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  #121  
Old 02-06-2009, 05:53 PM
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My point is that the Royal Genepool was very narrow. If you think about the fact that Victoria's children married into most of the main royal houses of Europe, whose children then intermarried as cousins, it's courting health problems, especially if is an ongoing pattern.
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  #122  
Old 04-05-2009, 02:30 PM
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5 April 2009
Do you have a source to indicate that Kraft and Ferdinand had hemophilia?
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  #123  
Old 04-06-2009, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by J Kendrick View Post
Those same questions are precisely why the hemophilia story is flawed.
This is a complicated matter and I hope I understood it right (please correct me if I’m wrong):
After checking Wikipedia I understand that the germ cells are those cells within the body that produce the eggs or sperms. If the faulty gene originates “almost "exclusivelyin male germ cells", that would NOT mean that the mutation occurs in the male child, as suggested in the quoted post. The mutation would occur during the production of the sperm inside the father. This means that a man who is not haemophilic could, by spontaneous mutation in his germ cells, produce sperm with a defective x-chromosome. So the daughter would be the first carrier of the gene, and male grandchildren could be the first to suffer from haemophilia (with a chance of 50 %), while female grandchildren have a 50% chance to be carriers of the gene.

I think this is backed up by the article Factor VIII gene inversions causing severe hemophilia A originate almost exclusively in male germ cells -- Rosslter et al. 3 (7): 1035 -- Human Molecular Genetics (link posted in #89). It says: “In all 20 informative cases in which the inversion originated in a maternal grandparent, DNA polymorphism analysis determined that it occurred in the male germline. In addition, all but one of 50 mothers of sporadic cases due to an Inversion were carriers.”

This means that a non-haemophilic Duke of Kent could, by spontaneous mutation, have produced sperm with a defective x-chromosome. Thus Q Victoria might well have been the first carrier of the gene, with Leopold being the first family member to suffer from it, and several of her daughters to be carriers. So, there is no need to explain other cases of haemophilia in the family as “misdiagnosed”.

Additionally the Wikipedia article on haemophilia states “Spontaneous mutations account for about 33% of all cases of haemophilia A. About 30% of cases of Hemophilia B are the result of a spontaneous gene mutation”. That is A LOT!! In nearly 1 in 3 cases of haemophilia it seems to be due to recent gene mutation and not due to the genes running in the family!

Of course, this does not rule out other explanations. But spontaneous mutation is not at all an unlikely one, imo.
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  #124  
Old 04-06-2009, 08:21 PM
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royal hemophilia

6 April 2009
That is correct. You might wish to consult my recent book, Royal Maladies: Inherited Illnesses in the Ruling Houses of Europe, trafford.com/08-0070.
arrdoc
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  #125  
Old 04-24-2009, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Camilo2002 View Post
-> KRAFT, 9TH PRINCE OF HOHENLOHE-LAGENBURG -> PRINCESS XENIA OF HOHENLOHE-LANGEBURG -> FERDINAND SOLTMANN.
24 April 2009
Camilo:
Do you have a source to document hemophilia in Ferdinand Soltmann?
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  #126  
Old 08-06-2009, 01:46 PM
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There's no need for anyone to panic about Prince Charles, Prince William, or Prince Harry carrying the gene for hemophilia. They don't have hemophilia, therefore they can't have the gene for it. Here's the thing about males and sex-linked traits. Either a male has the trait, or he doesn't. He can't be a carrier. The gene for hemophilia is on the X chromosome. Males only get one X chromosome, and it has to come from their mother. They get their Y chromosome from their fathers, and the Y chromosome doesn't have the gene for hemophilia on it. Females can be carriers without exhibiting the symptoms of the disease because they have 2 X chromosomes. If only one of the 2 X chromosomes has the gene for hemophilia, then the woman would be a carrier, but not have hemophilia herself.
Unless Diana, Princess of Wales was a carrier for hemophilia (pretty darn unlikely in my estimation), then William and Harry can't have the gene. Queen Elizabeth II isn't a carrier because she is descended from Edward VII, who didn't get the hemophilia gene from Queen Victoria.
I'd suggest that anyone who needs more information about all of this contact their nearest high school biology teacher who can give a quick run down of the patterns of heredity.
Hemophilia is inherited in a similar pattern to color-blindness. I hope this helped slightly. I'd be much clearer if I had my Hemophilia power-point and a white board!
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  #127  
Old 08-06-2009, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by lac2003 View Post
I'd suggest that anyone who needs more information about all of this contact their nearest high school biology teacher who can give a quick run down of the patterns of heredity.
Hemophilia is inherited in a similar pattern to color-blindness. I hope this helped slightly. I'd be much clearer if I had my Hemophilia power-point and a white board!

I have had a number of heated discussion with the biology teachers at my school who all claim that Charles, William and Harry could have the disease as direct descendents from Victoria (through Philip whose grandmother's sister was a definite carrier, whose great-grandmother was also a definite carrier but we don't know if his mother was).

When I argue that Philip never showed any symptons and served in the military the reply has always been 'that is no proof'.

This hasn't been with one biology teacher by the way but multiple over 20 years or so.

They agree that William and Harry wouldn't get it from Diana but could have him from Philip.
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  #128  
Old 08-07-2009, 04:08 AM
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Even if Prince Philip had been secretly haemophilic (which is less than likely), he couldn't have possibly passed it to his children: males can suffer from haemophilia but not carry it.
Same goes for Queen Elizabeth: she is a male-line descendant of Queen Victoria, so she couldn't have had the disease either.
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  #129  
Old 08-07-2009, 06:44 AM
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Some biology teachers are idiots, actually! (especially ones who aren't also closet royalty geeks!) Prince Philip couldn't pass on hemophilia to his sons, and therefore his sons' children simply because he passes on his Y chromosome to his sons. The Y chromosome doesn't carry the gene for hemophilia, so the gene doesn't get passed on to his sons. In the whole family tree of Queen Victoria's direct descendents, the only person who was at no risk of the hemophilia that QV carried was Prince Leopold (Duke of Albany)'s son. He would have only been at risk if his mother was a carrier, and then he would have been the absolutely most unlikest child in this whole line!!
Queen Elizabeth II would have only picked up the gene for hemophilia from her mother's line, which may have been possible, but statistically pretty unlikely. The other thing to remember is that even if a woman is a carrier of hemophilia, each of her sons only (?!) has a 50% chance of inheriting the gene from her.
For only one of QV's four sons to actually have the disease was beating the odds, slightly.
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  #130  
Old 08-07-2009, 04:03 PM
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I'm pretty sure that if Diana Spencer were a likely carrier, that the marriage would not have happened, and there was certainly enough evidence about her family's health issues for this to have been easily spotted.
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  #131  
Old 08-08-2009, 06:34 AM
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Iowabelle, I agree completely. I think Diana was as thoroughly medically checked out before the engagement was announced as the astronauts who landed on the moon!! I also figure that her children and Sarah Ferguson's children have also been DNA tested so that any paternity questions in the family have already been answered.
The big question now is, has Kate Middleton had a thorough medical check yet?
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  #132  
Old 09-19-2009, 12:18 AM
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The truth is that the gene for hemophilia is found in the mitachondrial DNA as is everything but basic paternity. Mitachondrial DNA cannot be passed from Mother to son, but only mother to daughter. That is why, though an immediate blood relation to Tssar Nicholas II, Prince Philip's blood could not be used to identify him. Because on Nicholas' side, Philip is a direct heir by MALE descendants. However, his blood was used to identify Tsarina Alexandra, because he is a direct descendant of her by female descent.
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  #133  
Old 09-19-2009, 04:12 AM
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On Nicholas II maternal side there are only a few people who still have his mitocondrial DNA; they are the granddaughter of his niece Princess Irina Yusupova, four Princesses of SchleswigHolstein, granddaughters of Nicholas' cousin Alexandra of Hannover and the Duke of Fife.
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  #134  
Old 09-19-2009, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by windsorbrides1 View Post
The truth is that the gene for hemophilia is found in the mitachondrial DNA as is everything but basic paternity. Mitachondrial DNA cannot be passed from Mother to son, but only mother to daughter. That is why, though an immediate blood relation to Tssar Nicholas II, Prince Philip's blood could not be used to identify him. Because on Nicholas' side, Philip is a direct heir by MALE descendants. However, his blood was used to identify Tsarina Alexandra, because he is a direct descendant of her by female descent.
I think you are mixing up two completely different issues here.
It is universally acknowledged that the gene for hemophilia is a classic example for a gene that is situated on the x-chromosome. There is no connection between hemophilia and the mitochondrial DNA used for identification of Czars family. And the hemophilia gene did not play a role in identifying them.
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  #135  
Old 09-22-2009, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
On Nicholas II maternal side there are only a few people who still have his mitocondrial DNA; they are the granddaughter of his niece Princess Irina Yusupova, four Princesses of SchleswigHolstein, granddaughters of Nicholas' cousin Alexandra of Hannover and the Duke of Fife.
yes....thats correct mafan !! but didnt the four princesses of schleswig marry and has issue !! i know the eldest princess elisabeth married prince ferdinand heinrich of ysenburg and had a son born in 1976 - prince johann-georg.

what is more interesting is the fact, due to their mitocondrial DNA, some of the adove helped the scientists DR pavel ivanov and peter gill to identify the bones found in sideria as those of the tsar and his family.
the duke of fife donated a blood sample, under the condition that he remained anonymous, but somehow the fact was leaked out.
mrs xenia sfiris also gave a blood sample!!. (the granddaugther of princess irina).
it is not known to myself if the schleswigs were asked and refused give a blood sample or not !!
btw the tsars nephew tikhon kulikovsky who was still living at the time, was asked to give a blood sample, but he refused to cooperate with the scientists. he believed the whole bones business to a hoax !!
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  #136  
Old 09-22-2009, 09:53 AM
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Princess Elisabeth of Ysenburg has 3 children, I think 3 sons, and her youngest sister Sibylla has children too, I guess three sons and a daughter.
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  #137  
Old 09-23-2009, 02:47 PM
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btw the tsars nephew tikhon kulikovsky who was still living at the time, was asked to give a blood sample, but he refused to cooperate with the scientists. he believed the whole bones business to a hoax !!
I was under the impression that Tikon and Guri thought that people didn't believe them that their mother was GD Olga Alexandrovna and that is why they didn't cooperate.
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  #138  
Old 09-23-2009, 04:23 PM
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hi... what gives you this impression...... as i have not heared of this before !! but still i have not really read up on this branch of the russian royal family.........i would very interested to learn more please....
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  #139  
Old 09-23-2009, 07:30 PM
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hi... what gives you this impression...... as i have not heared of this before !! but still i have not really read up on this branch of the russian royal family.........i would very interested to learn more please....
Read Massie: The romanovs: The Final Chapter
and Ian Vorres "The last Grand Duchess."
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  #140  
Old 09-24-2009, 03:37 PM
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update on my post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnydep View Post
btw the tsars nephew tikhon kulikovsky who was still living at the time, was asked to give a blood sample, but he refused to cooperate with the scientists. he believed the whole bones business to a hoax !!
apparently tikhon believed that the scientists was only using the bones as an excuse to get a blood sample from him, to prove that he was not of royal blood.......the scienists spent hours (and their own cash) talking to him and his wife over the phone to convince him otherwise to no avail !!

the burning question is why should anyone wish to prove he was not of royal blood and what are the grounds for anyone to suspect this ?
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