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  #121  
Old 01-13-2010, 10:58 PM
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You are giving too much credit to the Kings who were constitutional monarchs and not autocrats and thus it was the government which was responsible for the debt and for paying it back. The last of the autocrats in Britain was Charles I as Charles II owed his throne to the parliament that invited him back and definitely from William and Mary the government controlled the money. From George III the monarchs didn't get the income of the Crown Estates as that was traded away for the Civil List payments. That the earlier kings were more actively involved in the government of the day is not the same as saying that they had the authority to spend the nation's money - they didn't. In fact since 1660 the Chancellor of the Exchequor - or money-manager in Britian - (and the Treasurer in most Westminster Parliaments - NSW being an exception that I do know of) - must sit in the House of Commons. The monarch is not allowed to enter the House of Commons so that the control of the money and the monarch are separated from each other.

Queen Victoria didn't have to pay off the nation's debt personally but at her accession Britain was well on the way to becoming the first industrial power and thus was able, as the only producer of mass-produced goods, to export goods and technology. Trade was the main reason Britain was not a debtor nation at the end of Victoria's reign but for most of the 20th century has been.

Most countries today are in debt to another country or to its citizens or something.
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  #122  
Old 01-13-2010, 11:25 PM
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Most governments have a "national debt" and the United Kingdom is no different in that respect. Of course, the monarch is merely the figurehead and cannot be assigned the blame for the country's debt. I suspect that the explosion in the industrial revolution brought the UK out of debt.
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  #123  
Old 01-13-2010, 11:25 PM
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Do you have an article online I can read about how much revenue these exports produced? They were 865 million pounds in debt! That was billions back then at the time.

They needed some other source to pay these debts off. And surely they borrowed money from other countries to fund the wars.

Anyone else have any more insight to this?
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  #124  
Old 01-13-2010, 11:29 PM
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Well...were are you getting your number that they were 865 million pounds in debt. That sounds quite excessive.
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  #125  
Old 01-13-2010, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royaltyinNZ View Post
Do you have an article online I can read about how much revenue these exports produced? They were 865 million pounds in debt! That was billions back then at the time.
I suspect you might locate on line articles by googling the Industrial Revolution, economy, United Kingdom or other search terms which you believe will be useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by royaltyinNZ View Post
Although you cite to the article referencing the country's debt, which I am not disputing, I wonder if you might be confusing the country's debt with the royal family's wealth. From what I've read, the Hanoverians were not thrifty, the Georges were probably spendthrifts, and Victoria herself was not well off financially when her father died. Indeed, the Duke of Kent had to borrow money from friends for the trip to England from Germany in order to ensure that his heir would be born on British soil. It was through economies put in place by the Prince Consort, as well as gifts Victoria received from her subjects and investments, that enabled Victoria to leave a sizeable estate to her heir.
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  #126  
Old 01-13-2010, 11:48 PM
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Plus, as I mentioned in another thread when Victoria became queen she no longer had the revenue from Hanover to supplement her income as her Hanover relatives did.

I also recall William IV offering to provide Victoria with an income to set up a separate household from her mother when she turned 16 or 18 I think. It wasn't a lot of money. Maybe 4 thousand pounds a year?
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  #127  
Old 01-14-2010, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Well...were are you getting your number that they were 865 million pounds in debt. That sounds quite excessive.
See the link in my opening post.
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
I also recall William IV offering to provide Victoria with an income to set up a separate household from her mother when she turned 16 or 18 I think. It wasn't a lot of money. Maybe 4 thousand pounds a year?
This is very interesting! Do you recall where you read this?
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  #128  
Old 01-14-2010, 12:18 AM
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I think I read that in Queen Victoria: Born to Succeed by Elizabeth Longford. It wasn't a lot of money. Maybe 4 to 6 thousand pounds for herself and something similiar to set up a separate household. Its worth noting that the purpose of William iV offering that to Vicorira before she reached the age of majority was to try to separate her from her mother, the Duchess of Kent and John Conroy.

The information was delivered with the instruction to deliver personally to Victoria as her mother and Conroy tried to isolate her (see Kensington System) from others. Victoria ended up turning down the request but it didn't matter. I believe she was queen within a year.
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  #129  
Old 01-14-2010, 12:29 AM
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The offer was made about the time of her 18th birthday and as you say she was shortly to become Queen.
She turned it down, or more her mother and Conroy convinced her to turn it down.
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  #130  
Old 01-14-2010, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royaltyinNZ View Post
Do you have an article online I can read about how much revenue these exports produced? They were 865 million pounds in debt! That was billions back then at the time. They needed some other source to pay these debts off. And surely they borrowed money from other countries to fund the wars.
Anyone else have any more insight to this?
The best source would be the Hansard records from Parliament for the years - they include the annual budgets presented by the Chancellor each year to the Parliament.

They don't of course actually have to pay off the debts at all - they simply have to repay enough to satisfy the creditor.

Britain's industrial power brought huge wealth to the country in the latter part of the 19th Century. She was the world's leading power due to both industrialisation and the wealth and extent of the Empire, who helped her gain that wealth by sending her the raw materials that her factories turned into goods to be sold, often back to the colonies.
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  #131  
Old 01-14-2010, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos View Post
Although you cite to the article referencing the country's debt, which I am not disputing, I wonder if you might be confusing the country's debt with the royal family's wealth. From what I've read, the Hanoverians were not thrifty, the Georges were probably spendthrifts, and Victoria herself was not well off financially when her father died. Indeed, the Duke of Kent had to borrow money from friends for the trip to England from Germany in order to ensure that his heir would be born on British soil. It was through economies put in place by the Prince Consort, as well as gifts Victoria received from her subjects and investments, that enabled Victoria to leave a sizeable estate to her heir.
This is an excerpt from that same story I posted about...

"When the Princess Victoria was but eight months old, her father died, leaving his widow and her infant child nothing but an inheritance of debt, and a rank in the realm of Britain which is an inconvenience and a manifest absurdity unless accompanied with great wealth."
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  #132  
Old 01-14-2010, 06:08 AM
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The Duke of Kent as a younger son was reliant on his Civil List payment and any extra his father saw fit to give him but George IV, as Prince Regent and George III weren't overly generous when taking care of the younger children.

The Duke had also accumulated large debts as a single man and Victoria, as his heir, inherited those debts.

These are not the same as the debts of the nation but personal ones.

When Victoria became Queen she immediately was able to access the private income of the Duchy of Lancaster estate and repaid her father's debts some 20 years after his death but they were paid as soon as she could. She was also able to negotiate a suitable Civil List payment to cover the costs of her official duties, which remained in force for the entire 60+ years of her reign with additions for her children when they married, except for Bertie of course who had the income of the Duchy of Cornwall estate to support himself and his family - just as Charles does today.

While she was the heiress presumptive her mother had the income provided in her marriage settlement if she became the widow of the Duke of Kent which was ok but not enormous and certainly not sufficient to really maintain the heiress presumptive, in a manner appropriate to that position. No doubt had the Duke lived he would have been able to get a larger income based on his own position - certainly as William's heir he would have been able to gain a larger income for himself and his family.

Victoria was not left with nothing but rather insufficient to really be presented the way she should have been as the heir.

Unlike Charles today, Victoria, as heiress presumptive didn't have the income of the Duchy of Cornwall estate to support her but only her mother's widow's pension and anything other relatives decided to give the family. John Conroy manage the finances and made sure that the Duchess coped but more as a minor royal household rather than the household of the heiress to the throne. That is what that passage is saying - she had a great position but not the money for that position due to her father's early death and previous debts.

Imagine Charles having to live on the income of say the present Duke of Kent - he would struggle to live the way the heir to the throne is expected to live and to send his kids to the schools and universities expected of his children - not exactly poor but poor but the expected standards of the position.
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  #133  
Old 01-23-2010, 02:31 PM
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Queen Victoria Childhood Playmates?

From what I have read, Victoria had a rather boring and lonesome childhood. Are the any records or diary entries from Victoria that suggest she had a childhood playmate at all?
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  #134  
Old 01-23-2010, 03:14 PM
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From what I understand Victoria's playmates were the children of John Conroy. I think she viewed them favorably when she was fairly young and as she grew older and began to resent Conroy, she viewed them as spies and not true friends.
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  #135  
Old 01-24-2010, 10:28 PM
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Maid of Victoria... Miss Lucy?

Does anyone have any information related to the maid of Queen Victoria, also known as miss Lucy?

Thanks
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  #136  
Old 01-24-2010, 11:51 PM
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Question Queen and Working Mother

I found this in our edition of Newsweek which comes in the mail. It just happens to be online as well. She seems like she was just prone to depression anyway. Possibly bipolar?

Baird: Victoria, Queen and Angry Working Mother - Julia Baird - Newsweek.com
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  #137  
Old 01-25-2010, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royaltyinNZ View Post
Does anyone have any information related to the maid of Queen Victoria, also known as miss Lucy?

Thanks
Queen Victoria had a lot of maids.
Yvonne's Royalty Home Page: Queen Victoria's Ladies-in-Waiting

There is a Miss Lucy Maria Kerr on that list.
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  #138  
Old 02-13-2010, 08:23 PM
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Queen Victoria's passion for nudity goes on display in new art exhibition - Telegraph

A new exhibition is set to challenge the prudish image of Queen Victoria by revealing she had a surprisingly keen interest in the naked body.

She is portrayed as a repressed and melancholy widow who spent much of her life clad in black.

But a new art exhibition will challenge this traditional view of Queen Victoria by revealing her as a passionate, open-minded woman.
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  #139  
Old 02-14-2010, 01:49 AM
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I've always believed that Victoria was not the prude many thought her to be, and that she loved the physical aspect of marriage. Again, it is a pity that Beatrice burned many of the Queen's journals. It would have been fascinating to read them.
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  #140  
Old 03-28-2010, 03:33 AM
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Diaries reveal Queen Victoria's affection for her 'Indian John Brown': report | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

A new archive of letters, photographs and the Munshi's handwritten 'autobiography' shown to The Daily Telegraph, held secretly by his descendants for more than a century, has emerged in India and Pakistan which paints a different picture of Abdul Karim and his relationship with the Queen.
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