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  #261  
Old 04-14-2013, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
York Minster has been diplomatic and said he can be buried at Leicester. They haven't said they don't want him.
As I understand York did not say he could be buried in Leicester. The Ministry of Justice, who granted the exhumation licence gave Leicester the responsibility of making the decision and they decided on Leicester. What is of chief concern now is what kind of memorial Richard is to have.
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  #262  
Old 04-14-2013, 11:47 AM
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I totally agree. Also let's not forget the fact that Richard was anointed as King in a Catholic ceremony using holy oil. There's no way that monks would not give an anointed Catholic king a Catholic burial. It might have happened in secret and in a rush (hence no coffin/shroud), but the idea that the monks would not have given him a Catholic burial is preposterous.

In addition, Henry VII paid for a marble tomb to be erected inside the Greyfriars church for Richard. The dissolution of the monasteries some 40 years or so later will have done away with all that, but he wasn't simply dumped in a hole and forgotten about.

There's no need for a Catholic funeral which would undoubtedly be hijacked by some of the Roman Catholic activists in the UK as they continue their campaign to undermine at every opportunity the Church of England. Like it or not, these issues are still live in the UK. Richard should have a simple re-interment with a simple Christian ceremony. The local Catholic bishop can go to it if he wants to, but it should be left at that.
wikipedia:
However, Henry denied any immediate rest for Richard; instead the last Yorkist king's corpse was stripped naked and strapped across a horse. His body was brought to Leicester and openly exhibited in a church to show his death. After two days, the corpse was interred in a plain unmarked tomb, within the church of the Greyfriars.

Bibliography
Ross, Charles (1999) [1981]. Richard III. Yale English Monarchs. New Haven, Connecticut; and London: Yale University Press. ISBN 0-300-07979-6.
Baldwin, David (1986). "King Richard's Grave in Leicester". Transactions of the LAHS (Leicestershire Archaeological and Historical Society) (Vol LX-5).

It doesn't look like proper funeral
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  #263  
Old 04-14-2013, 11:53 AM
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I haven't read that York doesn't want him.

Also I am surprised that Henry paid for a tomb for him, makes me go "aww". Then I remember he's kind of the reason for him being dead.
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  #264  
Old 04-14-2013, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lady of hay View Post

As I understand York did not say he could be buried in Leicester. The Ministry of Justice, who granted the exhumation licence gave Leicester the responsibility of making the decision and they decided on Leicester. What is of chief concern now is what kind of memorial Richard is to have.
My point being York, Richard's "home", did not contest the burial in Leicester. Nobody has ever said the York don't want him. Therefore, nobody put up a fight so the MOJ granted permission to Leicester where he was 'discovered'.
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  #265  
Old 04-14-2013, 02:14 PM
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I had always thought Middle ham was Richards home. The info about the re-interment site was passed on to me by a third party .Obviously not as reliable as the Royal Forums:-)
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  #266  
Old 04-14-2013, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
wikipedia:
However, Henry denied any immediate rest for Richard; instead the last Yorkist king's corpse was stripped naked and strapped across a horse. His body was brought to Leicester and openly exhibited in a church to show his death. After two days, the corpse was interred in a plain unmarked tomb, within the church of the Greyfriars.

Bibliography
Ross, Charles (1999) [1981]. Richard III. Yale English Monarchs. New Haven, Connecticut; and London: Yale University Press. ISBN 0-300-07979-6.
Baldwin, David (1986). "King Richard's Grave in Leicester". Transactions of the LAHS (Leicestershire Archaeological and Historical Society) (Vol LX-5).

It doesn't look like proper funeral
For your information:

Quote:
For the next ten years, Richard III’s burial place remained unmarked. In the summer of 1495, however, King Henry VII took somewhat belated steps to provide a fitting tomb for his late rival. A Nottingham alabasterman, Walter Hylton, was commissioned to erect a monument ‘in the Church of Friers aforeseid’; the budget allowed for this work was £50. No detailed description of the tomb exists, but it was of ‘mingled colour, marble’, with a figure of Richard in alabaster. It bore an inscription recording Henry VII’s generosity in paying for it, and asking for prayers for Richard’s soul, ‘t’atone my crimes, and ease my pains below’. This tomb remained in place in the Greyfriars’ church for the next 43years.
BBC - Legacies - Myths and Legends - England - Leicester - The fate of Richard III’s body - Article Page 1

Just because no-one wrote down that the normal funeral rites were performed, it doesn't mean that they weren't. For one thing, the monastery's archives will have been destroyed during the dissolution of the monasteries 40 years later. For another, as Iluvbertie pointed out, it would've been considered obvious in those days that they would've been, particularly when the body was buried inside the Greyfriar's Church by the monks themselves, and so not worthy of comment.
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  #267  
Old 04-14-2013, 07:46 PM
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As someone who does not understand genealogy, is it really 100% full proof to compare DNA of 2 people who lived 500 yrs a part? I think it would be more accurate to compare the bones to Edward IV's and see if they are related. But that's from someone who doesn't understand genealogy. During the examination of the Romanov bones I also thought Nicholas's should be compared to his brother who died before him, but in my head comparing them to someone so close to you in relation is more accurate than a living descendant of today.
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  #268  
Old 04-14-2013, 08:35 PM
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In this particular case, it is 100% proof. Scientists have compared DNA sample from the bones with the mitochondrial DNA of Michael Ibsen, a Canadian-born carpenter who currently resides in Britain. Mitochondrial DNA can be inherited solely down the maternal line, and Ibsen is a direct matrilineal descendant of Anne of York, Richard III’s sister.

Now, it is theoretically possible that two people who don't share ancestry (in the last, say 2000 years) do have similar to same mitochondrial DNA, especially if it was a fairly common one for the area or country. However, the DNA test merely collaborated the already very strong evidence that proved the remains were of Richard III. In other words, if we take separately the mitochondrial DNA testing, the burial ground, the facial reconstruction, the physical characteristics, etcetera - none would be a conclusive proof the bones belonged to the last York King. However, all those pieces of evidence together allow identification beyond reasonable doubt.

As for comparing Richard's DNA to Edward IV's, a Royal permission would have been required for that - it is highly unlikely such a permission would have been obtained. In fact, it is virtually certain the request would be denied. An attempt had been made (before Richard's remains were actually found, I believe) to extract a DNA sequence from a preserved hair of Edward IV. Unfortunately, the attempt was unsuccessful because of degradation of the DNA.
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  #269  
Old 04-27-2013, 06:16 AM
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Richard III Legal Fight to start next week - article from my local paper.
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  #270  
Old 05-22-2013, 07:21 AM
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Letter from Richard III's mother discovered in America!

Letter from Richard III's mother discovered in America | This is Leicestershire
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  #271  
Old 05-22-2013, 07:27 AM
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Letter from Richard III's mother discovered in America!

Letter from Richard III's mother discovered in America | This is Leicestershire
Does it say where he wanted to be buried?
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  #272  
Old 05-24-2013, 07:25 AM
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Richard III was buried in haste

University of Leicester archaeologists say Richard III was buried in haste | This is Leicestershire
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  #273  
Old 05-24-2013, 08:21 AM
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Never? what a ridiculous thing to say.
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  #274  
Old 05-30-2013, 08:12 AM
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King Richard III's modelled head to visit Gloucester


BBC News - King Richard III's modelled head to visit Gloucester
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  #275  
Old 06-11-2013, 06:06 AM
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Richard III head reconstruction set for national tour


BBC News - Richard III head reconstruction set for national tour
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  #276  
Old 06-16-2013, 08:07 AM
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I don't often log on to the forum ,mainly due to time constraints, however I feel that I should make comment on some posts.
The Richard the Third Society has been accused of "abandoning him". The society has no claim on Richard's bones whatsoever.
The money for the dig was mainly raised by Phillipa Langley by way of an appeal to members of the society, after the original financial backer pull out 2 weeks before the dig was due to commence.
Phillipa had to 'badger' the university for a considerable time, almost2years I believe,
before they agreed to the dig.
The money for the tomb has been raised again by the Richard the Third Society, again by donation.

Hope this clears up a few things for people :-)
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  #277  
Old 06-17-2013, 12:17 PM
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I don't know anything about the Richard the Third Society, but I appreciate the hard work of everyone who has been involved in finding and identifying Richard III's body. It is a fascinating story and it has increased our understanding of history. I know that finding and paying for a suitable final resting place is full of political and religious complications. I wish everyone the best.
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  #278  
Old 06-17-2013, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by lady of hay View Post
I don't often log on to the forum ,mainly due to time constraints, however I feel that I should make comment on some posts.
The Richard the Third Society has been accused of "abandoning him". The society has no claim on Richard's bones whatsoever.
The money for the dig was mainly raised by Phillipa Langley by way of an appeal to members of the society, after the original financial backer pull out 2 weeks before the dig was due to commence.
Phillipa had to 'badger' the university for a considerable time, almost2years I believe,
before they agreed to the dig.
The money for the tomb has been raised again by the Richard the Third Society, again by donation.

Hope this clears up a few things for people :-)
Thanks so much for the info. Hopefully the reconstructed head tour will offset some of the costs, moving forward!
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  #279  
Old 06-18-2013, 05:53 PM
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I hope so too,especially as ,I understand ,the Society paid for that too !!! :-)
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  #280  
Old 06-18-2013, 07:25 PM
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But if you look at the University's webpage it was all the University of Leicester's idea, with a little help from "amateurs". To repeat what Lady of Hay said above, the Uni gave no real credit to Phillipa Langley, who conceived the idea, raised the money through the Society and private donations, badgered them for over two years when the Uni had no real interest in looking and then told them EXACTLY where to dig, down to the "R" on the parking lot under which Richard was found. Or to John Ashdown-Hill, the historian who traced the descendants of Richard's sister who provided the DNA match and who helped Phillipa narrow down the area to search. At least Phillipa and the Society are given a shout out in the Antiquity article... Oh, and as was said above, a beautiful tomb design which is already paid for by the RIII Society. (The cathedral has said they favor a new stone marker on the floor - no tomb at all!)
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