here? Quite the thread drift over negative views...

The Duchess of Sussex and HM the Queen from all appearances had a lovely and memorable outing yesterday. They seem to genuinely enjoy each other's company. What an honor for Meghan to accompany the Queen to Cheshire on the royal train. They must have shared intimate confidences and a very enjoyable overnight trip.

I agree with @Abbigail that this trip with the Queen is a very distinctive honor. The overall significance of Meghan having jumped right into royal duties (even prior to marrying and on her appearances immediately after) with such graceful ease, is being purposely overlooked by attempts to try an knock her down a notch with a focus on bogus nonenities that the Queen herself is surely not giving nary a whisker of concern about. As one royal observer tweeted humorously (and was posted earlier): "...all [critics] can get Meghan on is a wrong door on a car"

Blessings to gracious QEII and the newest member of the royal family, Meghan Duchess of Sussex. They seemed sympatico together yesterday. The royal family is moving forward from strength-to-strength and that's wonderful to witness.
  #1016  
Old 06-15-2018, 08:35 PM
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So who is meant to go in the car first ? Just in case I ever spend the day with the Queen!!!
  #1017  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy- View Post
Prince Phillip is totally irrelevant to this discussion, I would dare say he gets by with a lot more being the Queen's spouse than any other royal (including Charles) would ever dream of. Plus he has some seventy years of doing it correctly, he's allowed to slip every now and then.

Meghan wasn't showing courtesy (not curtesy), she was showing utter confusion and practically begging to be told what to do. IMO that's not okay, she needs to know beforehand what is correct and what is not. Just because you say the royals are more relaxed doesn't make it true, royal etiquette is there for a reason, to show respect for the monarch. IMO it was very disrespectful of Meghan not to know the etiquette and to put HM in a position where she had to diffuse Meghan's gaff in public.

I'd say after 70 years you shouldn't slip up ever


Asking a simple question is not begging. It showed great common sense.
It's not disrespectful in the least.
  #1018  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:08 PM
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Methinks this will go on forever and always. Meghan is foreign, and isn't the in-marrying royal's experience always legend? How many stories there are of princesses marrying into another country's royal house and being unappreciated by her new subjects. Meghan is not royal, of course but she is American. She will never be forgiven that in some quarters.
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  #1019  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy- View Post
HM has good chemistry with everyone in public, it's part of her job as head of the family to appear at ease with those around her. Meghan appeared nonplussed and awkward at the car, it's really not okay not to know the basic rules of royal etiquette no matter if the Queen smoothed it over or not.

Regarding Meghan's demeanor, I have always found her very immature for her age, but I find Harry to be the same way, so they're a good match in that sense.
I don't blame Meghan for looking nonplussed. If they were doing a polite farewell and the left passenger door was opened it would be normal to think HM goes first. But, HM goes last and, if entering from the left, then moves to the right of the vehicle past any other passenger.

Previously Meghan has travelled with Harry in large SUV's and they both re-enter using the same doors they exited. HM's luxury carriage is a whole other kettle of fish!

Whatever Meghan is or is not, I would never call either her or Harry immature for their age. Perhaps a little projecting?
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  #1020  
Old 06-16-2018, 12:59 AM
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Ah, if only ignore worked for quoted portions of messages as well.


It's like she has to be absolutely perfect, but I bet if Meghan did everything perfectly by the most judgmental standard, those standards would shift and probably accuse her of showing off or being too eager to get it right or some such thing.


I mean, "What is your preference?" How dare she? And to the Queen. In public, no less. (Wish there was a needing the vapors emoji) Get the divorce papers ready! Kick her out of the country! And get the Queen a stiff drink or whatever royalty uses to recover from dealing with such atrocity.
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