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  #81  
Old 11-26-2008, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CarolinaLandgrave View Post
But how long could Britain's textile industry have held out without Southern cotton? The Industrial Age was underway...... even with cotton the Union stole and exported to GB or the cotton from the Blockade Runners, I am sure they were worried.
Especially the highly prized (long staple) Sea Island Cotton, from the islands off the coast of South Carolina and Georgia..... even the French were in a squeeze.
Queen Victoria's moral code may have been against the South and slavery, but as is most things... her "purse" would eventually speak otherwise.
Even though cotton was important for their textile industry, the British also imported a lot of American wheat from the North, which ended up being more important than cotton. Until 1863, the war was not about freeing the slave officially but reuniting the country. After the Emancipation Proclamation, countries could definitively support the North.
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  #82  
Old 11-26-2008, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CarolinaLandgrave View Post
True - in part. We were an agrarian society, but the South could have easily adapted its practices to use freed labor and still make a profit.

They did it after the War - and would have faired well doing so, had not the Reconstruction government been so corrupt and intent on feasting on the defeated Southern populace.
But the necessary changes to the system would have, and did, take time, and I don't think it was something that could all that easily have been done. It involved huge changes at all levels of society. If, and it's pure speculation since it was never going to happen, the Southern states had been minded to free the slaves before seceding, it would have taken years to restructure, and by the time the South had a sustainable and stable economy based on free labour, the main reason for most of the conflicts between the two economies, including States' Rights, would probably have no longer existed. IMO, anyway.

As for Britain's attitude, I happened upon this interesting site which contains an archive of all the Harper's Weekly newspapers published during the Civil War. One of which, dated May 24, 1862, specifically addresses the issue of British support for the Confederacy.

British Sympathy With the Confederacy

Here's another one, on Europe and the American Civil War. Europe and the American Civil War It quotes Gladstone's statement in October 1862, at a time when the CSA's army was doing quite well. "On October 7 the Chancellor of the Exchequer, William E. Gladstone, made a notable speech at Newcastle in which he remarked that no matter what one's opinion of slavery might be, facts had to be faced: "There is no doubt that Jefferson Davis and other leaders of the South have made an army; they are making, it appears, a navy; and they have made what is more than either-they have made a nation." He added, "We may anticipate with certainty the success of the Southern States so far as regards their separation from the North.""

Interestingly, and something that is often overlooked in cursory treatments of the subject, this article also points out that, "Technically, the (Emancipation) proclamation was almost absurd. It proclaimed freedom for all slaves in precisely those areas where the United States could not make its authority effective, and allowed slavery to continue in slave states which remained under Federal control." It was a political tool, but a very effective one.
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  #83  
Old 11-27-2008, 06:32 AM
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OK, while that is interesting, could we get back to Queen Victoria, and maybe her attitudes to the Civil War and to Mr (and Mrs) Lincoln.

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  #84  
Old 11-27-2008, 09:46 PM
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It is possible that Queen Victoria (because she allowed Prince Albert so much active involvement in her job) and Prince Albert were responsible for the North winning the Civil War. No, this is not a joke, nor is it an attempt to taunt Warren. I think, and sincerely hope, it is on topic.

In late 1861 two Confederate envoys were travelling to London on a British mail packet out of Havanna, Trent. US warship San Jacinto discharged a shell acrossTrent's bow and when Trent stopped, she was boarded by an officer with a large armed guard of marines. The CSA envoys and their secretaries were removed and taken to the USA.

The full story is complicated and long, but to say the least Britain was not impressed with what had occurred, it amounting to a breach of international law. Prince Albert was very ill but also very concerned and recorded the events in his diary on 28 November 1861.

One of Prince Albert's last formal acts, if not the last, was the amending of a Draft memorandum from British Foreign Secretary, Lord Russell, to the British Ambassador in Washington, Lord Lyons, changing its wording and tone from bellicose to conciliatory, which quite likely avoided a declaration of war between Britain the and USA. Had war with the USA eventuated, Britain would have undoubtedly recognised the CSA. The USA had sought the support of France in that event, but France declined. It is likely that the USA could not have maintained a war against both Britain and the CSA, and would have ended up recognising the CSA.

Albert died two weeks after drafting the amendments, which were accepted. Victoria later wrote in the margin, "This draft was the last the beloved Prince ever wrote, he was very unwell at the time & when he brought it to the Queen he said, "I could hardly hold my pen"'.

According to Cecil Woodham-Smith in her "Queen Victoria, Her Life and Times - Volume 1, 1819-1861" (there was to be no Volume 2), "The importance of the Prince Consort's amendments cannot be exaggerated. England and the Northern States of America were on the verge of war".

A detailed account of the Trent Affair can be found here: The Trent Affair: How the Prince Consort Saved the United States The article includes more quotes from Queen Victoria, including her acknowledgment that the peaceful resolution was one which "her dear Angel much wished for", and her statement to the Prime Minister in January 1862 that, "The things of this world are of no interest to the Queen, beyond the satisfaction she must experience if Peace is maintained and this country is in prosperity: for her thoughts are fixed above."


I don't know what HM thought about President Lincoln, but Woodham-Smith records that both Queen Victoria and Prince Albert liked President Buchanan when he was American Minister in London.
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  #85  
Old 12-06-2008, 08:15 AM
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Very interesting, thank you for posting!!
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  #86  
Old 12-10-2008, 08:32 AM
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Queen Victoria’s sleigh goes on display at Windsor Castle

Queen Victoria’s sleigh goes on display at Windsor Castle - Times Online
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  #87  
Old 01-14-2009, 08:21 AM
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A heartbreaking letter has revealed how even Queen Victoria couldn't always maintain the stiff upper lip for which her empire was famed.
Britain's longest-serving monarch was renowned as the very embodiment of unshakable dignity and decorum in the latter years of her reign.


Letter reveals Queen Victoria's heartbreak over death of son-in-law Prince Henry | Mail Online
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  #88  
Old 01-15-2009, 09:27 AM
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The trailer for the new film "The Young Victoria" is beginning to appear. The film is due to be released in March.
One of the film's producers is Sarah, Duchess of York, and Princess Beatrice has a cameo as a lady-in-waiting during the Coronation scene.

The thread for discussion of the film can be found in the Royal Library, here.
I've added the trailer, which is worth a look.
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  #89  
Old 01-16-2009, 01:18 AM
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Re: Another article from the Telegraph.

Queen Victoria's 'overwhelming sorrow' at death of son-in-law revealed in letter - Telegraph
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  #90  
Old 01-28-2009, 08:03 PM
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Many of the royals left the child rearing to the wife, depinding on the wife. Some left it to the nurses and nannys that they all had. It was said of QV that she would give her oldest 4 their baths and put then to bed everynight. After that she said that she did not have time. After the 5th one she did not even do bath time.
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  #91  
Old 01-29-2009, 03:53 AM
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That is interesting and surprising to me colynsmomma.

I always understood Prince Albert was the more involved and `hands on` parent and that Queen Victoria was not terribly interested in her children as young babies, generally preferring their company when they were older and could hold a conversation with her. I would be interested to know where you heard about her bathing and putting to bed her older children.
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  #93  
Old 03-05-2009, 08:25 AM
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Posts about the new film "The Young Victoria" have been moved to "The Young Victoria" thread in the Royal Library Forum.
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  #94  
Old 03-06-2009, 06:11 AM
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Constitutional Implication of Queen Victoria's Illigitmacy

Several recent media reports have suggested the Her Late Majesty Queen Victoria may have been illigetimate and not the blood daughter of The Duke of Kent.

I would like peoples opinions of the constitutional implication of her possible illigitmacy, not debates on whether or not she was or wasn't, just a look at 1. What course the monarchy could have taken and 2. the leaglity of her reign and subsequent reigns.

I am in no way bringing into question the present Queen and this is purely for debate not to try and undermine our monarchy.
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  #95  
Old 03-06-2009, 06:31 AM
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I am no constitutional scholar but it would have no effect on her right to reign because per the law a child born in a legal marriage is considered the father's unless the parents claim otherwise and since the Duke and Duchess of Kent never claimed otherwise....

Same thing goes for the "rumours" of Harry being James Hewitt's son. Unless, Charles claims otherwise legally Harry is Charles's son and third in line to the throne...
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  #96  
Old 03-06-2009, 07:15 AM
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. What course the monarchy could have taken?
Caroline of Monaco would be the queen of the Uk today.
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  #97  
Old 03-06-2009, 04:17 PM
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Caroline of Monaco would be the queen of the Uk today.
Probably not, because of the Catholic thing. But any good Protestant princess would have become queen.
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  #98  
Old 03-06-2009, 05:53 PM
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Caroline of Monaco would be the queen of the Uk today.
No, Caroline's husband would lose the throne upon their marriage. Caroline's eldest step-son Ernest Augustus would reign as Ernest Augustus VI today had Queen Victoria's father disputed her paternity.
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:54 AM
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No, Caroline's husband would lose the throne upon their marriage. Caroline's eldest step-son Ernest Augustus would reign as Ernest Augustus VI today had Queen Victoria's father disputed her paternity.
But Ernst August would be King since 1987, and at the time he and Caroline were not married; so, maybe she would have convert to Anglicanism before the marriage....
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Old 03-07-2009, 09:09 AM
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Where are these media articles and where might I read them?
Who are the suggesting the father of Queen Victoria might have been?
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