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  #301  
Old 07-18-2013, 07:36 AM
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Richard III remains: Reinterment delay 'disrespectful'

BBC News - Richard III remains: Reinterment delay 'disrespectful'
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  #302  
Old 07-18-2013, 06:23 PM
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Richard III dig site: Greyfriars gives up more secrets

Greyfriars gives up secrets | Leicester Mercury


King Richard lll will get a raised tomb

King Richard lll will get a raised tomb - Diocese of Leicester
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  #303  
Old 07-19-2013, 02:35 PM
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What's the betting that they approach the Richard III Society for the funds. The bars around it will probably ensure that he is not disturbed again . :-) :-)
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  #304  
Old 07-19-2013, 03:31 PM
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Well they could put him back where they found him and pave over it, then the Richard III Society wouldnt have to worry about anyone asking them for money for his tomb. Even the original plan by the Cathedral would be less costly than this tomb which some section of public opinion seems to think he deserves.
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  #305  
Old 07-22-2013, 04:20 AM
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I don't, think the society would be bothered if they were approached for the money. I should imagine that given the time it took to raise the original amount, 1million may be only slightly more of a challenge! Personally I don't, like either the new design or the society's original, but I can appreciate that I may be alone in that.
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  #306  
Old 07-22-2013, 04:01 PM
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Burial of King Richard III to cost £1 million

Burial of King Richard III to cost £1 million
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  #307  
Old 07-23-2013, 06:43 PM
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Stone coffin to be opened at Richard III site


Stone coffin to be opened at Richard III site - NBC News.com
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  #308  
Old 07-23-2013, 07:51 PM
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How exciting that there are more discoveries to be had at the site, but I suppose the area is rich in archeological finds.
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  #309  
Old 07-24-2013, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Baroness of Books View Post
How exciting that there are more discoveries to be had at the site, but I suppose the area is rich in archeological finds.
Yes indeed,I had thought that everything would have been destroyed when the Friary was dissolved and torn down.From reading more on its history Grey Friars Leicester founding is credited to Simon de Montfort, 6th Earl of Leicester in 1224.
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  #310  
Old 07-24-2013, 06:41 AM
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http://m.yorkpress.co.uk/news/105672...medium=twitter

The Press ‏@yorkpress 7m
Call for Richard III’s remains to come to York
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  #311  
Old 07-30-2013, 01:27 PM
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New mystery at Richard III burial site: A coffin inside a coffin

The mystery coffin at site of Richard III's burial - CNN.com
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  #312  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:03 AM
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I notice the White Queen on BBC has chosen not to show Richard as the out and out killer of the princes, a bit dubious, any Richard III society people here? I think he must have done it, the Tudors were too far removed at the time whereas Richard had the motive and opportunity and proclaimed himself King plus why would the former Queen marry her daughter to the killers of her sons? she must have turned on Richard for the murder
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  #313  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:11 AM
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I notice the White Queen on BBC has chosen not to show Richard as the out and out killer of the princes, a bit dubious,
That would be because the book, The White Queen doesn't state that Richard III was the killer of the two boys. The show is based on the book afterall.
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  #314  
Old 08-05-2013, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by britishboy View Post
I notice the White Queen on BBC has chosen not to show Richard as the out and out killer of the princes, a bit dubious, any Richard III society people here? I think he must have done it, the Tudors were too far removed at the time whereas Richard had the motive and opportunity and proclaimed himself King plus why would the former Queen marry her daughter to the killers of her sons? she must have turned on Richard for the murder

Why did she allow her daughter to spend so much time at court when Richard III was king if she knew he was the murderer of her sons even to the point where there were suggestions that he was thinking about taking Elizabeth as a second wife?

Possible answers -

1. mother didn't know what happened to her sons and had no fears about her brother-in-law

2. she knew what had happened to her sons and that he wasn't involved

3. she was a pragmatist who was more interested in advancing her family than worrying about what had happened to those no longer with her.

Remember we don't actually know what happened to the boys - we don't know that they were murdered at all and if they were we don't know when - they could just as easily have been alive when Henry VII seized the throne and then he had them killed to shore up his own claim along with marrying Elizabeth to join the two sides into one through the first born son being heir to both York and Lancaster - he couldn't do that if the boys were still alive.

Why assume that the loving uncle suddenly turned into a murdering monster and not accept that a doting mother, Henry VII's, who was at court or nearby, couldn't have arranged the murders if it meant clearing the way for her own son to have an easier path to the throne?

Elizabeth, (mother), appears to have supported Lambert Simnel's claim to be her younger son - would she have done that if she knew he was dead? It was after that that she left court - why? Was she forced to do so because she had supported Simnel or was she planning on doing so all along - but she had young grandchildren by then and didn't spend any time with them in the last 5 years of her life?

What happened to the princes is an ongoing story and we simply don't know the answer but there is a lot of theories and a lot of unanswered questions.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:03 PM
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On the heels of your comment, Iluvbertie, I highly recommend that those who have been reading the Cousins' War novels and watching the BBC series get the latest book, "The White Princess," about Elizabeth of York, Henry VII's queen. This deals with Phillipa Gregory's fictional take on Lambert Simnel and Perkin Warbeck, the other claimant to the throne.
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  #316  
Old 08-05-2013, 06:43 PM
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What happened to the princes is an ongoing story and we simply don't know the answer but there is a lot of theories and a lot of unanswered questions.
OK - enough! I admit, it was I who murdered the Princes, in the tower, with the candlestick.

Iluvbertie, I mean no disrespect but my humor is up today. I've always wanted to admit it!
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  #317  
Old 08-05-2013, 07:38 PM
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^^^The perp finally broke down and 'fessed up, I see. It's all these conspiracy theories that finally got to you, I'll bet. The other mystery is what fountain of youth did you drink from that you managed to hang around for six centuries???
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  #318  
Old 08-16-2013, 07:03 AM
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BBC News - Richard III: King's reburial row goes to judicial review

Judical review resulting from challenge on reburying Richard III in LEicester.
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  #319  
Old 08-16-2013, 04:36 PM
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I am a Ricardian and have been since those halcyon days when I was university student and read Josephine Tey's famous and acclaimed 1951 detective novel, The Daughter of Time (from Sir Francis bacon's quote - Truth is the daughter of time not of authority) voted #4 of 100 best mysteries of all time by Mystery Writers of America and voted #1 in the top 100 Crime Novels of All Time, by the equally prestigious UK Crime Writers Association in 1990.

In sum, Tey's arguments are -

  • There was no political advantage for Richard III in killing the young princes. He was legitimately made king.
  • There is no evidence that the princes were missing from the Tower when Henry VII took over.
  • Although a Bill of Attainder was brought by Henry VII against Richard III it made no mention whatsoever of the princes, which it most certainly would have done if Richard had a case to answer. However, there never was any formal accusation, much less a verdict of guilt.
  • Henry VII never produced the bodies of the dead princes for public mourning and a state funeral, which he would have if he could have.
  • The mother of the Princes, Elizabeth Woodville, remained on good terms with Richard.
  • The Princes were more of a threat to Henry VII as the foundation of his claim to the crown was, at best, significantly more remote than theirs and at worst, non-existent.
What history does tells us for certain is that when a Duke, Richard III had a reputation for being an outstanding administrator, good and fair in his dealings, but his reign as king was too short for his potential to be fully realised. However, it can perhaps be glimpsed in his laws and achievements. Many of our present-day ideals such as the Presumption of Innocence, blind justice, and Clear Title, can be traced directly back to King Richard III.

Whatever gloss is put on it, Henry's claim to the throne was quite shonky; to many historians, illegitimate, and to constitutional lawyers, illegal. The Tudors remained ultra-sensitive to claims of illegitimacy and outright regicide until the death of Elizabeth, thus the great William Shakespeare was indeed writing to appease the Tudors in most of his history plays. He would have been quite aware that Richard wasn't a nasty, ugly hunchback, for starters. This perception has been perpetuated by Laurence Olivier's film portrayal of the King, although Olivier was merely acting a part, as it was written.


Today's Royal Family does indeed care about history's prejudice and treatment of Richard III. Our Society's endeavours are perhaps best summed up by our Patron, HRH Richard, Duke of Gloucester:
"… the purpose—and indeed the strength—of the Richard III Society derives from the belief that the truth is more powerful than lies; a faith that even after all these centuries the truth is important. It is proof of our sense of civilised values that something as esoteric and as fragile as reputation is worth campaigning for."

Well said, Your Grace.
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  #320  
Old 08-16-2013, 06:27 PM
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Thank you for those salient points, Polly. I also read Daughter of Time and found it very engrossing and compelling in its arguments.
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