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  #41  
Old 07-13-2010, 06:06 PM
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@Dierna

Wow...47 years...I had ever thought, that a pregnancy in this age is impossible. 1922 was much more modern than the middle ages, but for pregnant woman there was really no much care. When this was possible in 1922, it would have been possibly in the middle ages too.
And I think, in te 1920 the medicin was still at the stand of the middle ages...no antibotika and so....so your grand grandmother had luck to ´survive the birth.

@Catherine

Maybe you were right, and Eleanor was really some years younger.
IN the middle ages it was usually to marrie young woman at the age of 11 or 12..with 15 a young woman already count as spinster.
So it is really possible, that Eleanor was 11 or 12, when shes getting married to LOuis.
Her father died then, maybe they made Eleanor a little bit older, that she can inherit the aquitaine without a guradian.
In the middle ages the age for majority was 14...so i guess, maybe they made Eleanor older becaue of that.
And it lasts 8 years, until she geht her first child marie....
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  #42  
Old 07-13-2010, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by EleanorOfAquitaine View Post
There is one thing i often think about....could it be possible, that John wasnt Eleanors bodily child?
Eleanor was almost 46, when he was born...and maternity in that age is very seldom, especially in the middle ages.
Maybe his mother could been one of King Henrys Misstresses....
And when Eleanor goes to the aquitaine, she had taken all children with her, and the only she didnt take with was the one year old John.
I mean, Eleanor had love all her children, but this one she never liked from the hour of his birth.
My explanation for that is, that john maybe wasnt her bodily child.
But tat are no historical fact, it is only my guess.
What are you think about?
The fact that John inherited Aquitaine when Eleanor died indicates pretty conclusively that he was her son, even though his relationship with his mother was a troubled one.

A woman such as Eleanor would never leave her duchy and its wealth to a usurper, especially when her daughter, the Queen of Castile, was still living and was the elder of her two surviving children.

The precedent of a female ruler in Aquitaine had already been established by Eleanor herself, so there is no reason to think she would not have left everything to her daughter if John were not her son. I personally do not believe that Eleanor would have left Aquitaine to any but her own blood.
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  #43  
Old 07-14-2010, 02:35 AM
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@Catherine

I read, that Otto, the grandchild of Eleanor gets the aquitaine in 1197, when Richard still lives. Otto was the new dutch of the aquitaine, so John couldnt geht the aquitaine from his mother.
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  #44  
Old 07-14-2010, 03:35 AM
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Everything that I have read has John getting Aquitaine from his mother and passing the title Duke of Aquitaine to his son Henry III. I can find no reference to Otto getting that title while Richard was alive. My understanding it that she gave the lands to the control of Richard early on but then changed her mind and gave them to John, which triggered a dispute between Richard and John but in the end John inherited the titles and lands from Richard and his mother when first Richard and finally Eleanor died. She strongly supported John's claims once he became King in a number of areas and he made a special trip to see her when she was very ill towards the end of her life.

All the kings of England down to the Black Prince held the title Duke of Aquitaine in French nobility. The title merged with the Crown during the time of the Hundred Years War over 100 years after John's death. Had the title passed to a grandson through a female line - Otto - the kings wouldn't have held the title. There is also a difference to how that title is claimed compared to the title of King of France - which all lists say is a 'claimed' title not a held title.
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  #45  
Old 11-28-2010, 06:24 AM
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Did Richard have any children,so descendants?
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  #46  
Old 11-28-2010, 10:06 AM
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Did Richard have any children,so descendants?
He did not have any legitimate children, but he did acknowledge an illegitimate son, Philip of Cognac (also known as Philippe de Falconbridge).

Philip's mother is unknown, but he was born sometime in the early 1180s and had reached adulthood by the later 1190s. His married his father's ward, Amelia, the heiress of Cognac in Charente. It appears their marriage was short-lived because she died without issue, and the last mention of Philip was in 1204, when he sells the tariffs on the domains of Cognac, Merpins and Jarnac to his uncle, King John of England. He is believed to have died in the early 13th century.

As far as can be known, Philip had no subsequent marriage and no children.. so Richard I has no known descendants.
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  #47  
Old 11-28-2010, 08:42 PM
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And it is rumored that Richard was homosexual which may or may not be true but if true, could possibly explain only one illegitimate child.
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  #48  
Old 04-07-2013, 02:12 PM
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April 6th marked the anniversary of Richard's death in 1199 at the castle of Chalus-Chabrol.

Tomb Effigy at Fontevraud Abbey.


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  #49  
Old 04-07-2013, 02:40 PM
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Author, Sharon Kay Penman, has done an excellent series on the Plantagenants, the last 2 books in the series focus pretty much entirely on Richard. The final book comes out end of this year or first of next year.

On the author's FB page there's a clip that was posted several months ago that shows the 'restored' (on film) images of the effigies of Henry, Eleanor and Richard. It was really neat...probably could find that online.


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  #50  
Old 04-07-2013, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Author, Sharon Kay Penman, has done an excellent series on the Plantagenants, the last 2 books in the series focus pretty much entirely on Richard. The final book comes out end of this year or first of next year.

On the author's FB page there's a clip that was posted several months ago that shows the 'restored' (on film) images of the effigies of Henry, Eleanor and Richard. It was really neat...probably could find that online.


LaRae
Do you mean this one?

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  #51  
Old 04-07-2013, 04:04 PM
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Yes! Isn't that the coolest thing!


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  #52  
Old 04-07-2013, 04:11 PM
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Great clip, and if the photoshopping is true to form Richard was such a handsome man. When the effigy opened its eyes, that really gave me a start! And I just loved the music.

I can't wait for "A King's Ransom," the sequel to "Lionheart" to come out. I hope SKP finds another dynasty or subject to turn her skills to.
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  #53  
Old 04-07-2013, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Baroness of Books View Post
Great clip, and if the photoshopping is true to form Richard was such a handsome man. When the effigy opened its eyes, that really gave me a start! And I just loved the music.

I can't wait for "A King's Ransom," the sequel to "Lionheart" to come out. I hope SKP finds another dynasty or subject to turn her skills to.

Have you read the Welsh series she did? It does tie in since John has a part in it.



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  #54  
Old 04-07-2013, 04:20 PM
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Yes, I did, I think I got my hands on every single book she's written, even her mystery series. I just don't want to see her go away!
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  #55  
Old 04-07-2013, 04:23 PM
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I asked her on FB recently if she was going to start a new series after Ransom and so far no reply!

Elizabeth Chadwick and Allison Weir are worth reading also. Another couple of series along a different type of story....Outlander series by Diana Gabaldon and the Wilderness series by Sara Donati. If you are looking for something to read in the meantime.




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  #56  
Old 04-07-2013, 04:26 PM
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Isn't it a dreadful shame that the tombs at Fontevraud Abbey are empty having being pundered and desecrated twice,first by the Huguenots and then during the French Revolution.

We're lucky that the tombs of Henri,Eleanor,Richard and Isabella survived,the joint tomb of Richard's sister and nephew,Joan of England and Raymond Count of Toulouse were destroyed during the Revolution.
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  #57  
Old 04-07-2013, 04:28 PM
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Yes very much so. It's amazing anything survived ...and no telling what we lost we don't even know about.

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  #58  
Old 04-07-2013, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I asked her on FB recently if she was going to start a new series after Ransom and so far no reply!

Elizabeth Chadwick and Allison Weir are worth reading also. Another couple of series along a different type of story....Outlander series by Diana Gabaldon and the Wilderness series by Sara Donati. If you are looking for something to read in the meantime.


LaRae
Diana Gabaldon lost a lot of her fans after her last Outlander book in the series, which I read avidly. A great disappointment to a fantastic series. She hasn't written anything more except for maybe some Lord John Grey novels. I also read Allison Weir, both her bios and her fiction; quite excellent. And, of course, there's the indomitable Philippa Gregory with her novels of the later Plantagenets and the Wars of the Roses.
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  #59  
Old 04-07-2013, 07:11 PM
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The final (as far as I know) book in the Outlander series is due out next year I think.

Not a fan of the LJG series really. I did read one of them, the one that came out a year or so ago featuring Jamie and LJG but that's it.

I've read all the Gregory books too.


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