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  #61  
Old 08-29-2016, 11:27 PM
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What years was Princess Mary Adelaide's father, Prince Francis the president of the Royal Botanic Society?
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  #62  
Old 08-30-2016, 12:14 AM
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Princess Mary Adelaide's husband was Francis Duke of Teck. I looked up Wikipedia and all they say is that he was President of the Royal Botanical society. Maybe you have to google the RBS to find your dates.
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  #63  
Old 06-08-2017, 02:42 PM
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I find it incredible that such a minor royal like Princess Mary Adelaide received an allowance voted by Parliament and was given an apartment at Kensington Palace.
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  #64  
Old 06-08-2017, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kronprinz View Post
I find it incredible that such a minor royal like Princess Mary Adelaide received an allowance voted by Parliament and was given an apartment at Kensington Palace.
Unless I'm mistaken, was she not a 1st cousin of Queen Victoria? And thus in a similar position to the Dukes of Gloucester and Kent and Prince Michael of Kent, all of whom also have apartments at Kensington Palace?
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  #65  
Old 06-15-2017, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by irish_royalist View Post
Unless I'm mistaken, was she not a 1st cousin of Queen Victoria? And thus in a similar position to the Dukes of Gloucester and Kent and Prince Michael of Kent, all of whom also have apartments at Kensington Palace?
Yes but Queen Victoria had many more children. So there would be no need for Princess Mary Adelaide to perform royal duties and spend her money pursuing her lavish tastes.
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  #66  
Old 06-15-2017, 06:47 PM
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The concept of 'royal duties' as we understand it today is a 20th Century idea and wasn't done all that much before the end of World War One. It was part of the re-branding of the BRF as totally British so the members of the family were expected to be out and about a lot more.

Prior to that the heirs apparent and their spouses were the only ones who did regular appearances with others doing things occasionally and even sons and grandsons doing overseas visits but the idea of all an sundry doing engagements was really designed by George V.

The idea of moving to a smaller royal family as muted to be coming from Charles will actually take the concept of royal duties back to the 19th Century idea but adding the children of the monarch as well rather than just the heir apparent. No cousins needed for instance.

As for Mary Adelaide receiving a Civil List payment - this was the normal procedure for all HRHs until 1992 when the Queen was forced to change that procedure and return to paying tax. The deal that George III made was that in exchange for the income of the Crown Estates the parliament would give all adult members of his family a living allowance. All of George V's children and grandchildren were given such allowances as were all children and grandchildren of Queen Victoria - other than the children of Princess Victoria (the Empress Frederick) although she continued to be eligible for a Civil List payment after becoming the Crown Princess of Prussia. All wives of UK Princes were also given an allowance so Princess Alexandra of Denmark was given 10,000 pounds while the Grand Duchess Marie received less of course - another reason why she had her nose out of joint.

George V of Hannover was still paid his Civil List payment all his life and I believe his son was paid along with the Dukes of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha if voted to them before taking up that position but not after the outbreak of World War One if still eligible.
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  #67  
Old 06-15-2017, 09:59 PM
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I'm guessing the income from the Crown Estates was much lower then, as in not enough to keep up the lifestyle of even a frugal king.
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  #68  
Old 06-15-2017, 11:48 PM
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The Crown Estates, back then, had to pay for a lot more than just the lifestyle of the King. He had to pay the army and the administration of the judiciary and many other costs - now associated with the government - out of that. They were things that weren't paid for by the government then but directly by the King.

The King also had the income of the Duchy of Lancaster.

In real terms the income was probably a bit lower then but had to go a lot further. George III wasn't able to do it and so compromised with the government - give me xxxx for my official duties and support my family and you can have the rest to do with as you see fit but you also have to pay for these expenses as well.
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  #69  
Old 06-16-2017, 07:06 AM
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That makes sense. Took a lot of administration off his back.
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  #70  
Old 11-17-2017, 11:07 PM
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After the demise of Prince Albert Victor, do you think Princess Mary Adelaide took his loss as hard as her daughter, Princess May?
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  #71  
Old Yesterday, 12:15 AM
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Yes, it was a dreadful blow to Mary Adelaide because the woman was always up to her ears in debt. She had the habit of spending up to her income and beyond all her adult life. With the death of Prince Eddy and her daughter's brilliant marriage prospects disappearing the chance of some of those debts being forgiven and a sea of unlimited credit being granted, were gone. Plus, of course, marriage to the heir to the throne was a magnificent social coup and a glittering prize for any Mama, especially one married to a man who was looked down on by many continental royals as being of morganatic stock.

No wonder the Duke of Teck, Mary Adelaide's husband and May's father, went about the house the family took in the South of France following the shock death, saying 'It must be a Tsarevitch, it must be a Tsarevich!' a reference of course to Dagmar of Denmark marrying the future Alexander III of Russia after the premature death of Alexander's elder brother, her fiancé. And so it came to pass.
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  #72  
Old Yesterday, 05:32 AM
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But is that a dreadful blow or was it just selfish?
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  #73  
Old Yesterday, 06:43 AM
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I was being ironic, Denville. All that effort and then, phfttt!
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  #74  
Old Yesterday, 09:28 AM
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Oh Sorry, I wasn't sure. Because I don't think anyone but his parents and siblings greatly mourned poor ALb Victor. I doubt if Pss May was all that grieved... and as you say if her mother mourned it was only because she saw her daughter's chance of a brilliant marriage and financial aid, vanishing.
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  #75  
Old Yesterday, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Yes, it was a dreadful blow to Mary Adelaide because the woman was always up to her ears in debt. She had the habit of spending up to her income and beyond all her adult life. With the death of Prince Eddy and her daughter's brilliant marriage prospects disappearing the chance of some of those debts being forgiven and a sea of unlimited credit being granted, were gone. Plus, of course, marriage to the heir to the throne was a magnificent social coup and a glittering prize for any Mama, especially one married to a man who was looked down on by many continental royals as being of morganatic stock.

No wonder the Duke of Teck, Mary Adelaide's husband and May's father, went about the house the family took in the South of France following the shock death, saying 'It must be a Tsarevitch, it must be a Tsarevich!' a reference of course to Dagmar of Denmark marrying the future Alexander III of Russia after the premature death of Alexander's elder brother, her fiancé. And so it came to pass.
I read about Princess Mary's father saying, "it must be a Tsarevich, it must be a Tsarevich!" but I read that he was saying it while Eddy was on his death bed. I think the source was one of those gossipy blogs but I also know it was referenced in credible bios but I did not read it firsthand. I hope the above version is true because, as tacky as it is, it's better than the version I was originally exposed to.

What I want to now about is when and why did the Prince and Princess of Wales (future Edward VII and Queen Alexandra) dislike the Tecks? They weren't thrilled with Eddy and May's engagement, not because of May but because they did not like her parents however since Queen Victoria was in favor of the marriage, that was that. My understanding is that it was Queen Victoria and the Prince of Wales who did the matchmaking for the Tecks but somewhere along the way the Tecks fell out of favor with the Wales.
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  #76  
Old Yesterday, 10:59 AM
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Alexandra was always a bit possessive about her children, even when they were adults and none too eager to see any of them married off, really. When she was heartbroken after Eddy's death I don't think she came to terms very quickly with the thought that May would go on to marry George. Victoria, on the other hand, thought it would be an ideal solution.

However, Alexandra did like May and did her best to welcome her into the family, even if it was rather cloyingly...'You must always call me Motherdear, and come to me for everything'. May was a shy young woman and quite cool emotionally. I don't think she fancied that prospect, but she was always very tolerant of her mother in law.

Mary Adelaide was a flamboyant organising sort of woman who was big in every sense of the word. Edward didn't like her personality very much. I believe her husband, the Duke of Teck, was always regarded as a bit unstable. I think the main objection Alex had (and Edward, but mostly Alex) was how Mary Adelaide had played into Queen Victoria's idea (after Alix of Hesse had refused Eddy) that May would make an ideal wife for their elder son.

After Eddy's death George (who had been recovering from an illness at the time) went with his parents for a quiet time in the South of France. Along came the Tecks with May in tow to the same area. They paid a short formal visit.

However, I think Alex was inclined to think that her one remaining ewe lamb, George, was being staked down by the Duchess and neither she nor Edward liked it. Even so, George himself, after a while, agreed with Victoria's view that 'poor May' would make him a splendid wife. They had been quite friendly since childhood. And so Alex bent to the inevitable. She didn't want their wedding too soon, however.
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  #77  
Old Yesterday, 11:13 AM
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I don't know, but I'd imagine that the Tecks as a couple were not liked if they were so obviously hoping for the marriage of May to ONE of the Princes, largely for their own selfish reasons.
Mary Adelaide was well liked by the public, but her extravagance and silliness I think made her less well liked by the people who had to watch her building up debts.
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  #78  
Old Yesterday, 07:08 PM
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Did not Princess Mary Adelaide inherit a lot of money from her father Prince Adolphus?
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  #79  
Old Today, 01:19 AM
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Prince Adolphus didn't have a lot of money. Neither did his siblings or his father George III. Dolly was the sixth son and eleventh child of King George and Queen Charlotte. And anyway, with primogeniture what was there generally went to the eldest son, in Mary Adelaide's case her brother George, Duke of Cambridge.
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  #80  
Old Today, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Did not Princess Mary Adelaide inherit a lot of money from her father Prince Adolphus?
No. It was one of the reasons, along with her age, that they had trouble finding her a husband. Any money Adolphus had would have been left to his son and heir. A bride was of course expected to come with a dowry of sorts. Mary Adelaide was wide, poor, and 30, none of which attracted men. Her husband Frances was a product of a morganatic marriage and lower rank.

The couple lived in the UK because Mary had an annuity from the government for royal duties she performed. They also had apartments provided by Victoria. But she was known to ask for money from the queen frequently, to fund her lifestyle, though generally she was turned down.

Her life of extravagant parties, food and clothes got so bad they actually ran out on creditors. They went to the continent for two years, living in Florence as well as family in Germany. They used fake names to stay hidden. They did eventually return 2 years later and she seemed to become more dedicated to charity after that.

Her brother's estate was said to be less then 120,000 sterling when he died so it wasn't that her brother inherited a huge amount either.
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