Victoria, Princess Royal (1840-1901)

[Lady Marmalade]

I agree.. Her relationship with her three eldest has always fascinated me. I think some of that comes from the fact, that she was, shall we say, a bit over-confident in herself and a perfectionist. Her father and mother treated her like the princess she was and lavished their love on her. Albert's tutelage of her made her incredibly brilliant, that with her self-confidence, made her a very independent thinking princess at the time.

When she had Willy, and he was injured during birth physically with his arm, I don't think she could ever really accept a child who had somewhat of a physical handicap.

That coupled with his paternal grandparents' impressions on him, left him somewhat at a difficult crossroads with his mother.

Many of these women in this family seem to have such difficult and sad relationships with their oldest son...you see somewhat of a pattern.

 

[Martha]

I read that Vicky had a lot problemas with her son William.

 

[Leslie2006]

Vicky was the little perfectionist, but only because Queen Victoria was so quick to point out all her faults shortly after complimenting her daughter---she was that way with all of her children, and as a result, Vicky was that way, especially with her eldest three. Prince Albert was too confidant that his daughter was going to change the Prussian royal family in a good way, and he and his wife both refused to let Vicky forget the fact that she was born an English princess and should remain as such, therefore she was never able to fully become a Prussian---which is what would have saved her alot of scrutiny from her in-laws and her subjects. Vicky may very well have been in love with Fritz, but she was in a bad situation---her mother married her off way too young, and only did she realize this after Vicky had given birth to Charlotte in 1860. QV expected Vicky to write her all the time and any minute error that was made, she harped on her daughter for it. So being overly critical of her children (and herself) was not entirely Vicky's fault.

 

[windsorbrides1]

The picture identified as Vicky's Wedding is actually Edward and Alexandra's Wedding.

 

[Menarue]

If one studies the life and character of the Empress Frederik it becomes apparent that she was not always the most benevolent of mothers and unfortunately this resulted in several of her children rejecting her and the ideals of herself and her husband.

That still doesn´t explain how a son could let his mother die in the most excruciating pain.

 

[Warren]

The picture identified as Vicky's Wedding is actually Edward and Alexandra's Wedding.

Possibly, but both Elizabeth Longford in Victoria RI and Hannah Pakula in An Uncommon Woman caption the same photograph as Vicky at her own wedding in 1858.

 

[Avicenna]

I often wonder how different our world would be now if Frederick had lived to a ripe old age. If there was no World War I, Iraq wouldn't even exist.

It would have been worse.

Actually Friedrich had the possiblity to take over the throne in 1862 when his father was willing to abdicate in his favour. Fortunatly for Prussia he hesitated and refused. The man was a big hesitator, no or poor will-power. Whereas his wife was willing to change the monarchy according to the English system, but refused all kind of social reforms. Remember, end of the 1860 ies Bismarck introduced a whole series of social reforms. All refused by the Crown Prince Couple and most of all the Crown Princess. She was so terribly focused on the English way of life that she forgot reality. Pathetic indeed.

WW1 would have come anyway. At this time there was a mood for war throughout Europe. Barbara Tuchman (Ambassador Morgenthau's grandchild) has described it clearly in her book "The guns of August".

 

[Leslie2006]

If one studies the life and character of the Empress Frederik it becomes apparent that she was not always the most benevolent of mothers and unfortunately this resulted in several of her children rejecting her and the ideals of herself and her husband.

Right. Similar to how Vicky's mother treated Bertie (Edward VII). Thus, they did not get along well either.

 

[Avicenna]

Right. Similar to how Vicky's mother treated Bertie (Edward VII). Thus, they did not get along well either.

However, Queen Victoria would only stiffen towards Bertie after her husband's death. Surely Bertie created sufficient anxiety before and both parents had little confidence - documented in a letter of the Queen to her eldest daughter in April 1859, but at least he "showed quite a turn for social functions" (Hibbert in his biography on Edward VII) and e.g. Disraeli found him "intelligent, informed and with a singularly sweet manner". His weakness was his laziness. But when the Prince Consort had to sort out the Prince's liaison with a certain Nellie while being already ill, it was too much. The subsequent death was blamed by the Queen to Bertie ... at least according to Hibbert and I have no reason to doubt him. His argumentation appears conclusive to me.

Thus Wilhelms situation cannot be compared to the QV-Bertie relationship. It would be more appropriate to look into his fathers (Friedrich III) relationship with his respective father Wilhelm (the grandfather).

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

That still doesn´t explain how a son could let his mother die in the most excruciating pain.

I am not sure that Wilhelm allowed his mother to suffer from the cancer; I had always assumed that there was little the doctors could do to allay the pain short of overdosing her with morphine until she died. However, Wilhelm was a cruel and petty man and he certainly did not get along with his mother and she did not like him as well.

 

[Lady Marmalade]

I have a feeling both Wilhelm and Carol of Romania knew how bad off their mothers were....and in a covert act of coldness.... delayed either medical treatment, ignored the advice of having the best doctors tend to them...and in Queen Marie's case, PURPOSELY hastened her death by forcing her to take a train home to die.... Both of them are burning in hell for the sins they committed.....both were sick, malicious men...

 

[Warren]

Victoria, Crown Princess of Prussia in 1867

portrait by Franz Xaver Winterhalter

from Wikipedia Commons - Public Domain - copyright expired
Painting is part of HM the Queen British Royal Collections, Buckingham Palace
​

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

Can anyone suggest a good read on Empress Frederick?

 

[Dragon_Fire]

Can anyone suggest a good read on Empress Frederick?

Definitely Hannah Pakula's An Uncommon Woman. Gives you a good comprehensive coverage of Empress Frederick's life and all the major figures in her life are featured.

 

[Zonk]

Yes, that was a great book.

You might also try Vicky: Princess Royal of Great Britian and Empress of Germany its by Daphne Bennett.

Has anyone read the letters between the Vicky and her mother?

Vicky certainly was not the best mother but she was a woman of her times. She certainly didn't deserve to be treated by Wilhem the way she was.

 

[Mermaid1962]

I've read one of the volumes that have been published. What struck me about it was how Queen Victoria and her daughter would talk about international events in terms of uncles and aunts and cousins and nieces and nephews.

 

[Russophile]

Has anyone read the letters between the Vicky and her mother?

No, but I have it. I'll have to check exactly where I put that book!

 

[Warren]

Sorry Russo, it doesn't count unless you've actually read it.

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[Russophile]

Pfft! Pfft!
Hey, how 'bout that Winterhalter, eh? *Russo skillfully changes the subject* I was reading in Hesse that he spent his summers in England painting Victoria et. all.
http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipe...ver_Winterhalter_Family_of_Queen_Victoria.jpg

 

[Zonk]

I've read one of the volumes that have been published. What struck me about it was how Queen Victoria and her daughter would talk about international events in terms of uncles and aunts and cousins and nieces and nephews.

I've heard that as well. And I heard the same thing about George V as it relates to WWI.

I almost purchased one of the volumes on ebay, but was outbid at the last moment. I must check it out again.

Its a shame that Beatrice burnt a lot of Queen Victoria's letters.....the stories that they could tell.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Wasn't Vicky unsparing in her criticism of Wilhelm while writing to Queen Victoria? It doesn't sound like Vicky turned a blind eye to her son's faults; instead, she was very honest in appraising his arrogance and cruelty. If she had been a better mother and her in-laws had not interfered with the child rearing, I wonder if Wilhelm would have turned out differently?

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

I think a great deal of Wilhelm's issues stem from his paternal grandparents and Bismark... and his withered arm being the excuse of many (even Queen Victoria) for turning a blind eye

 

[Zonk]

Wilhem definitely got away with more than he should. Snubbing Bertie when he came to Europe, treating his parents (and his younger siblings like dirt), ransacking the Palace after his father died, etc. But I am sorry, there are tons of people who have terrible childhoods and aliments and they don't grow up with nasty personalities. So there is no excuse in my book for Wilhem's.

Bismarck certainly backed the wrong horse, as they (Bismarck and Wilhem) were not able to have a long working relationship. It was very interesting to read in An Uncommon Woman, how he came to Vicky for guidance. It shows what a mature and reasonable woman she was by not throwing a lot of it back in his face.

Its interesting to note that Bertie (Uncle Edward) stated that William would bring the world to war after his death.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

AMEN!! Willy was a bitter pill, in general.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Its interesting to note that Bertie (Uncle Edward) stated that William would bring the world to war after his death.

This quote illustrates how perceptive Edward VII was about world affairs and it is a shame that his death robbed the world of his diplomacy prior to the start of WWI

 

[Zonk]

Exactly...he called it so accurately just as his son (George V) did about his son (Edward VIII).

Imagine what Edward VII could have done if he had been trained properly?! Or Princess Victoria if she was the heir. Really....I think Queen Victoria and Prince Albert did a pretty decent job of raising their kids. Or at least the nannies did. A couple of hiccups and minor scandals...but they turned out alright. It was their grandchildren and great grandchildren that turned out to be the problem!.

 

[CarolinaLandgrave]

As history well shows us.... there were loads of trouble with the grandchildren and great-grandchildren!! Snakes alive....

 

[persian85033]

I think perhaps she felt guilty for her son's deformed arm, and that also contributed. I can see him telling her it is all her fault.

 

[MAfan]

Well, maybe he didn't tell her clearly, but surely Wilhelm thought it was all Victoria's fault. This was one of the reason of his hate towards her.

 

[Roderick]

Wilhelm's feelings towards his mother were very complex. Some of his letters to her indicate emotions far from hatred. I would describe it [from his point of view] as a love-hate relationship.