The Plantagenets (1154-1399)


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
I've long stopped reading any new "revelations" about this particular issue - and with a good reason, which has been now confirmed once again. Say what you want about Philippa Gregory's novels (not a fan myself), but she isn't so much more ridiculous than many of these authors, for reasons Alison H listed. To me, she ranks somewhere around the level of Josephine Tey who wanted to absolve the princes' mother from the suspicions that she had made peace with her sons' and brother's murderer for some money and a few balls. Err, a name conspicuously missing from the list of this author who all lay Richardians I've ever encountered swear by? Richard Grey, people?
 
There are a lot of strange theories, most of which would necessitate someone - Margaret Beaufort, or the Duke of Buckingham, or anyone else you care to name - being able to hire an assassin who could just wander into the princes' quarters in the Tower of London, as if it were some sort of public park, and murder them without Richard doing anything about it when he found out. And I never get all the fuss about the Josephine Tey book. People were speculating about the princes' disappearance. If they'd been alive, surely Richard would have produced them to prove that he hadn't murdered them - like Henry VII produced the Earl of Warwick to prove that Lambert Simnel wasn't really him. The idea that they were packed off to live a quiet life in the country makes no sense at all.
 
The future Richard III has always been the prime suspect but fingers have also been pointed at the Lady Margaret Beaufort ,the Duke of Buckingham,the future Henry VII and the Duke of Norfolk.
 
Perhaps because I have never been a fan of Margaret Beaufort, my suspicions have always centered around her. She could have had access to the Tower as well along with a so-called assassin.

It would be really helpful if the Queen would give permission for the bones discovered under a stairway in the Tower to be tested to see if they are the Princes and put this theory of living out their lives elsewhere into adulthood to rest once and for all.
 
I'm not sure where exactly in Westminster Abbey that they were buried but yes I have also thought that they should be tested and given a proper burial if they are indeed the Princes.
 
Perhaps because I have never been a fan of Margaret Beaufort, my suspicions have always centered around her. She could have had access to the Tower as well along with a so-called assassin.

It would be really helpful if the Queen would give permission for the bones discovered under a stairway in the Tower to be tested to see if they are the Princes and put this theory of living out their lives elsewhere into adulthood to rest once and for all.

According to the contemporary reports of where the bones in the WA Abbey urn were found, they most certainly can NOT be those of the sons of Edward IV. Those bones were found ten feet under the stone foundations of a stone staircase outside of the White Tower that was built over 200 years before the boys were born. It took the 17th-century workmen several weeks to dismantle the staircase, and they thought so little of the bones that they were originally thrown on a garbage pile. Several weeks later, someone remembered the story of the boys, and the garbage pile was searched. This is most likely when the "velvet" and animal bones were added to the find.

It defies credulity to think that a hole large enough to be excavated ten feet UNDER a stone staircase could possibly be overlooked by the 300 people who lived in the Tower full-time, or the several hundreds who worked or visited there daily. Someone would have said something, especially after Henry Tudor gained the throne. "Oi, they dug a great big 'ole roight there they did - funny thing that, gov." If Henry could have produced the bodies of the boys (who would have probably still been somewhat recognizable, even after two years) he would have most certainly done so so he could officially blame Richard III. This did not happen. Henry never officially said a word about his brothers-in-law's fate; he let rumor and gossip do the job.

The bones in the urn are most likely those of Roman children, buried in the well-known Roman cemetery that exists under the Tower site.

I don't know what happened to Edward of Westminster or Richard of Shrewsbury, and as of now no one else does either. It's quite possible that neither Richard III nor Henry VII did either - Henry Buckingham was Constable of England at the time and in charge in London, and he could have had them moved on his own authority as Richard was away on his coronation tour when they "disappeared." Buckingham, of course, was executed after he rebelled against Richard that autumn; Richard never spoke to him again. Conversely, Richard may have moved them, separately, before he left and sent them to places known only to a few. We will most likely never know - but hey! They found Richard...
 
On April 25, 1199, John was invested as Duke of Normandy with a crown of golden roses placed on his head.

:rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2:
 
On April 25, 1199, John was invested as Duke of Normandy with a crown of golden roses placed on his head.

:rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2:

By 1204 he had lost it to the French along with most of the other Angevin lands such as Anjou and Maine to Philippe II Augustus of France.

Territorial_Conquests_of_Philip_II_of_France.png
 
In The Plantagenets Dan Jones wrote:
The bishops were unhappy as John of Gaunt had agreed, in exchange for papal mediation at the peace of Bruges in 1375, to allow papal taxation of the English clergy for the first time since the 1340s.
 
In The Plantagenets Dan Jones wrote:
The bishops were unhappy as John of Gaunt had agreed, in exchange for papal mediation at the peace of Bruges in 1375, to allow papal taxation of the English clergy for the first time since the 1340s.

The Treaty of Bruges (1375) was a short-lived truce between the English and French during the 100 Years War.
It was signed in 1375 & renewed in 1376 but sadly fighting broke out again in 1377.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treat... (also known,on 12 March 1376 to 24 June 1377.
 
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