The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1  
Old 04-18-2005, 04:44 AM
betina's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 538
Queen Victoria and Haemophilia

I saw a program on Discovery about Queen Victoria as a carrier of the Hemophila gene and Porphyria gene. They traced it back to George 3. and they said that he wasn´t mad but only suffered from Porphyria. They could also trace it back to James 1. and queen Mary of Scots.
Does anybody know if there is present decendants og Queen Victoria who suffers from Hemophelia?
Betina
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-18-2005, 07:21 AM
wymanda's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,432
bettina,

I'm not sure about the porphyria but I dont think that there are any living descendants of Queen Victoria who have the haemophilia gene. The disease found its way into the Spanish, Russian & German royal families through daughters of Princess Alice & Princess Beatrice. Prince Leopold's daughter was Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone who was a carrier. She had one son who had the disease. Princess Victoria (Princess Royal & Empress Frederick of Germany) was a carrier and had one who was a sufferer and one son who married his cousin, Princess Irene of Hesse, who was a carrier. They had two haemophiliac sons. Irene's sister Alix married the Tsar of Russia. Their son Alexis was a sufferer and it is unknown if any of their daughters were carriers. It is likely that at least two of the daughters would have carried the gene. Princess Beatrice's daughter, Victoria Eugenie married the King of Spain and produced two haemophlic sons. It does not appear that any of her daughters were carriers.
Of the families that descend from these princesses, there is no sign of the disease in the Spanish royal family as the present King is descended from a son who did not have the disease. The russian line became defunct in 1917. I do not have any information on the Germans.
__________________

__________________
Everything I write here is my opinion and I mean no offence by it.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-18-2005, 12:17 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,083
Even if there were decendants today, royal famalies may choose to keep that information private.

There is now treatment for hemophlia, but no cure

Treatment involves infusion of the missing blood clotting factor taken regularly as a preventative therapy, or taken when needed to control a bleeding episode.

This must be a difficult disease to live with.

I heard that Princess Margaret suffered from porphyria but that could just be tabloids.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-18-2005, 01:49 PM
MoonlightRhapsody's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Garden Grove, United States
Posts: 934
I can't recall any of Queen Victoria's descendants currently living who has haemophilia or porphyria (http://www.porphyriafoundation.com/about_por/index.html <---Good link about it from the American Porphyria Foundation). However, her current descendants could be carriers for haemophilia, therefore, a good reason why royals shouldn't inter-marry. You need a genetic analysis to find out if you're a carrier for haemophilia. I doubt the royals have had an analysis done but I'm certain they would not publish the results, if ever.
__________________
*~* In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock. *~*
*~* Judge not those who try and fail. Judge those who fail to try. *~*
Sweden's Picture of the Month Represenative
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-18-2005, 02:22 PM
magnik's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,681
Question

I think that I watch it or mybe similar program. But it was said that porphyria start much earlier than George III. Probably it began by Stuarts - James V but that's sure that Mary "Queen of Scots" had it.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-19-2005, 06:44 PM
Alicky's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Somewhere, United States
Posts: 580
Victoria/Duke of Kent/Haemophilia

-Continuing the topic in a new thread as Elspeth suggested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emily62_1
a mutation is quite rare, anyway, her father, whoever he was, did pass the silent gene to her, QV, who was not ill, as women are - sane bearers- and passed the gene to her sons, of course, not to all, she passed it only to 1, Leopold- as for mutation, it should have occured in the Duke of Kent, who, witnesses tell this, was not with his wife when she concieved, she was in Prussia, or a country of the modern Germany- I did not want to believe it, but who should be sitting on the throne, now, is Edward George, Duke of Kent, son of that Duke of Kent, George, who married P. Marina of Greece. He died in 1942.
But it might not have been a silent gene from a parent, de novo cases do occur. Queen Victoria would most likely have been a silent carrier, it's pretty rare to find female hemophiliacs that exhibit the symptoms.

Is it a fact that the Duke of Kent was away from his wife when Victoria was concieved? Who were the witnesses? This is a very interesting tilt to the story. Better than any soap opera that's for sure! :)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-19-2005, 08:13 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ***, United States
Posts: 16,897
The origin of this story seems to be the book "Queen Victoria's Gene" by D. Malcolm Potts, who's an obstetrician. He claims that the most likely way Queen Victoria became a haemophilia carrier is by being the daughter of a haemophiliac man, which the Duke of Kent obviously wasn't. According to reviewers at Amazon, the book doesn't give any evidence for the allegation.

There are other stories about her being the illegitimate daughter of the Duchess of Kent's close friend Sir John Conroy, but I suppose that sort of gossip is inevitable.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-19-2005, 09:14 PM
wymanda's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,432
Quote:
Originally Posted by emily62_1
a mutation is quite rare, anyway, her father, whoever he was, did pass the silent gene to her, QV, who was not ill, as women are - sane bearers- and passed the gene to her sons, of course, not to all, she passed it only to 1, Leopold- as for mutation, it should have occured in the Duke of Kent, who, witnesses tell this, was not with his wife when she concieved, she was in Prussia, or a country of the modern Germany- I did not want to believe it, but who should be sitting on the throne, now, is Edward George, Duke of Kent, son of that Duke of Kent, George, who married P. Marina of Greece. He died in 1942.
Emily,
The Haemophilia gene is carried by the mother. It is present on the X chromosome and as all of us who have studied genetics know you have the following possibilities

+ A female Carrier
+ A female free of the disease
+ A male haemophiliac

If a female carrying the disease were to marry a male with haemophilia the result could be a female child with haemophilia.
Only one of Victoria's daughters was DEFINITELY not a carrier. This was Empress Frederick (The Princess Royal). As Princess Louise, Duchess of Argyll did not have children it is impossible to know if she was a carrier. The disease was passed into other royal families in the following ways

+ Princess Alice - Passed into the Russian royal family by her daughter Alix
+ Princess Beatrice - Passed into the Spanish Royal family by her daughter Ena

It is unsure if Princess Helena was a carrier because she produced healthy children but her daughters had no issue so it is unknown if they inherited the carrier gene from her.

Prince Leopold was a haemophiliac and his daughter Princess Alice (Countess of Athlone) was a carrier (she could not have been anything else). Both of her sons were haemophiliacs but it doesn't appear that her daughter, Lady May Abel-Smith was a carrier.

The following link explains it all and also provides the information on Queen Victoria's mothers family and the strong chance that the gene came from there.

http://www.geocities.com/jesusib/haemophilia.html
__________________
Everything I write here is my opinion and I mean no offence by it.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-19-2005, 09:22 PM
Alicky's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Somewhere, United States
Posts: 580
So I guess it most likely was new case of hemophilia in ole Vicky. :)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-20-2005, 12:18 AM
emily62_1's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Roma, Italy
Posts: 285
Red face

yess, u're right, women are sane carriers, in fact, what I'm saying here, is that the Duke of Kent should have been himself a carrier, that would mean that in the Hanoverian RF, should have occured, in the centuries be4e QV's birth, some haemophiliac cases btw the Hanover Princes, but I have never heard of any, have u ? we all know about Mendel and his theories, but only if QV's father was a carrier of the gene.... well, I know u understand me. It would be easy to know the truth, some members, of British RF , could make his/her DNA compared to Ernst Augustus' DNA, well, I know they would never do it.....
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-20-2005, 12:18 AM
tiaraprin's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Near NY City, United States
Posts: 1,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
The origin of this story seems to be the book "Queen Victoria's Gene" by D. Malcolm Potts, who's an obstetrician. He claims that the most likely way Queen Victoria became a haemophilia carrier is by being the daughter of a haemophiliac man, which the Duke of Kent obviously wasn't. According to reviewers at Amazon, the book doesn't give any evidence for the allegation.

There are other stories about her being the illegitimate daughter of the Duchess of Kent's close friend Sir John Conroy, but I suppose that sort of gossip is inevitable.
I don't believe the Duchess of Kent and Sir John were close then. It was only after the Duke's death did he make himself utterly irreplaceable to the Duchess, realizing Victoria's potential future position. The man was a social climbing, greedy monster!!

Do you think the Duchess and Conroy were lovers as Victoria grew up?? There is a question!!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-20-2005, 12:31 AM
emily62_1's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Roma, Italy
Posts: 285
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by emily62_1
I'll check out, but I read he was.... well, u know, quite old at the time and very ill, don't know which illness he suffered from, but I'll make researches.

George IV was still alive, he died when Victoria was 1 years old, then William IV, her uncle, succeeded, but he had no issue, then was the turn of the Duke of Kent, who had died be4e William IV, so when she was 18, QV succeeded on the throne. It was 1837.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-20-2005, 12:37 AM
wymanda's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,432
Actually it is not haemophilia that links Victoria undenyably to the Hanoverians, it is porphyria. There is strong evidence that this condition, which was the cause of George III madness, came through the family from Mary Queen of Scots and it is present in the descendants of QV. At least one of her grandaughters was a sufferer and there was some suggestion that so was Princess Margaret. Given E-A's regular outbursts and is recent bout of ill health I wonder if he is also a sufferer?
__________________
Everything I write here is my opinion and I mean no offence by it.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-20-2005, 12:38 AM
tiaraprin's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Near NY City, United States
Posts: 1,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by emily62_1
George IV was still alive, he died when Victoria was 1 years old, then William IV, her uncle, succeeded, but he had no issue, then was the turn of the Duke of Kent, who had died be4e William IV, so when she was 18, QV succeeded on the throne. It was 1837.
George IV died in 1830 when Victoria was 11. King George III died before Victoria's 1st birthday. William IV died a few weeks after Victoria turned 18.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-20-2005, 12:51 AM
Warren's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 15,395
Hanover or Kent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by emily62_1
I did not want to believe it, but who should be sitting on the throne, now, is Edward George, Duke of Kent, son of that Duke of Kent, George, who married P. Marina of Greece. He died in 1942.
Sorry emily62_1, I can't follow this.
If for whatever reason the young Princess Victoria was passed over for the succession then following the death of King William IV his next surviving younger brother, Prince Ernst August, Duke of Cumberland, would have taken the Thrones of Great Britain (and Hanover).

Due to Salic Law Ernst August became King of Hanover when Queen Victoria became Queen of Great Britain in 1837. This first Ernst August's senior living descendant is today Prince Ernst August (V), Prince of Hanover, Head of the Royal House of Hanover, and it is he who would be King of England, not the Duke of Kent.
.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-20-2005, 02:14 AM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ***, United States
Posts: 16,897
Well, he wouldn't be King of England, having married a Catholic, if that's any consolation. Anyway, no doubt the Hanoverians would have made different marriages as kings of England from the marriages they made as Electors of a small German house and then ex-rulers, so who knows who the current monarch would be.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-20-2005, 03:21 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by emily62_1
yes, u're right, women are
sane carriers, in fact, what I'm saying here, is that the Duke of Kent should have been himself a carrier, that would mean that in the Hanoverian RF, should have occured, in the centuries be4e QV's birth, some haemophiliac cases btw the Hanover Princes, but I have never heard of any, have u ? we all know about Mendel and his theories, but only if QV's father was a carrier of the gene....
...
Not necessarily; it could have been a sperm mutation in the Duke of Kent, and Viktoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld could have been a carrier of the disease herself.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-20-2005, 07:54 AM
emily62_1's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Roma, Italy
Posts: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
George IV died in 1830 when Victoria was 11. King George III died before Victoria's 1st birthday. William IV died a few weeks after Victoria turned 18.
sure, 1830, I get easily confused when it comes to the British Rf in the 1800s.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-20-2005, 07:58 AM
emily62_1's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Roma, Italy
Posts: 285
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by wymanda
Actually it is not haemophilia that links Victoria undenyably to the Hanoverians, it is porphyria. There is strong evidence that this condition, which was the cause of George III madness, came through the family from Mary Queen of Scots and it is present in the descendants of QV. At least one of her grandaughters was a sufferer and there was some suggestion that so was Princess Margaret. Given E-A's regular outbursts and is recent bout of ill health I wonder if he is also a sufferer?

QV had no porphiria, was she a carrier ? don't know......she was not a Hanover Princess.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-20-2005, 08:00 AM
Alicky's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Somewhere, United States
Posts: 580
I just don't understand what a "sane carrier" is. I never heard that terminology used, I thought you might mean someone who carries it without exhibiting the symptoms, a silent carrier. Is that what you meant? :)
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
british history, duke of kent, haemophilia, porphyria, queen victoria


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Haemophilia In European Royalty kwanfan Royal Genealogy 134 05-23-2014 10:00 PM
Family ties through Queen Victoria SusanE Royal Genealogy 121 03-17-2012 02:48 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge dutch royal history engagement fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games olympics ottoman picture of the month poland pom president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess madeleine princess marilene princess mary princess mary fashion princess of asturias queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague visit wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:33 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]