Victoria of Hesse and by Rhine, Marchioness of Milford Haven (1863-1950)

[Katrianna]

Thank you Ilana! I've read my excellent reviews of your book and I'll be ordering as soon as I get my next paycheck.

 

[Warren]

Thre is now a thread for The Four Graces in the Royal Library forum.

 

[Mark O]

Title of very elderly lady at Princess Elizabeth's wedding.

Hi, watching the programme about Queen Mary repeated on BBC 2 this past week I was intrigued to learn who the elderly lady is sitting on the sofa is when Prince Charles was being filmed (as a baby, held by Queen Mary), I think she's the same lady in the wedding photo of Princess Elizabeth and Prince Philip, she's standing to the left, but not facing forward as the others in the wedding party are, wearing a long silver/grey outfit and a black hat and bag, anyone tell me who she is please, and her connection to the Royals?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Without seeing the photos specifically being referred to I would assume that the elderly lady was the Marchioness of Milford Haven - Prince Philip's grandmother and from whose apartment in Kensington Palace he left to marry Elizabeth. After the breakdown of his parents' marriage to a large extent she became his effective guardian although Lord Mountbatten, her younger son, George, 2nd Marquis of Milford Haven her elder son tended to be given more of the credit.

She, like her daughter Alice, was born in Windsor Castle. She was also the eldest daughter of Queen Victoria's second daughter Alice and thus the eldest sister of the last Tsarina of Russia, Alexandra.

Again this is based on who I would suspect would be the other elderly lady around when Prince Charles was a baby, because like Queen Mary, Victoria was his great-grandmother.

Having done a quick search for wedding photos of Elizabeth and Philip the lady in silver is most certainly Philip's maternal grandmother - as I suspected - the Marchioness of Milford Haven. She is also the lady seated on the couch opposite Queen Mary and next to Elizabeth at Charles' christening.

 

[MAfan]

Here is a group picture of the wedding of Philip and Elizabeth:
http://i48.tinypic.com/2vaxj0j.jpg
Which lady is the Dowager Marchioness of Milford Haven?

 

[Iluvbertie]

I find it hard to tell in the black and white full group but in this smaller colour one she is the lady on the right in the silvery dress

Mad Hattery! » Blog Archive » The Princess Elizabeth's Wedding: HM The Queen and The Dowager Marchioness of Milford Haven

In both photos she is on the right - in the top photo she is the one in the dark hat and in the bottom coloured photo the silvery dress with the dark hat.

 

[Argyle]

Here is a group picture of the wedding of Philip and Elizabeth:
http://i48.tinypic.com/2vaxj0j.jpg
Which lady is the Dowager Marchioness of Milford Haven?

I'm not even sure she is in that photo. I've examined it carefully and I can't see her and none of the older ladies' clothing seem to match what I've seen her wearing in the other photos I've seen from Princess Elizabeth's wedding such as the ones iluvbertie linked to.

 

[Alexey 1904]

Maybe Princess Victoria is the elderly woman in the wheelchair in the right side of the photo, or else, maybe she's the woman behind the lady in the wheelchair?

 

[MAfan]

No, the two ladies are Princess Marie Louise (the one in the wheelchair) and her sister Princess Helena Victoria, the daughters of Prince and Princess Christian of Schleswig Holstein.

 

[Alexey 1904]

Thank you MAfan for the information. I guess I don't know too much about the distant members of the BRF.

 

[carrief]

I'm not sure if this picture is cropped and some people, including the Dowager Marchioness of Milford Haven have been cropped off. I know there is different wedding group picture in "Philip and Elizabeth" by Gyles Brandreth where she is on the far right.

 

[Mark O]

Thank you for the replies everyone, the Dowager Marchioness of Milford Haven it is then.

 

[Warren]

I suspect these are the photographs Mark was referring to; the wedding of Elizabeth and Philip and the christening of Prince Charles.
The Dowager Marchioness of Milford Haven (née Princess Victoria of Hesse and by Rhine) is on the far right of the first pic and seated on the left in the second.

The lady in blue standing next to Queen Mary in the wedding photo is Prince Philip's mother, Princess Andrew of Greece, née Princess Alice of Battenberg. She was more recognisable perhaps at the Coronation a few year later, when she wore her nun's habit.

v Family Wedding Group, November 1947
> Christening of Prince Charles, December 1948

 

[padams2359]

The 2nd picture above is the only picture I have ever seen in which then Princess Elizabeth looked like she would rather have been any place then where she was.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

In Prince Philip, Philip Eade wrote:

Victoria visited Philip during term time at Cheam, and had him for half terms with her at Kensington Palace. He later credited her with having 'the right combination of the rational and the emotional' in her approach to bringing up children.
​

Was one of Victoria's children premature? Louise or George?

 

[Curryong]

During his engagement to Princess Elizabeth Prince Philip stayed at his grandmother's Kensington Palace apartment, where his mother Alice was also living. His cousin David Milford Haven also moved in. They had rooms in the palace attic and if arriving back late at night they would climb over the roof and in through their bedroom windows to bypass the creaking staircase past their grandmother's rooms.

 

[Missy-]

Was one of Victoria's children premature? Louise or George?

I seem to recall fairly certainly that Louise was premature, even that there was some drama around his birth (? - old, dusty memory). Not so certain about George, I vaguely recall that he was, too.

Victoria was an amazing woman and I've read quite a lot about her, but it's been a while. Think maybe I'll go dust of my copy of David Duff's 'Hessian Tapestry' and curl up with some hot cocoa! Thank you for the inspiration

 

[Gawin]

Yes, Louise was premature.

Source: Ilana D. Miller, The Four Graces: Queen Victoria's Hessian Granddaughters, 2nd ed. (Kensington House Books, 2014), p. 77.

 

[Alison H]

It's quite strange that she was the one who made the "lesser" marriage, for lack of a better way of putting it, to a morganatic royal, whereas her sisters married into the all-powerful Russian and German royal families ... and then look how it all turned out. There's a story, which as far as I know is true, about Queen Mary cancelling her plans so that she could go and comfort Victoria when the news came about the Romanovs being assassinated, which I think was very kind and showed what good friends they were. They must both have been really pleased when their grandchildren got married.

 

[Gawin]

According to Ilana Miller (who quotes Princess Marie Louise’s memoirs), when George V received news of the Imperial family’s fate, he wrote Victoria Milford Haven a letter which Marie Louise delivered to her (at that time Victoria was staying on the Isle of Wight). When she arrived Victoria’s husband Louis decided it would be better if he gave Victoria the letter. After reading it, Victoria went to Marie Louise’s room to thank her but never discussed the contents with her.

Victoria and Queen Mary were indeed friends. Ilana Miller states the Queen helped Victoria financially after Louis’ death. King George V also offered Victoria rooms in Kensington Palace and she and Queen Mary looked them over together to make sure they would be suitable. Queen Mary helped oversee the necessary renovations. The two women visited one another frequently and corresponded by letter whenever Victoria visited her relatives. As the two women grew older they spent much of their time together reminiscing about old days. Queen Mary also kept in touch by letter with Victoria's sister Irene.

 

[Missy-]

It's quite strange that she was the one who made the "lesser" marriage, for lack of a better way of putting it, to a morganatic royal, whereas her sisters married into the all-powerful Russian and German royal families ... and then look how it all turned out. There's a story, which as far as I know is true, about Queen Mary cancelling her plans so that she could go and comfort Victoria when the news came about the Romanovs being assassinated, which I think was very kind and showed what good friends they were. They must both have been really pleased when their grandchildren got married.

I think she was the only one of the four who had much common sense, to put it bluntly. There was no way she was going to get stuck in a royal marriage. She was pragmatic, down to earth, friendly, tolerant and understanding of others. Anne reminds me of her very much.

I have an image in my head of Victoria and Mary going antiquing, they must have been a hoot (and probably a bit overwhelming) to be around, those poor shopkeepers

 

[JR76]

I think she was the only one of the four who had much common sense, to put it bluntly. There was no way she was going to get stuck in a royal marriage. She was pragmatic, down to earth, friendly, tolerant and understanding of others. Anne reminds me of her very much.

I have an image in my head of Victoria and Mary going antiquing, they must have been a hoot (and probably a bit overwhelming) to be around, those poor shopkeepers [emoji3]

Her sister Irene married out of love to Heinrich of Prussia and had a long and happy marriage despite loosing one of their sons as a young boy to hemophilia. Neither of the couple were impressed by court life and lived rather simply at their estate in Hemmelsmark.
Though not an intellectual like her sister they both seem to have shared amicable personalities and strength of character to bear all the tragedies that befell both them and their close family members. The descendants of Alice and Ludvig were an ill-fated bunch to say the least.

 

[Countessmeout]

Indeed, both Irene and Victoria seemed to have made good choices in husbands, and had a happy life.

While Henry's family was no longer in power in Germany, the couple maintained their estate there. Her and Henry were actually nicknamed the amiables by their family, because of their pleasant nature. They were happy, and lived away from court. The Empress Victoria couldn't understand why the couple didn't even bother to read newspapers. They managed happily to remain out of politics and out of the war. Unlike Louis and Victoria, they remained in Germany. Their estate remained intact and was left to their granddaughter upon Irene's death. Sadly they lost two sons to hemophilia, though one did live to 56 and marry, but never had children.

It seems both sisters married well, were happy with their husbands, and due to being away from court, lived through the war.


Victoria was very different from her sister. It took great strength and character for her to marry someone like Louis, and go from the comfort of royal life, to the life of basically a military wife. She educated her kids herself and George called her a walking encyclopedia. She was fearless, she even flew in a zeppelin. There seems a lot of her character in her grandson and even her great-granddaughter Anne from what I read of her.

 

[Missy-]

Her sister Irene married out of love to Heinrich of Prussia and had a long and happy marriage despite loosing one of their sons as a young boy to hemophilia. Neither of the couple were impressed by court life and lived rather simply at their estate in Hemmelsmark.
Though not an intellectual like her sister they both seem to have shared amicable personalities and strength of character to bear all the tragedies that befell both them and their close family members. The descendants of Alice and Ludvig were an ill-fated bunch to say the least.

No slight meant against Irene, she also had a very admirable character in the face of tragedy. But this is the Victoria thread, so I didn't think to mention her as well.

Anne is a great combination of Victoria and Mary, and I think she's passed it on to Zara and Mia, too.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

I got a trust fund from Princess Elisabeth of Hesse and by Rhine.

ASHPODEL, Is the Princess Elisabeth of Hesse and by Rhine Trust Fund located in the United Kingdom?

 

[JR76]

In some very exciting news Princess Victoria's self-penned memoirs is finally to be published by the people at Eurohistory. Long hidden in the archives these memoirs by the sister of the last Empress of Russia promises to be a fascinating read.

https://eurohistoryjournal.blogspot.com/2020/07/new-book-in-works-recollections-by.html?m=1

 

[Alison H]

Oh good! All that side of the family are fascinating.

 

[Curryong]

This is great news. It's a pity though that the memoirs end in 1914. I would have loved to see letters and other communications between Victoria and members of her family during WW1 and correspondence afterwards in the horrible period when the fate of the Russian Imperial Family became known. Victoria wrote a thank you letter to King Alfonzo of Spain for example, praising his efforts to save Nicholas and his family, and contrasting that with George V's response.

 

[JR76]

Victoria wrote a thank you letter to King Alfonzo of Spain for example, praising his efforts to save Nicholas and his family, and contrasting that with George V's response.

According to her granddaughter Pamela Hicks she sent a letter to Lloyd George asking permission to take the four grand duchesses in but had that request denied.

 

[Curryong]

Really? That is very sad. Of course Lloyd George took full responsibility in his memoirs for refusing the Imperial Family sanctuary in the UK but it appears that privately Lord Stamfordham, King George V's Private Secretary raised objections. A complex question.