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  #201  
Old 08-31-2011, 06:57 PM
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Queen Catherine, I saw a little of the movie on youtube and I think there was a deep loving affection there but not necessarily romantic. I recall once reading about Victoria that because she had no father growing up that she was very open to men "fathering" her in a way or taking charge if you prefer. Albert, Lord Melbourne and then John Brown seemed to have this effect on her. The way she behaved after Albert's death I highly doubt if she looked at any other man in a romantic fashion; plus her morals might have been of the kind where sex out of wedlock was a definite no no.
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  #202  
Old 09-02-2011, 06:46 PM
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I highly doubt she was in love with Brown since Prince Albert was the only man she was ever going to love.
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  #203  
Old 09-02-2011, 07:07 PM
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I think Queen Victoria loved Brown, but in a platonic way.
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  #204  
Old 09-27-2011, 04:19 PM
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‘Victoria & Albert: A Love Story’ Hosted by Prince Michael of Kent | The Royal Correspondent
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  #205  
Old 10-04-2011, 12:38 PM
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So far she is my favorite British monarch an love her story and is the reason I had to get "the young Victoria"
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  #206  
Old 10-09-2011, 11:44 PM
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Does anyone else think that Victoria continued the Hanoverian tradition of parents not getting along with their children, especially the ones who were going to succeed them? She didn't get along with her mother for the first 2 decades of her life, but her mother wasn't a Hanoverian. Victoria famously did not like her eldest son who was going to be King when she was dead.
I think the Hanoverian tradition ended with Victoria and her son was different, despite the famous line about George V wanting his sons to be afraid of him because he was afraid of his father, and his father was afraid of his mother; Edward VII never seemed to ever thoroughly hate either of his heirs, Albert Victor and George.
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  #207  
Old 10-11-2011, 11:10 PM
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I think Victoria, and Albert, were disappointed in Bertie because he enjoyed gambling, wine, women, disliked his studies and suffered by comparison with his intellectual sister, Vicky. This disappointement carried over to Victoria's misgivings about whether Bertie would make a good monarch and she did him and the country a great disservice by deliberately keeping him from assuming any responsibilities.

But he proved his parents wrong. Bertie was a great statesman and diplomat and his outgoing nature served the country well when many of the crowned heads of Europe were his relatives. And I believe it was also Alexandra's influence which made him tolerant and fond of his own children. Of course, he had an explosive temper and was often angry but my father was the same way and I loved him and was loved in return. The same with the Wales children and their father.

Victoria's prickly relationship with her mother was due to her mother's dislike of the Hanoverians and also the influence of Conroy. The duchess and Conroy isolated the young princess which caused resentment in Victoria and her royal relatives. Conroy was angling to be her protector and thereby control the young woman. The duchess was duped by him. This breach was healed before the duchess died.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:53 PM
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I am very much aware of the history, thank you. I am just comparing Victoria and her Hanovrian ancestors with each other and the similarities they all had with the treatment of their heir. All of the Hanoverian's distaste of their sons was rooted in something their children were doing that they did not approve of, seems whatever drove her predecessors also drove Victoria as well.
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  #209  
Old 10-12-2011, 02:59 AM
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And of course, VM, was not Victoria's dislike and distaste of Bertie compounded when he became the "cause" of "darling Papa's" untimely demise? I'm not sure that negative feelings about the heir's capabilities are entirely Hanovarian and I think that human psychology comes into the mix. There is the need to ensure that the heir is a competent follow on-but possibly no different from- the monarch, Victoria and George V coming instantly to mind but undoubtly those with broader knowledge will know of others. There is the undenyable fact that in the heir, lays not only the nation's future, but the monarch's end and there is the kind of jealousy which shows itself in George V when he maintains that he will make certain that his children will be as scared of him as his forbears had been of their fathers. One has to wonder what pleasure it gave him. There is always the possibility that had he been more tolerant, David may have not been so contraversial.
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  #210  
Old 10-12-2011, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsaritsa View Post
And of course, VM, was not Victoria's dislike and distaste of Bertie compounded when he became the "cause" of "darling Papa's" untimely demise? I'm not sure that negative feelings about the heir's capabilities are entirely Hanovarian and I think that human psychology comes into the mix. There is the need to ensure that the heir is a competent follow on-but possibly no different from- the monarch, Victoria and George V coming instantly to mind but undoubtly those with broader knowledge will know of others. There is the undenyable fact that in the heir, lays not only the nation's future, but the monarch's end and there is the kind of jealousy which shows itself in George V when he maintains that he will make certain that his children will be as scared of him as his forbears had been of their fathers. One has to wonder what pleasure it gave him. There is always the possibility that had he been more tolerant, David may have not been so contraversial.
I personally think that GV attitude towards fatherhood was typical of a lot of men, of all classes, of his era, where fatherhood was seen as being the disiplinarian more than anything else.
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  #211  
Old 10-13-2011, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
I am very much aware of the history, thank you. I am just comparing Victoria and her Hanovrian ancestors with each other and the similarities they all had with the treatment of their heir. All of the Hanoverian's distaste of their sons was rooted in something their children were doing that they did not approve of, seems whatever drove her predecessors also drove Victoria as well.
My dear XeniaCasaraghi,

My apologies, it seems I have offended you. I must have misunderstood your question. I think the Georges (I, II and III) disliked their elder sons in a way which may be unexplainable. I don't think Victoria disliked Bertie just because he was her heir. It was when he failed to meet her and Albert's expectations that she became critical. It caused her to worry about what would happen to England when he was monarch.
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  #212  
Old 10-13-2011, 10:02 PM
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I apologize if my post came off as me being offended. I possibly shouldn't have worded it the way I did. I admit I know more about Victoria than the George's 1-3 and don't know the specifics of why they hated their sons. I agree that Victoria had her reasons for disliking Bertie but perhaps so did the George's; I recall hearing that a few of them had similar lifestyles as Bertie with the women and drinking scandals.
And although Victoria essentially thought he was a slug and blamed him for Albert's death, I don't recall ever getting the impression that she outright hated him.
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  #213  
Old 10-13-2011, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
I apologize if my post came off as me being offended. I possibly shouldn't have worded it the way I did. I admit I know more about Victoria than the George's 1-3 and don't know the specifics of why they hated their sons. I agree that Victoria had her reasons for disliking Bertie but perhaps so did the George's; I recall hearing that a few of them had similar lifestyles as Bertie with the women and drinking scandals.
And although Victoria essentially thought he was a slug and blamed him for Albert's death, I don't recall ever getting the impression that she outright hated him.
My dear XeniaCasaraghi,

You are correct--Victoria never hated Bertie. As for the Georges, I know that George III was upset with all of his sons because they were promiscuous and spendthrifts, whereas he enjoyed farming and the domestic life. George was very faithful to his wife and perhaps this made him angry at his sons. The poor daughters suffered their own fate.
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  #214  
Old 10-14-2011, 01:31 AM
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Dear VM and XC, I sincerely hope that Victoria did not HATE Bertie, but whatever she may have to say on the subject, it would only be Bertie who could give us a true answer because he, alone, knew what it felt like to be her son. History reveals that he was a constant irritation to V during childhood because of his inability to emulate "Darling Papa," his lack of intelligence when measured against Vicky and his general slothfulness. I can.t recall ever reading anything Victoria said of his that I could consider loving or encouraging. I acknowledge that she rushed to his side when he was ill, but how much guilt was there about her previous treatment of, only she could tell us. Her letters tell of how vociferously she complained about him to all and sundry. It would have been all to easy for a lifetime of dislike to turn to hate after he became "responsible " for Albert's death.
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  #215  
Old 10-14-2011, 01:45 AM
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There are also reports of how she loved him - but feared that he wasn't up to the job of being King. In other words she loved him as her son but as her heir she had her doubts.
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  #216  
Old 10-15-2011, 12:37 AM
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Many parents are critical of their children but that does not mean they don't love them at the same time. Victoria pinned many hopes on Bertie and I am afraid he disappointed her, which she conveyed through her letters. But I don't think there is any evidence that she hated him or thoroughly disliked him. Vicky on the other hand had an active dislike of her son, Kaiser Wilhelm.
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  #217  
Old 10-30-2011, 03:40 AM
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Magnificent Obsession: Victoria, Albert And The Death That Changed The Monarchy | Mail Online
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  #218  
Old 12-11-2011, 08:40 PM
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As I was rewatching "The Young Victoria" for the billionth time, my husband and I freeze-framed Albert's arrival to England for the second time, at Victoria's invitation and which resulted in their engagement.

Albert is shown as coming into Victoria's presence accompanied by two dogs. They seem to be a kind of wolfhound. For those here who are conversant with such matters, may I ask:

1. Would it have been acceptable for Albert to bring two such animals into B.P?
2. Would it have been acceptable only if they were gifts for HM?
3. Is this historically accurate? and/or
4. What kinds of doggies were they?

Thanks!
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  #219  
Old 12-14-2011, 06:53 AM
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Queen Victoria's unbearable grief after the death of Prince Albert | Mail Online
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  #220  
Old 12-19-2011, 01:38 AM
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Poor woman. Albert's death was truly a blow to her and one from which she never fully recovered. Today, many grieving spouses are given medication to treat their depression. It is clear to me that the Queen was greatly depressed for many years after Albert's death.
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