The Plantagenets (1154-1399)

[Baroness of Books]

Update for the Richard III buffs out there. I just finished reading "The Last Days of Richard III" by a historian, John Ashdown-Hill, which is a somewhat scholarly and didactic book about Richard III's activities in the last several months before his death. I didn't know he was negotiating another marriage after the death of his queen, Anne Neville, but it would make sense since he needed an heir to the throne as his son, Edward of Middleham, had died as well. Most likely, the book claims, his bride would have been the Infanta Joana of Portugal who was also a Lancastrian since John of Gaunt was her great-grandfather through his daughter Philippa who married into the royal house of Portugal. Imagine what the course of English history would have been if Richard lived, re-married and had heirs. And for the descendants of the house of Neville and York on this thread, there's some interesting material on DNA taken from Anne of York, Cecily Neville's daughter, and information about the female-line descendants of Richard and Edward IV into this century. And some of these people live in Canada. Some of the bits in this book are dry reading but altogether it's fascinating stuff.

Also, I'm almost done with Sharon Kay Penman's novel, "Lionheart," and as expected, it lives up to her detailed and meticulous writing. And any novel that features Eleanor of Aquitaine is a bonus for me! The author says in her notes that because of the wealth of the material about Richard I, she's writing a sequel called "The King's Ransom" which is pretty self-explanatory. The sequel will pick up after the Crusade when Richard is on his way home, and all Lionheart aficionados will know what happens to him on his travels. I can't wait for this one!

[Vasillisos Markos]

My dear Baroness of Books,

I did not know there was a wealth of material about Richard the Lionheart. I would find any book about him to be fascinating.

[Baroness of Books]

Dear Vasillisos - Apparently, Sharon Kay Penman has a website and intends to set up a blog where she discusses her research and material for "Lionheart," so you may want to check this out. She writes in her author's note that she utilized a wealth of eyewitness accounts of events from chronicles written by men who accompanied Richard on the Third Crusade, as well as three Saracen chronicles written by men who were there. She says that the closest she ever came to so much eyewitness accounts was Thomas Becket's murder in Canterbury Cathedral. In her acknowledgements, Ms. Penman also lists recommended reading about Richard the Lionheart so you might come across some additional titles there that you haven't read before. I really suggest getting this book if you interested in Richard I; it's available at libraries and very meticulously written. I'm very partial to this author since she's written other dynamic books on the Plantagenets, but unfortunately "A King's Ransom" will be her farewell to this dysfunctional dynastic family.

[PrincessKaimi]

Ms. Penman's book on Lionheart is fairly recent. Glad to hear there's going to be a sequel (about to finish the first trilogy on Henry II).

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by Baroness of Books

Dear Vasillisos - Apparently, Sharon Kay Penman has a website and intends to set up a blog where she discusses her research and material for "Lionheart," so you may want to check this out. She writes in her author's note that she utilized a wealth of eyewitness accounts of events from chronicles written by men who accompanied Richard on the Third Crusade, as well as three Saracen chronicles written by men who were there. She says that the closest she ever came to so much eyewitness accounts was Thomas Becket's murder in Canterbury Cathedral. In her acknowledgements, Ms. Penman also lists recommended reading about Richard the Lionheart so you might come across some additional titles there that you haven't read before. I really suggest getting this book if you interested in Richard I; it's available at libraries and very meticulously written. I'm very partial to this author since she's written other dynamic books on the Plantagenets, but unfortunately "A King's Ransom" will be her farewell to this dysfunctional dynastic family.

My dear Baroness of Books,

Thanks for this information. I will need to check out the website and look into reading some of these books. It has been quite awhile since I delved into any biographies of the Plantagenet Kings.

[Baroness of Books]

You're welcome, but just keep in mind that Ms. Penman writes historical fiction - although researched with a fine toothcomb. Her resources, however, seem very scholarly so those are probably the titles you'd want to check out.

[Vasillisos Markos]

My dear Baroness,

I will keep that in mind. Sometimes I enjoy historical fiction but most times I do not. It seems to work better when there is not that much known about the subject, but more often, it depends on the writing style and skill of the author.

[PrincessKaimi]

Penman is just one teensy step away from being an historian. There are historians that take more liberty with facts, I think (especially when it comes to people's motivations and such). She really pulls out the way dynastic concerns are a motor for history in the middle ages. She does have fictional characters in each of her books - but the main characters are very well developed historical people.

[Baroness of Books]

I absolutely agree; Penman writes about her characters with such authority and knowledge backed up by historical sources and never goes overboard with her depictions the way some of the historical novelists (and historians) do. Even her fictional/supporting characters in all her novels are extremely well fleshed-out. I found her notes and afterword in "Lionheart" were really absorbing to read as well. I finished the novel and look forward to the sequel but with some misgivings since this marks the end of her writing about the Plantagenet dynasty. Hopefully she'll keep us absorbed with another topic in the future.

I finished "Queen by Right," a fictional version of Cecily Neville, mother of Edward IV and Richard III, and while it was an interesting topic I feel the author didn't do it justice. In Sharon Penman's hands, this would have been an insightful work of art.

[Lumutqueen]

Archaeologists in Leicester are due to dig up a car park which used to be the site of a church where his body may be buried.

Michael Ibsen was seen on television, he's apparently a descendant of Richard III.

[Artemisia]

Is this the lost grave of King Richard III? Archaeologists dig under council car park for monarch killed in Battle of Bosworth

Archaeologists are hoping to find the lost grave of a medieval monarch in a dig that is due to get underway today. In what is believed to be the first-ever archaeological search for the lost grave of an anointed King of England, experts from the University of Leicester are set to begin their quest to find the site of a church where it is believed King Richard III was buried in the city more than 500 years ago.

[LadyoftheLake]

We will soon find out......

Richard III descendant present as search for remains begins - Telegraph

in the above link is King Richard III's great nephew who shows (to me) a strong resemblance to his 17 generations back uncle.


Could Richard III be buried in a parking lot? - thestar.com

If King Richard III's body is found a Canadian's DNA will give the researchers their answer.

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Artemisia

Is this the lost grave of King Richard III? Archaeologists dig under council car park for monarch killed in Battle of Bosworth

I didn't see this last week but it sounds interesting.I always assumed that his remains like so many other royals were lost during the dissolution of the monasteries.

[MarkUK]

It is thought that he story about Richard's remains being thrown into the river during the Dissolution in 1538 only began in the early 17th century, 70 years after the alleged event, due to a map maker who couldn't locate the King's tomb so made up the story about his body being lost to cover his failure to pinpoint his grave.

[Artemisia]

New developments...

Breakthrough in the search for King Richard III as archaeologists find 'tantalising clues' to the location of his body

Archaeologists today moved a step closer to finding the remains of King Richard III. They confirmed they have found the Greyfriars friary where he is believed to be buried in the most unlikely of settings - under a council car park in Leicester.

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by MarkUK

It is thought that he story about Richard's remains being thrown into the river during the Dissolution in 1538 only began in the early 17th century, 70 years after the alleged event, due to a map maker who couldn't locate the King's tomb so made up the story about his body being lost to cover his failure to pinpoint his grave.

We'll soon find out!

[LadyoftheLake]

British, Canadian researchers uncover human remains at potential burial site of Richard III

Read more: British, Canadian researchers uncover human remains at potential burial site of Richard III

[An Ard Ri]

If Richard's remains are found and are identified I wonder where he will be buried?

Leicester Cathedral perhaps?

[Artemisia]

King Richard III to get cathedral burial...after his skeleton was found under the car park 500 years after his death

Richard III is finally to receive a burial fit for a king – more than 500 years after he was killed in battle. Remains that archaeologists believe are those of the king are to be buried in Leicester Cathedral if DNA tests prove that the bones are his. If the tests are positive, the king will then be given a burial inside the Cathedral, the Ministry of Justice announced last week.

The decision comes after rows between MPs as to where Richard – the last English monarch to die in battle – should be laid to rest. Some said he should be given a state burial in Westminster Abbey because he was a reigning monarch. Others said the remains should be buried in Worksop, South Yorkshire, the centre of the Plantagenet monarch’s kingdom. But in a parliamentary answer, the Government settled for Leicester Cathedral, a stone’s throw from the car park.

Personally, I think he should be buried in Westminster Abbey, especially since his wife is also buried there.

[Duke-of-Earl]

Originally Posted by Artemisia

King Richard III to get cathedral burial...after his skeleton was found under the car park 500 years after his death
Personally, I think he should be buried in Westminster Abbey, especially since his wife is also buried there.

Completely agree.This is wonderful news