Richard III (1452-1485): Discovery of Remains and Reburial

[Baroness of Books]

Although I'm disappointed that Richard won't be buried in York, I'm relieved that a decision was made and he'll finally be laid to rest. Thanks for posting all these links, An Ard Ri, they've been very informative!

 

[An Ard Ri]

You're welcome,I find it all so interesting and I agree its a pity there will be no York burial.

Richard III: Leicester's plans to reinter king back on track after High Court ruling

Richard III: Leicester's plans to reinter king back on track after High Court ruling | Leicester Mercury
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[An Ard Ri]

Richard III - What's next for Leicester


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTBr4c3I1O0&feature=youtu.be

 

[wyevale]

Leicester was NEVER going to let this chance of a major tourist attraction slip from its grasp...

After all it has NOTHING else to recommend it [except perhaps some notably good 'curry houses'.]

 

[lady of hay]

I haven't posted in months ,but here goes . I am disappointed that the reinterment will not be in York, however this has been displaced by hearing that the two people,we all know who they are, who were instrumental in bringing about the discovery of Richard, may be sidelined by those in Leicester.

People have said that York only wanted Richard as a "tourist attraction". In my experience this city needs nothing else to attract tourists to it. York does not need Richard, Leicester ,however does. All we can hope for is that the last English king of England will be allowed to rest in the peace and dignity he deserves.

 

[Ish]

How is Richard the last English King? In what way were the Tudors not English?

 

[Noble Consort Ming]

How is Richard the last English King? In what way were the Tudors not English?

The Tudors were originally Welsh. Maybe that's what the poster meant.

 

[Baroness of Books]

I had always heard Richard III referred as the last Plantagenet king and the last to die in battle.

 

[Ish]

Of which he would be both. But he's certainly not the last English king, that would be Elizabeth I.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Surely Anne is the last Queen of England?

The Act of Union - officially joining the two kingdoms into one occurred in 1707.

From 1603 - 1707 they monarchs were King/Queen of England and separately King/Queen of Scotland - hence James I and VI and James II and VII - separate numbers for separate monarchies.

 

[Ish]

Anne is the last Queen of England, but I'm not certain I would consider her to be an English queen. William I was King of England, but he himself was a Norman, and it wasn't for some time after the Conquest until the Kings of England were themselves really English.

I would argue similarly of the Stuarts. They may have been Kings and Queens of England, but they weren't necessarily English. James I was Scottish, and I would argue that the other Stuarts were either Scottish or British, but not English.

Similarly, Georges I and II were German Kings of Britain. It wasn't until later on in the dynasty that the Hanovers themselves really became British.

 

[Osipi]

I had always heard Richard III referred as the last Plantagenet king and the last to die in battle.

In fact, the Plantagenet family themselves were a powerful French family that assumed control of the English throne in 1133.

 

[Baroness of Books]

Yes, when Geoffrey of Anjou married the Empress Matilda, Henry I's daughter. And so Richard was the last of his dynasty to rule.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Leicester's King Richard III exhibition attracts visitors from all over the world


Leicester's King Richard III exhibition attracts visitors from all over the world | Leicester Mercury

 

[An Ard Ri]

From the BBC - Richard III: Team rebuilds 'most famous spine'

BBC News - Richard III: Team rebuilds 'most famous spine'

 

[Baroness of Books]

Richard III Really Was Twisted, New Analysis Shows - NBC News

 

[Warren]

Richard III's hunchback would not have held him back in battle - Telegraph
30 May 2014

Richard III's hunchback would not have held him back in battle
​

A good tailor would have been able to hide Richard III's hunchback and it would not have prevented him from taking part in battle,
new research shows.
​

Richard III would have been able to lift his sword and take part in battle, according to new research that has used scans of his skeleton to examine whether his hunchback was a disability. The Plantagenet king suffered from scoliosois, a curvature of the spine. He is portrayed in art and literature as a crippled ‘hunchback’ who walked with a limp and who would have struggled physically in the fray of battle.

But now scans have shown that the curve in his spine was not overly debilitating and the extent of his hunchback have been greatly exaggerated as it could have been hidden by ‘a good tailor.’ Academics at Leicester University have created a 3D model of Richard III’s spine. It shows that although one shoulder was higher than the other, his ‘well balanced’ curve would have meant that his head and neck were straight, and not tiled to one side. The experts conclude that his condition would not have been visible, particularly if he wore well-designed clothes or armour.

Dr Jo Appleby said: “Although the scoliosis looks dramatic, it probably did not cause a major physical deformity. “This is because he had a well-balanced curve. The condition would have meant that his trunk was short in comparison to the length of his limbs, and his right shoulder would have been slightly higher than the left, but this could have been disguised by custom-made armour and by having a good tailor. (The) curve would not have prevented Richard from being an active individual, and there is no evidence that Richard had a limp as his curve was well balanced and his leg bones were normal and symmetric.”

Shakespeare described him, through the words of Queen Margaret, as a ‘poisonous bunch-back’d toad’, an ‘elvish-mark'd, abortive, rooting hog,’ and ‘loathed issue of thy father’s loins.”
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[Warren]

Richard III bones set for 'dignified' Leicester reburial - Telegraph
23 May 2014

Richard III bones set for 'dignified' Leicester reburial

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The remains of Richard III should be given a dignified reburial in Leicester judges have ruled, as the Justice Secretary attacked his distant relatives for wasting public money by challenging to have him interred elsewhere. The High Court ruling means the bones of the last King of England to die in battle are set to be reburied in Leicester Cathedral.

Relatives who make up the Plantagenet Alliance had argued the monarch known as Richard of York should be buried in York Minster and fought to hold a wide-ranging consultation on his final resting place. But three judges said there were no public law grounds for interfering with the plans for reburial at Leicester Cathedral. It was "time for King Richard III to be given a dignified reburial, and finally laid to rest", they said.

Chris Grayling, Justice Secretary, condemned the Alliance legal action, saying it had "taken up so much time and money. I have been very clear from the start that the decision to grant an exhumation licence for Richard III was taken correctly and in line with the law." He said he was “frustrated and angry that the Plantagenet Alliance - a group with tenuous claims to being relatives of Richard III - have taken up so much time and public money. "This case [was] brought by a shell company set up by the Alliance to avoid paying legal costs."

Leicestershire County Council said it would press ahead with its burial plans. Nick Rushton, leader of the council, said: "Next year it will be 530 years since Richard III died at Bosworth - the last King to die in battle - and it will be with great pride that the people of Leicestershire will be part of the ceremony."

 

[An Ard Ri]

King Richard III 'had no limp', says experts who have scanned his bones


King Richard III 'had no limp', says experts who have scanned his bones | Royal | News | Daily Express

 

[LauraS3514]

Richard III's hunchback would not have held him back in battle - Telegraph
30 May 2014

Richard III's hunchback would not have held him back in battle
​

A good tailor would have been able to hide Richard III's hunchback and it would not have prevented him from taking part in battle,
new research shows.
​

.

AARGH!!

Richard III did NOT have a hunchback!! He had scoliosis and the only outward sign was that his right shoulder was a little higher than his left and his torso may have looked a little short. Michael Phelps, Usain Bolt, Elizabeth Taylor and Princess Eugenie all have scoliosis and you wouldn't call any of them the "h" word. I have scoliosis too and unless I tell people no one knows. Did the writer of the story and the editor who chose the headline even read the report?

 

[Baroness of Books]

It seems the image of Richard as a hunchback is so ingrained in lore, as well as in Shakespeare's play, that the hard facts can't refute this misinformation. The Tudors had great PR still holding fast throughout the ages; never let the truth get in the way of a good story!

 

[Warren]

Another example of the validity of the adage "History is written by the victor".
It remains a testament to the effectiveness of Henry VII's masterful propaganda. Almost 530 years after the event, it still holds sway.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Richard III: Leicester's Search for a King



Richard III: Leicester's Search for a King

 

[CyrilVladisla]

King Richard III's wife, Queen Anne died in 1485.
After Anne's death, if he had married his niece, Princess Elizabeth of York, would such a marriage have ensured that Richard remain as King?
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Richard III: In search of the maligned monarch in Leicester | Mail Online

It was interesting to learn a new vocabulary word: Ricardians (Richard-lovers).
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In Kings & Queens of Great Britain, David Soud wrote:

In his role as Lord President of the Northern Council, Richard had functioned as a kind of deputy king, and in that capacity he had not only won widespread acclaim, but learned how he believed the business of governance should be conducted. He was comfortable in a leadership role, and in the early part of his reign held a splendid court.
​

 

[LauraS3514]

King Richard III's wife, Queen Anne died in 1485.
After Anne's death, if he had married his niece, Princess Elizabeth of York, would such a marriage have ensured that Richard remain as King?
​

On the contrary, it would have truly caused the English people to reject him. He never would have married his illegitimate niece under any circumstances; such a thing would have been against his well-known (in his lifetime) piety and morality (he was viewed as somewhat of a prig by his courtiers) and also would have negated the finding by Parliament that the children of Edward IV and Elizabeth Wydville Grey were illegitimate. The English archives containing the debate and the proofs are conspicuously silent due to Tudor purging. Parliament couldn't have Elizabeth's brothers removed from the succession and then turn around and let the King marry her. It's what the Tudor faction accused Richard of planning but it just doesn't compute...

In actuality, Richard had absolutely NO intention of marrying his niece: he was deep in negotiations to marry Princess Joanna of Portugal (and Elizabeth was to marry the future Manoel I of Portugal) as shown by Portuguese records - again, nothing in the English archives thanks to the Tudors. After Bosworth, the new regime put out all kinds of "bad things" about Richard just to blacken his name, the blacker the better. The facts didn't really matter. And then came Shakespeare...

 

[CyrilVladisla]

On the contrary, it would have truly caused the English people to reject him. He never would have married his illegitimate niece under any circumstances; such a thing would have been against his well-known (in his lifetime) piety and morality (he was viewed as somewhat of a prig by his courtiers) and also would have negated the finding by Parliament that the children of Edward IV and Elizabeth Wydville Grey were illegitimate. The English archives containing the debate and the proofs are conspicuously silent due to Tudor purging. Parliament couldn't have Elizabeth's brothers removed from the succession and then turn around and let the King marry her. It's what the Tudor faction accused Richard of planning but it just doesn't compute...

In actuality, Richard had absolutely NO intention of marrying his niece: he was deep in negotiations to marry Princess Joanna of Portugal (and Elizabeth was to marry the future Manoel I of Portugal) as shown by Portuguese records - again, nothing in the English archives thanks to the Tudors. After Bosworth, the new regime put out all kinds of "bad things" about Richard just to blacken his name, the blacker the better. The facts didn't really matter. And then came Shakespeare...

LauraS3514, Thank you for the excellent explanation about Richard having no intention of marrying Princess Elizabeth.
It was interesting to learn that Richard III may have married Princess Joanna of Portugal.
Was an actual wedding date planned?
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[Baroness of Books]

For an interesting look at Richard's final days, I'd recommend this book. It also discusses Richard's plans for his marriage to Princess Joanna as well as that of Elizabeth to Manoel of Portugal.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

For an interesting look at Richard's final days, I'd recommend this book. It also discusses Richard's plans for his marriage to Princess Joanna as well as that of Elizabeth to Manoel of Portugal.

Baroness of Books, Thank you for the name of the book about King Richard III. It looks like interesting reading!
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[An Ard Ri]

Richard III: New tomb design revealed today



Richard III: New tomb design revealed today | Leicester Mercury

And Coffin design!

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/King-s-descendant-create-coffin/story-21247092-detail/story.html

 

[Valerie Rose]

From the Leicester Mercury article:
"The coffin containing the remains of Richard III will be made by his 17th great-grandnephew..."
That seems eminently fitting and gives me quite a frisson.