Victoria/Duke of Kent/Haemophilia - Page 2

tiaraprin · #21 08-20-2005, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wymanda

I presume that is the borish oaf who is married to Caroline of Monaco????????

Yeah, I think so Wymanda!!

:p

**Elspeth** · #22 08-20-2005, 02:14 AM

Well, he wouldn't be King of England, having married a Catholic, if that's any consolation. Anyway, no doubt the Hanoverians would have made different marriages as kings of England from the marriages they made as Electors of a small German house and then ex-rulers, so who knows who the current monarch would be.

Mapple · #23 08-20-2005, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emily62_1

yes, u're right, women are
sane carriers, in fact, what I'm saying here, is that the Duke of Kent should have been himself a carrier, that would mean that in the Hanoverian RF, should have occured, in the centuries be4e QV's birth, some haemophiliac cases btw the Hanover Princes, but I have never heard of any, have u ? we all know about Mendel and his theories, but only if QV's father was a carrier of the gene....
...

Not necessarily; it could have been a sperm mutation in the Duke of Kent, and Viktoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld could have been a carrier of the disease herself.

emily62_1 · #24 08-20-2005, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren

Sorry emily62_1, I can't follow this.
If for whatever reason the young Princess Victoria was passed over for the succession then following the death of King William IV his next surviving younger brother, Prince Ernst August, Duke of Cumberland, would have taken the Thrones of Great Britain (and Hanover).

Due to Salic Law Ernst August became King of Hanover when Queen Victoria became Queen of Great Britain in 1837. This first Ernst August's senior living descendant is today Prince Ernst August (V), Prince of Hanover, Head of the Royal House of Hanover, and it is he who would be King of England, not the Duke of Kent.
.

sure, as I told every1 be4e, I was mislead, I read that Ernst Augustus should be on UK's throne, many say that.....

emily62_1 · #25 08-20-2005, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiaraprin

Yeah, I think so Wymanda!!

:p

I think he's funny,I read that once during an official ceremony, he kissed QEII !!!!!!!!!!!!! he called her cousin, it was clear he was drunk, no1, i read, allows himself or herself to kiss QEII in public, I'd have loved to look at her face !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

emily62_1 · #26 08-20-2005, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiaraprin

George IV died in 1830 when Victoria was 11. King George III died before Victoria's 1st birthday. William IV died a few weeks after Victoria turned 18.

sure, 1830, I get easily confused when it comes to the British Rf in the 1800s.

emily62_1 · #27 08-20-2005, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wymanda

Actually it is not haemophilia that links Victoria undenyably to the Hanoverians, it is porphyria. There is strong evidence that this condition, which was the cause of George III madness, came through the family from Mary Queen of Scots and it is present in the descendants of QV. At least one of her grandaughters was a sufferer and there was some suggestion that so was Princess Margaret. Given E-A's regular outbursts and is recent bout of ill health I wonder if he is also a sufferer?

QV had no porphiria, was she a carrier ? don't know......she was not a Hanover Princess.

Alicky · #28 08-20-2005, 08:00 AM

I just don't understand what a "sane carrier" is. I never heard that terminology used, I thought you might mean someone who carries it without exhibiting the symptoms, a silent carrier. Is that what you meant? :)

Idriel · #29 08-20-2005, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wymanda

Emily,
The Haemophilia gene is carried by the mother. It is present on the X chromosome and as all of us who have studied genetics know you have the
...

strong chance that the gene came from there.

http://www.geocities.com/jesusib/haemophilia.html

Thank you wymanda for that brilliant explanation. Did the men who suffer from this disease have descendants? Or did they die before reaching adulthood?
It's not the subject but since you seams so inform, do you do if the Wittelbach (sp.?) madness was of genetic origin too? If yes, how was it passed? Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alicky

I just don't understand what a "sane carrier" is. I never heard that terminology used, I thought you might mean someone who carries it without exhibiting the symptoms, a silent carrier. Is that what you meant? :)

Yes.That means you carry the gene 'hemophilia' but you do not express the symptoms nor develop the illness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by emily62_1

QV had no porphiria, was she a carrier ?

What is that?

Alicky · #30 08-20-2005, 08:50 AM

The hereditary disease (?) that was alleged to have caused George III's "madness."

Mapple · #31 08-20-2005, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emily62_1

QV had no porphiria, was she a carrier ? don't know......she was not a Hanover Princess.

At present this is an unconfirmed hypothesis that lacks proof.

Mapple · #32 08-20-2005, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idriel

Thank you wymanda for that brilliant explanation. Did the men who suffer from this disease have descendants? Or did they die before reaching adulthood?

A little about the disease. Classic haemophilia is caused by a deficiency of a certain gene located on X chromosome. Females have two of them, and the 'good' gene prevents them from developing the symptoms; of course, there is a very-very slim chance of getting two chromosomes with the 'bad' gene. But we males have only one X chromosome. :(

Haemophiliacs can reach adulthood and have children now; in the 19th century they mostly died before begetting a child (the Duke of Albany is an exception). If a mother is healthy, the boys will be healthy, too; 100% of the girls will be carriers of the disease.

**Warren** · #33 08-20-2005, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wymanda

I presume that is the borish oaf who is married to Caroline of Monaco????????

Wymanda, manners please! EA is the Head of a Royal House!
Just thought of something... When Prince Ernst August married Princess Caroline of Monaco he lost his place in the line of succession to the Crown due to the Act of Settlement: Caroline is Roman Catholic.

So, what would have happened if Ernst August was King of Great Britain? I guess the Prime Minister would have advised him against the marriage, so it wouldn't have occured. In any case Prince Ernst August jr. would be Prince of Wales, so we would still have a Hanoverian spare, plus the younger brother Prince Christian. Just like Wills and Harry. Spooky! :)
.

Mapple · #34 08-20-2005, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren

Wymanda, manners please! EA is the Head of a Royal House!
...

...and an heir to the suspended dukedom of Cumberland, too. :)

**Elspeth** · #35 08-20-2005, 11:49 AM

Quote:

So, what would have happened if Ernst August was King of Great Britain? I guess the Prime Minister would have advised him against the marriage, so it wouldn't have occured. In any case Prince Ernst August jr. would be Prince of Wales, so we would still have a Hanoverian spare, plus the younger brother Prince Christian. Just like Wills and Harry. Spooky!

Well, you're assuming that that branch of the royal family would have made the same marriages all the way down the line that they actually did, which isn't likely. If Victoria had been disqualified for being illegitimate and the Duke of Cumberland had become king, I think there'd have been a quite different set of marriages of the heirs over the years from the ones that did take place. Whoever the Hanover heir would have been, it wouldn't have been the present Ernst August.

iowabelle · #36 08-20-2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wymanda

Actually it is not haemophilia that links Victoria undenyably to the Hanoverians, it is porphyria. There is strong evidence that this condition, which was the cause of George III madness, came through the family from Mary Queen of Scots and it is present in the descendants of QV. At least one of her grandaughters was a sufferer and there was some suggestion that so was Princess Margaret. Given E-A's regular outbursts and is recent bout of ill health I wonder if he is also a sufferer?

I read recently in Wikipedia that Princess Margaret said in the 1970s that Prince William of Gloucester (the current Duke's elder brother) had porphyria. I saw another reference recently saying that Prince William of G. had it (didn't want anyone to think I meant William Wales).

linda85 · #37 08-20-2005, 12:42 PM

Queen Victoria's oldest Daughter, Empress Frederick of Germany was a carrier of the gene for haemophilia because she had one son, Sigismund I beleive was his name, who died of the bleeding disease. I think she also had another son who had it as well. She had eight children and only six survived to adulthood: Wilhelm II, Charlotte, Henry, Victoria, Sophie, and one other daughter who I can't remember. Henry married Irene, a sister of the Empress of Russia, and she had sons who were haemophiliacs too. Irene's mother was Alice of Great Britian who was a daughter of Victoria of England.

None of Empress Frederick's daughters as I know were carriers of the gene because Sophie married into the Greek house and it hasn't shown up there as I know. Another daughter married into the Langravine of Hesse or one German state, and it hasn't shown up there either as I know.

Thanks,
Linda 85

tiaraprin · #38 08-20-2005, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iowabelle

I read recently in Wikipedia that Princess Margaret said in the 1970s that Prince William of Gloucester (the current Duke's elder brother) had porphyria. I saw another reference recently saying that Prince William of G. had it (didn't want anyone to think I meant William Wales).

It has also been said that Princess Margaret had pophryria too.

emily62_1 · #39 08-21-2005, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mapple

A little about the disease. Classic haemophilia is caused by a deficiency of a certain gene located on X chromosome. Females have two of them, and the 'good' gene prevents them from developing the symptoms; of course, there is a very-very slim chance of getting two chromosomes with the 'bad' gene. But we males have only one X chromosome. :(

Haemophiliacs can reach adulthood and have children now; in the 19th century they mostly died before begetting a child (the Duke of Albany is an exception). If a mother is healthy, the boys will be healthy, too; 100% of the girls will be carriers of the disease.

not 100%, Vicky was not a carrier, we don't know about Louise, who had no issue or Helena, who only had daughters.