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  #81  
Old 05-03-2011, 06:15 PM
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Some days ago I watched the movie "Bertie and Elizabeth",previously I saw "The King's Speech".The movies were rather good ,but the way Wallis was presented was awful:like a self-absorbed,totally egoistic woman without any sense of duty or respect towards tradition.I do not know how the real Duchess was,but she was depicted as the evil which withdraw Edward from his obligations.Edward was presented rather naive,who hoped for a Crown for his future wife(at first precisely).
The moment that struck me ,was hidden in old-fashioned Queen Marie's words
"To give up that all for woman of no importance!...".
The imporant cause of abdication was not only the establishment,but also the fact that people loved Edward,but hated Wallis("Hands off from our king!")
Though maybe it was better so for all,to make Edward VIII abdicate.I wonder another thing,which would could have been the attitude if Wallis had been younger and surely able to give birth to a child
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  #82  
Old 06-01-2011, 09:06 PM
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She would still have been a woman with 2 ex husbands still living, not something the church or the establishment or most people could have accepted in 1936. Her abillity to bear children was not a major consideration as she had other more important strikes against her.
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  #83  
Old 06-01-2011, 09:49 PM
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Despite the begrudgingly given title, she will always be Mrs. Simpson to me. I believe she was in it for the attention of a man who could give her the world. It seems that his decision to abdicate completely threw her and she was faced with the prospect of entertaining him for the remainder of her life. In this respect I felt a little sorry for her but I still wonder how sado- masachistic their relationship was...
At the same time she was also the woman who provided the excuse for the government of the day to rid themselves of a radical, Socialist leaning king. The Chinese dossier (a document that stated Mrs. Simpson experienced many and varried sexual encounters when in China with then husband Ernest) was deliberately composed by Baldwin's government and the Church of England for the purpos of horrifying Queen Mary and others who disaproved of her.

In all that is said of the abdication, not much weight is put on how Queen Mary felt or how she attempted to talk her son out of it both directly and indirectly.
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  #84  
Old 06-01-2011, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by pgm1952 View Post

In all that is said of the abdication, not much weight is put on how Queen Mary felt or how she attempted to talk her son out of it both directly and indirectly.
I don't know what you mean by this? Do you mean this thread does not discuss Queen Mary's attempts to dissuade David from abidcating? I think it is very clear that Queen Mary could not believe her eldest son would give up the throne for a twice married woman and did all she possibly could to talk him out of it. It came as quite a blow to her but then she rallied in order to show support for Bertie and to see that the monarchy survived this crisis.
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  #85  
Old 06-02-2011, 01:25 AM
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We were lucky to have the Edward abdicate and get a real king, a man who symbolished national resistance to nazi occupation, His Royal Majesty, King, Defender of the Faith, representing British people both at home and overseas in protecting our fatherland, legendary and epochal Bertie, George VI. Without doubt, one of the best monarchs we ever had. We shall be thankful to Mrs. Simpson for saving Britain from a vile man, David, the man who does not deserve the title he beared.
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  #86  
Old 06-02-2011, 02:49 AM
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Edward wanted to be with a woman who was twice divorced that is not good espically in the time frame it took place (1936).Wallis will always
be known as the woman who caused an abdication of the King Edward VIII.
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  #87  
Old 06-03-2011, 07:20 AM
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I believe that Wallis unwittingly facilitated, rather than caused, Edwards' abdication because he would have found it impossible to function without the support of a strong, dominant female. It may have ended by being unfortunate for Wallis that she was that person.....but so much better for the country!!!
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  #88  
Old 06-11-2011, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos View Post
I don't know what you mean by this? Do you mean this thread does not discuss Queen Mary's attempts to dissuade David from abidcating? I think it is very clear that Queen Mary could not believe her eldest son would give up the throne for a twice married woman and did all she possibly could to talk him out of it. It came as quite a blow to her but then she rallied in order to show support for Bertie and to see that the monarchy survived this crisis.
What I meant to say is that in all the documentaries I have seen and heard of the abdication, Queen Mary's role is played down or overlooked. It is taken for granted that she was someone who did not like to make a show of herself and thus her influence on him is something of an aftertought by some historians and film- makers. I agree she was devestated by his discision and did all she could to disuade him but that information is sometimes overlooked by film- makers and historians.
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  #89  
Old 06-12-2011, 12:17 AM
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As usual, speculation rears it's ugly head. None of us (?) was privy to the behind-the-scenes goings-on that led to HM King Edward's, later the Duke of Windsor, abdication. I have also come across recent information stating the Duke and the Duchess of Windsor were supporters of Germany's dictator's actions that led to and sustained World War II. From what I understood, they were supporters of the German dictator from the time he declared himself ruler of Germany until his more-than-welcomed demise in 1945.
I will not matter if this speculative subject is proved untrue, there will always be those who believe it is true. Some people dislike being proved wrong.
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  #90  
Old 06-12-2011, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by George of Wales View Post
We were lucky to have the Edward abdicate and get a real king, a man who symbolished national resistance to nazi occupation, His Royal Majesty, King, Defender of the Faith, representing British people both at home and overseas in protecting our fatherland, legendary and epochal Bertie, George VI. Without doubt, one of the best monarchs we ever had. We shall be thankful to Mrs. Simpson for saving Britain from a vile man, David, the man who does not deserve the title he beared.
While I don't agree that David was actually "vile", I do think you're onto something about Wallis doing Britain a favour, although I see it somewhat differently. I think David was sub-consciously LOOKING for a way out of being King and she happened to come along at the right time to be that way out. Otherwise, why not wait until after the Coronation when Abdication would have had much more serious implications and repairing the damage would have been much more difficult. An "annointed" King, crowned, breaking vows he made in Church, in a ceremony the BRF consider as a "Sacrament" would have been in a much stronger position to foist Mrs. Simpson on the nation. I truly believe after reading quite a lot on this subject that he would have found a way out before the Coronation, Wallis or no. Remember that he tried to talk Mrs. Dudley-Ward into "running away" with him in the 1920's when he was PoW.

Maybe he realised himself that he had not the stuff of which good Kings are made. In that case HE also did the UK a big favour. I can not imagine King Edward VIII leading Britain through WWII, to put it mildly! His brother and his Queen did a magnificent job. I can't think of a single action of George VI or Queen Elizabeth that can be criticised during that span of time.

It's interesting to see how many passions this topic still raises (myself included) considering it happened before most of us were born or even before our parents were born. I think that demonstrates how close the psychological bond is between Monarch and People. It will be a long time, if ever, before there is a change to a Republic. Thank God for that, IMHO!
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  #91  
Old 06-12-2011, 05:30 PM
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I definitely believe everything happens for a reason. What was, really was, HM King Edward's, later the Duke of Windsor, considerations for abdicating in 1936, remained his own throughout his lifetime. and took with him to his grave. I do believe that he passed away in 1972.
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  #92  
Old 06-12-2011, 09:26 PM
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Let's not forget that David, in his day was a wildly popular POW. He was very blonde and very photogenic and was beloved by the subjects. The suppression of the press was not to his advantage.
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  #93  
Old 06-12-2011, 09:32 PM
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Not sure what you mean that the suppression was not to his favor.

Do you think if the British public had a clear understanding and knew about Wallis before the Abdication (cause let's face it was kind of thrown out there), that the British public would have rose to support Edward and by extension Wallis?
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  #94  
Old 06-13-2011, 01:18 AM
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Let's not forget that David, in his day was a wildly popular POW. He was very blonde and very photogenic and was beloved by the subjects. The suppression of the press was not to his advantage.
If by this you mean the press keeping silent on Edward's romance with Mrs. Simpson worked against him, I strongly disagree. While the rest of the world was discussing the romance and the implications for the monarchy, the British government was trying to solve a very serious problem and there seemed to be people in both camps -- pro and con. However, once the press was allowed to publish what was going on, then the public opinion was against the King and this led to his abdication.
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  #95  
Old 06-13-2011, 01:38 AM
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Mrs. Simpson was quite the confidence artist and she loved the affluence the position brought along with the filthy lucre.I think that she also anticipated the vainglory but was precipitated by no HRH . Edward was a weak man generally speaking ; from his political proclivities to his weakness for Mrs. Simpson.He was also a very selfish as he knew his brother George and what it would entail for him to be King.However there may still be missing elements to the abdication that we are unaware of.
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  #96  
Old 06-13-2011, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos View Post
If by this you mean the press keeping silent on Edward's romance with Mrs. Simpson worked against him, I strongly disagree. While the rest of the world was discussing the romance and the implications for the monarchy, the British government was trying to solve a very serious problem and there seemed to be people in both camps -- pro and con. However, once the press was allowed to publish what was going on, then the public opinion was against the King and this led to his abdication.
I must respectfully disagree. King Edward VIII did not even want to TRY and "play the media game" in order to keep both Throne and Wallis. Beaverbrook, Lord Rothermere, was prepared to back Edward to the fullest if the King had shown any interest in trying to fight back against the Establishment via the public opinion supposedly show-cased by Rothermere's publications of the day.

Edward VIII's only interest in keeping the press out was his fear of scaring Mrs. Simpson and ergo - his way out of being King - away. As I said previously, he refused to battle it out when he had a chance of winning as there was quite a bit of support for Edward, at least in the beginning.

I'm sure most of those posting on this subject have read the letters between Wallis and David that have been published. They clearly demonstrate that her desire was to be a type of "Mrs. Keppel", and indeed she was loathe to divorce Ernest Simpson. When "abdicating" became a spoken option, she kept telling David that he needed to forget her and remember he was King. I'm not sticking up for Mrs. Simpson, I'm only mentioning that IMHO, she had no desire to be wife of an ex-King, knew she'd never be accepted as Queen Consort, and therefore acted accordingly. She wanted to be his acknowledged mistress, ignored by the Press, but supremely influential in London Society and (I know I'm repeating myself) occupy the same position as Alice Keppel did during the reign of Edward VII.

I think her sometimes shoddy treatment of the Duke of Windsor, especially during the Jimmy Donahue years in the nineteen-fifties, showed her frustration at having been left in a kind of social "no-man's land"; a wife of a Royal Duke, without the HRH, etc. She felt responsible to recreate his past life as much as possible. The woman even deserves some kind of credit for sticking it out with David until the end, when I don't think her heart was the primary motive on her side, either.

Again, I borrow from "Diarist" - this is just my opinion and I mean no offence to anyone by expressing it. (I'll have to come up with a different way of saying the same thing. .)
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  #97  
Old 06-13-2011, 04:05 AM
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Aliza, I have said this in previous posts so I concur absolutely. I believe of Wallis, I used the expression "hoist by her own petard." I truly feel that she found herself backed into a corner from which there was no escape. I am filled with horror on her behalf when I think of being made to feel responsible, for the rest of his life, for this selfish little man's happiness, but nothing comes free, does it? BUT, I am not Wallis. I feel no need to dominate, I have no desire to cope with subserviance from another, and having delved at length into this couples' psychology I believe they met each others' needs at this very primal level. Not, however, that either of them would have recognized this and after several years, whilst David may still have been supremely happy with their life, I imagine that Wallis, who I imagine was brighter than David, became bored. Famous for her wit, I imagine Jimmy Donahue was a perfect foil for her-he sounds like every middleaged womans' ideal escape-amusing, goodlooking, wealthy, young and GAY!!! It's not hard to visualise the scene, Wallis and Jimmy giggling like naughty children over a shared, secret joke-probably at someone elses expence-that David was not privy to.
Don't worry about expressing opinions that may be different, if we all thought the same way, this thread would grind to a halt.
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  #98  
Old 06-13-2011, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Aliza View Post
I must respectfully disagree. King Edward VIII did not even want to TRY and "play the media game" in order to keep both Throne and Wallis. Beaverbrook, Lord Rothermere, was prepared to back Edward to the fullest if the King had shown any interest in trying to fight back against the Establishment via the public opinion supposedly show-cased by Rothermere's publications of the day.

Edward VIII's only interest in keeping the press out was his fear of scaring Mrs. Simpson and ergo - his way out of being King - away. As I said previously, he refused to battle it out when he had a chance of winning as there was quite a bit of support for Edward, at least in the beginning.

I would argue that that was because he knew that as a constitutional monarch he couldn't appear to be challenging the government.

He was unsatisfactory in many ways but to use the press in that way would have forced the public to choose between the monarch and the government and the government had said that they would actually go to the public and force an election on the issue of the King's marriage - thus clearly putting the monarch at the centre of the political situation - something a constitutional monarch can't do.
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:07 AM
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Do I recall that at one point he was told by ? that he could take a certain course of action, but should he choose so to do his govermment would certainly resign?
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:23 AM
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Aahhh but there is the rub. I've read in several books (and it was mentioned in the King's Speech but sometimes movies take certain liberities)....Edward despite being the Heir and than King, didn't appear to pay attention when he was tutored on the government and didn't understand the limits of his role (i.e. he had no idea what he could and could not do via the appropriate legislation).

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Do I recall that at one point he was told by ? that he could take a certain course of action, but should he choose so to do his govermment would certainly resign?
Yes, he was told that if he married Mrs. Simpson without government approval, the government would resign. Thus it would cause even a greater crisis.

Here's the thing.....Edward shouldn't have asked the Prime Minister to get government approval...once he did that he opened a can of worms.
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