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  #81  
Old 03-25-2011, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Tsaritsa View Post
I wonder if Vicky was so much her fathers' daughter that she treated Wilhelm in the way she had witnessed her father treating Bertie. It would be perfectly reasonable, given that she was Alberts' favourite child, for her to emulate her rolemodel and no higher form of praise.
That IS an interesting idea, indeed, especially given how differently Bertie and Willy turned out. Bertie was pleasure-seeking and idle in his youth, but actually was underestimated and much better king than people give him credit for. Willy was the opposite--dedicated and disciplined but ultimately not as wise nor insightful as a monarch as was perceived, and certainly not nearly as capable/impressive as he believed himself to be.
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  #82  
Old 03-25-2011, 03:44 PM
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I wasn't implying similarities between Bertie and Willy other than in a possible method of, shall we say,their early training which would not necessarily have produced similar personality traits in adults. I confess to knowing embarrassingly little about Willy because I've never felt drawn to him as an adult man, however, when I stop to think about a child with an infirmity which might set him apart from his peer group-at least in his own mind-and a mother who didn't seem to know about unconditional love(maybe her own Mama didn't, either) I think he deserves a closer, more tolerant examination. I feel another "What if" coming on.
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  #83  
Old 04-15-2011, 08:49 PM
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What was the big deal?
- why didnt the German people like her,calling her "the English woman" when her parents were mostly German
-why didn't willy get along with his mother?
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  #84  
Old 04-16-2011, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Grandduchess24 View Post
What was the big deal?
- why didnt the German people like her,calling her "the English woman" when her parents were mostly German
-why didn't willy get along with his mother?
Vicky and her late husband were no fans of Bismarck and the Emperor. Both were seen as liberal and thus anathema to Prussian politics. Thus, being British by birth and liberal, she was viewed as a foreigner, aka the English woman. And Willy's grandparents made sure that he did not get along with his parents because they separated him from Vicky and essentially brought him up to dislike his mother and others whose views differed from his.
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  #85  
Old 08-14-2011, 04:32 PM
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I read in "Victoria's Daughters",that despite the fact that she was a royal,she thought royal parties were "snobbish"or something like that.
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  #86  
Old 09-04-2011, 03:57 AM
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Just learned about Willy's "withered arm". Is it really correct to call it that? When I hear withered I think dying, shriveling, turning black etc. His arm, at least in the photos I've seen, seems shorter than the other but otherwise physically normal.
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  #87  
Old 09-04-2011, 05:43 AM
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If I recall correctly, his left arm was indeed a little shorter than the right arm, and he had the left elbow paralyzed.
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  #88  
Old 09-04-2011, 12:46 PM
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The cause being his traumatic entrance into the world after his mothers nightmarish labour. I believe they refused her request for her English doctor and the German doctor was less than competant ( I may have this round the wrong way!!!) One of the reasons for Willy's poor relationship with his mother was that he blamed this birth defect on her. His arm was wrenched/dislocated, maybe deliberately, in order to save his life.
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  #89  
Old 09-07-2011, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Tsaritsa View Post
The cause being his traumatic entrance into the world after his mothers nightmarish labour. I believe they refused her request for her English doctor and the German doctor was less than competant ( I may have this round the wrong way!!!) One of the reasons for Willy's poor relationship with his mother was that he blamed this birth defect on her. His arm was wrenched/dislocated, maybe deliberately, in order to save his life.
Willy seemed to blame everything on everybody else. I remember reading in Julia Gelardi's book Born to Rule that when his pregnant wife had an altercation with his sister he threatened to blame the sister if anything happened to the baby. The wife instigated the altercation. He must have been a big disappointment to Vicky, IMO.
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  #90  
Old 09-27-2011, 11:07 PM
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Russo my dear, and my dear Tsaritsa,

If you read Clay's King, Kaiser, Tsar, she suggests that the door swings both ways. From the letters Vicky wrote to Queen Victoria, Willy's mother was repulsed by his disfigurement and this had to have some bearing on their relationship.
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  #91  
Old 10-04-2011, 05:06 PM
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Russo my dear, and my dear Tsaritsa,

If you read Clay's King, Kaiser, Tsar, she suggests that the door swings both ways. From the letters Vicky wrote to Queen Victoria, Willy's mother was repulsed by his disfigurement and this had to have some bearing on their relationship.
That is one book I have wanted to read for a long time VM. Thanks for reminding me about it!
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  #92  
Old 10-04-2011, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos View Post
Russo my dear, and my dear Tsaritsa,

If you read Clay's King, Kaiser, Tsar, she suggests that the door swings both ways. From the letters Vicky wrote to Queen Victoria, Willy's mother was repulsed by his disfigurement and this had to have some bearing on their relationship.
He also blamed her insistence on using an English doctor during his birth (which he blamed for his disfigurement) and as a result, hampered Vicky's efforts to get an English doctor to treat Frederick with his cancer.
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  #93  
Old 10-05-2011, 11:45 PM
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He also blamed her insistence on using an English doctor during his birth (which he blamed for his disfigurement) and as a result, hampered Vicky's efforts to get an English doctor to treat Frederick with his cancer.
My dear Zonk,

But ironically, when Vicky did get an English doctor to examine Frederich (I think it was MacKenzie), the diagnosis was that he did not have cancer. All the German doctors said he had cancer and MacKenzie gave the family some (false) hope. Later, the doctor admitted that his initial diagnosis was wrong. But I don't think it would have made any difference--it sounds like the poor man's cancer was so advanced that there was nothing anyone could do. Bertie was quite grief stricken and wrote a passionate letter to George (V) imploring him to never forget his uncle and how good he was.
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  #94  
Old 10-05-2011, 11:47 PM
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That is one book I have wanted to read for a long time VM. Thanks for reminding me about it!
Russo my dear,

It is a very well written book and I am enjoying it. It is a good study of the three cousins who led their countries into war. There is a lot about the people surrounding them as well. I am now at the point where Nicky and Alexandra have just got engaged.
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  #95  
Old 10-09-2011, 09:39 PM
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Does anyone know if there could possible be film footage of Vicky? In one short bit I have seen of Queen Victoria, her first on film, for a split second there is a woman near the carriiage all in black morning sort of like photo's I have seen of Vicky. Or might there be a recording of her voice? Probably not. It has been a while since I have been on line so wanted to ask. She is one of my favorite royals of all time.
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  #96  
Old 10-09-2011, 11:28 PM
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The English were just as xenophobic with the Germans as the Germans were with Victoria. They didn't like Prince Albert because he was German, completely ignoring that Queen Victoria was German on both her mother and father's side. Also when Alexandra married Nicholas II, they hated her for being German; when many of her predecessors were German as well, including Catherine The Great. The prejudice against certain royals married to other royals is just laughable.
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  #97  
Old 10-10-2011, 12:00 AM
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My dear Zonk,

But ironically, when Vicky did get an English doctor to examine Frederich (I think it was MacKenzie), the diagnosis was that he did not have cancer. All the German doctors said he had cancer and MacKenzie gave the family some (false) hope. Later, the doctor admitted that his initial diagnosis was wrong. But I don't think it would have made any difference--it sounds like the poor man's cancer was so advanced that there was nothing anyone could do. Bertie was quite grief stricken and wrote a passionate letter to George (V) imploring him to never forget his uncle and how good he was.
Vasillisos...what is your source. I don't recall that in the book that I read on Vicky.
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  #98  
Old 10-11-2011, 11:14 PM
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Vasillisos...what is your source. I don't recall that in the book that I read on Vicky.
My dear Zonk,

King, Kaiser, Tsar by Clay. This was the first I read of this. The doctor was Morell Mackenzie of Harley Street and the information can be found on p. 121.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:45 PM
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I couldn't get into that book. I made it to the Wilhelm's second chapter and just had to put it down.
As to the future Edward VII being grief stricken at his brother in laws death; it gives me a little understanding as to why the German's did not like Frederick if he got along so well with his English in laws it probably meant he held some of their ideals.
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  #100  
Old 10-12-2011, 12:25 AM
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My dear XeniaCasaraghi,

You are absolutely correct. Frederick was very liberal and the English hoped he would usher in a liberal society and an eventual constitutional monarchy but it was not to be.
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