Your favourite of Henry VIII's Wives?

[Lady Ann]

she was responsable for so much more the just giving us Elizabeth I. she was so smart and well read. she was IMO reponsable for sewing the seed of breaking away from the Roman church. she was the one putting in Henry's mind that he should be head of the church and that he should not answer to any one.... she was a women a head of her time... my favorite of the six by far....

 

[Menarue]

Lady Ann, she did most of these things you say are so smart - unwittingly. She only put the idea that Henry should be head of the church into his head, because she wanted him to abandon his wife of so many years to marry her and make her Queen of England. She got him to completely ignore his daughter Mary, who incidentally at Anne´s instigation was reduced from a Princess to a bastard and made to wait on her baby sister. Anne had absolutely no moral conscience, it is said she treated everyone with disdain. She was not ahead of her time, she was a completely selfish young woman who only thought of herself and how to get what she wanted with no thought to the consequences. She was a great one for intrigue and caused her own brother´s death. She gave birth to Elizabeth but she would have done anything in her power if it were possible to not have her and have a boy.
In the end she was beheaded for a crime she didn´t commit but she was the cause of so much misery, in a way it was not that underserved, by that I mean her downfall not her horrific death.

 

[Lady Ann]

Yes, I know what she did and what she was. I was just smilply stating that IMO she was much more crafty then women of her time ... I do believe she was smart and well read also, I don't think it would have been had any other way by her father...she may have been unwittingly resopnsable but in the end still resposnable ..and shame on Henry for ignoring his daugher and declaring her a bastard, but if I recall he did the same to Elizabeth?? What men will do for the love of a woman in the moment. His morals not questioned by me at all..you have made as always just and wise statements. but who does not like a little adventure in their history she is just a very great part of the story to me .. That is all ... my favorite part of that one ...

 

[Russophile]

What men will do for the love of a woman in the moment.

More like what wouldn't he do for a male heir.

 

[tracapp]

My favourirte Queen is Anne Boleyn. I think she was complex and incredibly fascinating.

Anne was a woman of her time but she caused a precedence for woman by causing the divorce of HenryVIII and Catherine, making it possible for Henry to divorce.

Also Anne was the first Queen to be beheaded for adultery.

Anne caused a lot of intrigue which caused her own downfall and the downfall of her family.

Despite this I still like Anne for her passion and her belief in the reformation of the English Church. The effects of this were felt through the ages in England.

 

[Lady Ann]

yes, Russphile your statement is very true... lol

 

[Menarue]

Yes, I know what she did and what she was. I was just smilply stating that IMO she was much more crafty then women of her time ... I do believe she was smart and well read also, I don't think it would have been had any other way by her father...she may have been unwittingly resopnsable but in the end still resposnable ..and shame on Henry for ignoring his daugher and declaring her a bastard, but if I recall he did the same to Elizabeth?? What men will do for the love of a woman in the moment. His morals not questioned by me at all..you have made as always just and wise statements. but who does not like a little adventure in their history she is just a very great part of the story to me .. That is all ... my favorite part of that one ...

I agree with you completely, Anne Boleyn was the most interesting and fascinating of Henry´s queens, I think she is the one that we think of first too. If anyone suddenly asked you to name the queens I think she would appear first and then we would go in the right order afterwards. I have said before I would love to see a real picture of her although most people of the time said it was her charm which made her so attractive and she had a French way with her which was thought interesting. It was said her sense of fashion was wonderful and that even the sleeve she invented to cover a defect in a finger was taken up by all the women in the court - now that was true flattery.

 

[scooter]

This is one of my favorite subjects. They all have different aspects. Katherine of Aragon, for the aspect that she was absolutely right that according to the laws of the day they were married. Anne Boleyn for managing to hold Henry off for 7 years, who almost certainly was not guilty of what she lost her head for. Jane Seymour for having the bad luck to not only deliver the longed for male Heir, but then to die of purpureal fever. Anne of Cleves, Highly intelligent she managed to live to tell the story of being 'unwifed' by Henry and live a full measure as 'The King's Dearest Sister', Catherine Howard... teenage slut who had the old man slavering, and most likely did deserve the chop for caryings on. Or Katherine Parr, survived her 3rd marriage to an old man, only do die in childbirth within the year of Henry's death.

 

[Zonk]

I too loved The Constant Princess!

I realize its based on actual facts with a TON of fictition involved...but I would like to think that Catherine did in fact die knowing that one of her husbands had truly loved her!

That aside.....makes you kind of wonder how British royal history might have been different if Arthur had lived, Catherine had remained his wife and maybe even provided the desired male child?

Okay..I have started a thread for my new obsession. Please free to share your thoughts http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f165/if-a-chance-to-change-british-royal-history-19611.html

 

[Russophile]

Oh that's cool Zonk! I'm there!

 

[Marino01]

Anne. She was truly a remarkable woman. In the end I suppose she got what she put in.

 

[scooter]

Well, you have to put into perspective the times. It was the duty of the Queen to produce an heir. It's not that Catherine didn't do her duty, the times being what they were, the children usually ended up being stillborn, died just after birth, premature. The conditions being what they were, poor hygeine, possible STD on Harry's part. Poor Catherine was pregnant most of their marriage, Ysbel would know how many times. Y, can you fill us in?
Harry felt he NEEDED an heir to pass the line on--thus the wife hunting. . .

Henry more than likely had syphillis which accounts for all of the mistresses and wives initially getting pregnant and sucessfully delivering the firstborn. This was followed by miscarriages/premature delivery/stillbirths as the disease progressed. It also accounts for the 'weeping' intractable sore on Henry's upper thigh as well as his rages and paranoia mid to later in life. Being one of Henry's Queen was a very dicey proposition. When Cristina, Duchess of Milan was approached about marriage said 'If I had but two two heads I would gladly but one at the disposal of King Henry of Engalnd'.

 

[Kotroman]

Anne. She was truly a remarkable woman. In the end I suppose she got what she put in.

Which Anne? You do realise that there were two of them

My personal favourite is Anne of Cleves. She was a quiet and simple woman. She didn't make a scandal out of the annulment like Katharine of Aragon did and she willingly gave up on her title of queen. Even though Henry gave her several residences, she used only one of them. She remained close to both her step-daughters even after annulment and never remarried and died childless.

An odd choice, isn't it?

My second favourite would be Katharine Parr. She was an intelligent woman who managed the court well and significant huge influence on Henry. She must have been a charming person, seeing that Henry treated her with respect even though she never even got pregnant (and that's what Henry expected from her). Her early death and the possibility that she is the only one of Henry's wives to have descendants today makes me appreciate her even more.

 

[NotAPretender]

Someone upthread mentioned that they voted for Anne Boleyn because she "protected" Mary and Elizabeth from their father. I'm so glad that gross mischaracterization was corrected later in the thread by more knowledgable parties.

Catherine/Katherine of Aragon was my favorite of his wives, Anne my least. One of the reasons was Anne's open cruelty to her stepdaughter Mary, from depriving her of property to forcing her to serve as Elizabeth's literal maid (not Maid of Honor.) It was to Mary's credit that she loved baby Elizabeth, and it was Mary who protected Elizabeth to the best of her ability from the strange interplay of Henry and Anne.

Anne is said to have asked one of her ladies to beg Mary's forgiveness for her treatment of her, as Anne was facing execution.

Anne used her sexual influence to further her own ends, including a Royal marriage and the advancement of family, and gloried in the downfall of her rival, the first wife. History provides a fascinating insight to current life; the more things change, the more that they stay the same.

I have a fondness for Anne of Cleves, for some reason. I think Catherine Howard was the Paris Hilton of her time.

 

[Camilo2002]

Catherine of Aragon.

She was a remarkable Queen, well loved by the people; a great example of morality, integrity and devotion to her daughter and beliefs.

 

[windsorbrides1]

Katherine (with a K not a C) Parr is my favorite. She was the one from whom the future Elizabeth I learned how to rule. She watched how Katherine handled men and Henry in particular. She watched her do the business of government for Henry, and order men around as subjects, while he was at war. She also got her devout Protestantism from Katherine.

 

[Russophile]

Henry more than likely had syphillis which accounts for all of the mistresses and wives initially getting pregnant and sucessfully delivering the firstborn. This was followed by miscarriages/premature delivery/stillbirths as the disease progressed. It also accounts for the 'weeping' intractable sore on Henry's upper thigh as well as his rages and paranoia mid to later in life. Being one of Henry's Queen was a very dicey proposition. When Cristina, Duchess of Milan was approached about marriage said 'If I had but two two heads I would gladly but one at the disposal of King Henry of Engalnd'.

Scooter, I need to ask for references for the syphillis statement. And that's not because I disbelieve you, I'm sure Great Harry had it, it was just that on another forum I threw that out there and some of the posters said "No, it was never proven." Which doesn't mean it wasn't there, just that it wasn't proven through History. Harry had a great many maladies later in life, my God! If I had eaten what he ate at a sitting I think I'd blow up like that guy in the "Meaning of Life" Monty Python movie. The kidney's control your skin and he probably had lousy ones which might account for the sores, etc. Remember, their hygeine wasn't all up to snuff back then.

 

[Menarue]

When I think of Anne of Cleves the word "luck" comes immediately to mind, he thought her ugly and unappealing which gave her the wonderful chance of keeping her head and living a life of luxury, she seemed to be a simple person of simple tastes and was delighted to have survived unscathed what could not have been a very attractive prospect, marriage to the man Henry.

Kathering Parr of his 6 wives I think was the most intelligent and also she the kindest. There was a time when there was a plot against her but as she was intelligent, a kind of Scheherazade, not with stories but with the skill she used to dress his ulcers and make him comfortable which made him keep her near him for more than a thousand nights. There was a palatial plot against her but her intelligence and kindness and goodness helped her come out unscathed. I am glad to hear that she has descendants, and I have always been sorry that she died when she was just starting to be really happy.

 

[RoyalProtocol]

The story of Anne B has always fascinated me, I always felt a pity that she fell out of favour even though she produced one of England's greates monarchs

 

[Menarue]

The story of Anne B has always fascinated me, I always felt a pity that she fell out of favour even though she produced one of England's greates monarchs

I don´t think it was just her falling out of favour, her behaviour made her many enemies also as far as producing one of the greatest English monarchs it was really not her wish, it was pure serendipity, she wanted a boy, and she didn´t contribute (through no fault of her own) anything to Elizabeth´s education.

 

[RoyalProtocol]

I don´t think it was just her falling out of favour, her behaviour made her many enemies also as far as producing one of the greatest English monarchs it was really not her wish, it was pure serendipity, she wanted a boy, and she didn´t contribute (through no fault of her own) anything to Elizabeth´s education.

With this I do agree, however she did have potential.

Henry VIII wasn't exactly the ideal husband so I at times don't blame here for her behaviour though I suppose she should have had the garce to turn a blind eye; though being wife after an affair what could she expect

 

[Menarue]

[

She did have potential, she was a trend setter, extremely attractive and had the King where she wanted him for some time, I think it was her blind ambition that got her into trouble and of course the hurt she felt at being rejected by her last suitor´s family.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I like both Anne and Jane.
Anne because she gave the world Elizabeth and Jane because she was such a change from the fiesty Anne.
x

 

[Menarue]

Jane was sly, in all accounts of her she was said to have been sly and if she hadn´t become pregnant Anne might have been saved to have another try at an heir.
Jane in the end died tragically, this of course was the outcome of childbirth, all too often an occurrence up until fairly recent times. That was the fate of Katherine Parr too.
In a film I saw years ago they had a scene showing the baby Edward´s Christening and Jane was shown as being taken to the ceremony with a very high fever and it was alleged that her death was brought on by negiligence but I find this hard to believe, although everyone would have been more concerned with the baby than the mother.

 

[Kotroman]

When I think of Anne of Cleves the word "luck" comes immediately to mind, he thought her ugly and unappealing which gave her the wonderful chance of keeping her head and living a life of luxury, she seemed to be a simple person of simple tastes and was delighted to have survived unscathed what could not have been a very attractive prospect, marriage to the man Henry.

I wouldn't call her lucky. She was not in danger of losing her head at any point of her life. The worst thing Henry could've done to her is lock her up like he did to Catherine of Aragon, because executing a foreign princess surely was not a good diplomatic decision.

I am glad to hear that she has descendants, and I have always been sorry that she died when she was just starting to be really happy.

Where did you read this? According to all the sources I encountered, she has no descendants today. Her only daughter, Mary, is though to have died before the age of 3 (that's when she disappears from the historical record), while some authors (whose credibility is disputed) claim that Mary survived into adulthood and remained childless. In either way, she couldn't have any descendants today.

 

[Grace Angel]

Definitely Anne kind of got what she deserved. Losing the head over false charges was alittle dramatic. She was manipulative...but she was being used as well. She couldn't marry who she wanted and she was like Whatever!

There was no need for her to be just plain mean to Mary. What a sad child who ended up being a miserly unhappy woman. I wonder what life what have been for her if she didn't have such a miserable childhood. Its a wonder that Elizabeth grew up to be somewhat okay.

Mary I might have been a different person had her childhood been different.. maybe. She certainly got bitter when she was older, but part of it was likely her innate character too. One's childhood isn't everything. Her marriage and endless false hope for a child was putting hope where there was none, really. She knew it was unpopular marriage before maried Philip II. Also, there was her imposing a religion that no longer fit in England on England. She followed her own interests, while Elizabeth followed the interests of her country.

Anne Boleyn one feels was used by her family for power, as well as she had her own ambition. Catharine Howard, her family basically didn't care about her because she was the daughter of a younger son, both parents died when she was a child and she was the ward of her grandmother who didn't do a very good job of watching over her. In Catharine's case, her childhood certainly had much to do with her sad end- Mary I- not quite so much.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Anne Boleyn may not have been the nicest of the six wives but she and Katherine have established themselves above the other four in the public's memory. Katherine undoubtedly because of her prominence in world affairs, as well as her steadfast refusal to grant Henry his most ardent wish; Anne because her ambition cost her life. What might have happened to her if Elizabeth I had been a boy?

I see that the Roman Church is now fishing in Anglican waters for followers. So it goes four hundred plus years after the break.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Anne Boleyn may not have been the nicest of the six wives but she and Katherine have established themselves above the other four in the public's memory. Katherine undoubtedly because of her prominence in world affairs, as well as her steadfast refusal to grant Henry his most ardent wish; Anne because her ambition cost her life. What might have happened to her if Elizabeth I had been a boy?

I see that the Roman Church is now fishing in Anglican waters for followers. So it goes four hundred plus years after the break.

My apologies; I meant Catherine of Aragon, not Katherine Howard

 

[iowabelle]

I always understood that Katherine Parr's daughter by Seymour died. I don't know when, that's sort of always been murky.

Although I probably tend more toward support of the devout Catherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn was a very cultured and educated woman. I think this quality tends to be overlooked by those who think of her as a husband-stealing hussy. (Have to admit some of this "revelation" in my thinking occurred after I realized my English relatives had some connection to AB's religious efforts.)

 

[Marsel]

No one knows when Mary Seymour died.
She was left penniless after her father's execution (Catherine left her entire fortune to her husband, and since he was executed for treason, all his properties were confiscated by the Crown) and was raised by Katherine, Duchess of Suffolk. There is no mention of Mary in English records after 1551, which is mostly believed to mean she'd died by the time (aged 2 or 3).

Some historians offer other theories:

1) Agnesse Strickland suggested that Mary survived to adulthood and married a certain Edward Bushel, member of Queen Anne of Denmark's household. This theory is based solely on the fact that, according to historical records, Edward Bushel was indeed married to a woman whose first name was Mary and who was supposed to be a poor but high-born lady.

2) According to another theory, Mary was no longer mentioned in English records because she was removed to Ireland at the age of 2, where she was raised by a Protestant Harts family. She later supposedly married a member of that family. This theory is based on the fact that the Harts did indeed have an English lady named Mary (whose birth year matches that of Mary Seymour) among their descendants. Some weight to this claim is given by the fact that a possibly Seymour family heirloom (a lozenge-shaped ring inscribed "What I have I hold" - purportedly a gift from Edward to Thomas Seymour) passed down through the descendants of the Harts-Seymour family (that was their actual family name) until the middle of the 20th century, from which point the fate of the ‘heirloom’ is unknown. Since there are no proves of the authenticity of the ring, or indeed, accurate depictions, this claim is debatable at best. However, if Mary Seymour did marry into Harts family, she has quite a lot of living descendants.