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  #621  
Old 09-23-2017, 10:12 AM
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I think that Margaret carried her weight as a royal. The royals, including the Queen, have oodles of leisure time, but I guess the optics of cavorting in Mustique with a man decades younger than you looks worse than stay-cationing at Balmoral or Sandringham.

To be sure, I think that Margaret faced a difficult decision when it came to marrying Peter Townsend, but I don't think that it is unduly harsh to say that she chose the trappings of royalty over love, or alternatively the relationship with Peter Townsend had run its course and she chose not to marry him for that reason.

Appropos of nothing, but after seeing Peter Townsend as a commentator in documentaries, that guy rubs me the wrong way. And yeah I think there is something off-putting about how young Margaret and his second wife were when their romances started, although I should note that it is unclear/disputed when the romance with Margaret actually started.

There is no disputing that Margaret could be rude and imperious, but I cringe at some of the things Lord Snowden are reported to have said to her and his behavior towards her.
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  #622  
Old 09-23-2017, 11:41 AM
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I would not say that the relationship with Townsend had run its course. I think she was still in love with him, but she had many reasons why she did choose to not marry him. I think she had genuine scruples about what leaving the RF might do, to the queen, who was new in her job.. that it would look bad for her to desert her sister, and to give her sister the embarrassment of having her closest relative marrying a divorced man.
and I think that also, Margo really could not give up her role as Princess. She had never known anyhting else but being royal, she may have enjoyed playing with rebellion, but when push came to shove she probably took fright at the idea of being stuck somewhere abroad, with a husband who was of lower status.. losing her position, even if she kept the title of Princess. Look how miserable in many ways Edw VIII was when he ended up lving abroad, no longer a king.. trying to find a role and realising that now that he'd gone, the British people were quite content to let him go and to turn to George VI as their monarch.
As for Townsend he was indeed a war hero and a decent man, but I think he was very foolish to let himself get involved with Marg. He could not help falling in love.. but he msut have known that he would not be allowed to marry her unless she gave up her positon. I think he was wrong not to foresee that and he should have broken off the relationship before it got too deep.
I don't know how old his second wife was, but I don't realy think that it matters unless she was only 15 or something. And the marriage lasted the rest of his life and seems to have been very happy so IMO that speaks for itself.
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  #623  
Old 09-23-2017, 08:04 PM
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For the deal that had been worked out, the only thing that Margaret would have to give up was her place n the line of succession.She would not lose her HRH, she could still be a working royal and remain on the civil list. I think that Margaret's situation was different than her uncle's because sensibilities had changed, among other things Britain's PM was was divorced plus she was neither monarch nor heir, and her sister had produced an heir and spare.
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  #624  
Old 09-23-2017, 09:27 PM
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Ah, so many people here speak as if they were flies on the wall in royal palaces (not to mention knowledgeable mind readers of people long dead). I would only base my comments and observations upon what is known from reliable first-hand sources, well-researched biographies by reputable biographers, historical documentation, photographs, witnessed events, and actual eyewitness accounts and quotes by the parties in question.

I definitely would shy away from believing biopic portrayals, rumor and gossip.
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  #625  
Old 09-24-2017, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
For the deal that had been worked out, the only thing that Margaret would have to give up was her place n the line of succession.She would not lose her HRH, she could still be a working royal and remain on the civil list. I think that Margaret's situation was different than her uncle's because sensibilities had changed, among other things Britain's PM was was divorced plus she was neither monarch nor heir, and her sister had produced an heir and spare.
What deal do you mean? I don't believe the RF would allow her to reamin on the Civil List or do royal duties when many of the public would not approve of her marrying a divrorced man.
things hadn't changed all that much, by the 50s. It was still felt that royals were obliged to stick by the stricter rules of the C of E, which did not as a general rule permit remarriage to divorced people. It didn't matter that the PM was divorced,
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  #626  
Old 09-24-2017, 10:13 AM
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The deal was crafted by Prime Minister Anthony Eden and the Queen agreed to it. Margaret even references it in her statement announcing that she decided not to marry Townsend.

Quote:
From The Times, November 1, 1955
STATEMENT BY PRINCESS

The following personal message was issued by Princess Margaret from Clarence House last night: —
“I would like it to be known that I have decided not to marry Group Captain Peter Townsend. I have been aware that, subject to renouncing my rights of succession, it might have been possible for me to contract a civil marriage.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/o...nd-khnt2mmhzqz
Excerpts from another article:

Quote:
But in fact, papers available in the National Archives since 2004 show that the Queen and Eden drew up a plan in 1955 under which Princess Margaret could marry Townsend while keeping her royal title and her civil list allowance of £6,000 a year plus another £9,000 on marriage. She could live in this country and even continue with public duties if the public approved, as was highly likely.

However, she would have to renounce her rights of succession and those of her children.


[snip]


Eden himself, in his letter to Commonwealth prime ministers was very sympathetic to Princess Margaret. "Exclusion from the Succession would not entail any other change in Princess Margaret's position as a member of the Royal Family," he wrote.

Did the Queen stop Princess Margaret marrying Peter Townsend? - BBC News
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  #627  
Old 09-24-2017, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
Ah, so many people here speak as if they were flies on the wall in royal palaces (not to mention knowledgeable mind readers of people long dead). I would only base my comments and observations upon what is known from reliable first-hand sources, well-researched biographies by reputable biographers, historical documentation, photographs, witnessed events, and actual eyewitness accounts and quotes by the parties in question.

I definitely would shy away from believing biopic portrayals, rumor and gossip.
As would I.

As do I.

And Townsend did have a type: beautiful women who were much or very much younger.
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  #628  
Old 09-24-2017, 09:00 PM
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As far as I can recollect, all through the 70s Margaret was seen as idle and not very active.. and more fond of spending money, having affairs, and ilding in Mustique than doing any royal work. And gradauly she did less and less..
Yes, as early as the 1970s she was doing so little work that Parliament started to question if she was worthy of her very nice income.

I understand that as Prince Charles and Princess Anne turned into full working royals in the 70s, her share of engagements would have been reduced. Still she was more than happy to take the back seat and spend weeks without end sunbathing in the Caribbean.

The funny thing is that by the mid/late 90s she was expected to take on more duties due to the departure of Princess Diana and the Duchess of York from the family. She was the one who welcomed the French president in 1996 and she made a surprise appearance at the 1997 State Opening of Parliament.

But it was then that her health started to fail.
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  #629  
Old 09-24-2017, 09:38 PM
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Well, as I posted in #612 in this thread all the tours, causes and charities Margaret was involved with during the 1970s (and 1950s, 60s, and 80s) then all I can say is that sometimes people's memories on looking back forty years (if they can remember back that long) are faulty to say the least.

Of course when Charles and Anne grew up and then Diana and Sarah married in Margaret retreated into the background. That was natural. However, to call her an 'idle' and 'disgraceful Royal 'who only performed 'menial duties' (whatever they may be) is completely untrue, as far as I can see.

Andrew for example (probably my least favourite British Royal) has, if you believe the tabloids and rely on memory, done nothing since he left the RN except conduct trade deals in an unbecoming manner, have friendships with some very shady people and enable his ex wife's lifestyle.

Yet in his public life Andrew's figures for annual engagements aren't much lower than Charles and Anne's and he keeps plugging on with his particular spheres of interest, technology, entrepreneurship etc with very little publicity.

After his death the same things might well be said of him as they have been of Margaret. An emphasis on the scandals and very little on any good done.
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  #630  
Old 09-25-2017, 12:47 PM
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I googled some pictures of Princess Margaret at the State Opening of Parliament in 1997 and I think she looks incredibly well - very Princess-like, and still retaining her haughty air!
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  #631  
Old 09-25-2017, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by irish_royalist View Post
I googled some pictures of Princess Margaret at the State Opening of Parliament in 1997 and I think she looks incredibly well - very Princess-like, and still retaining her haughty air!
That was probably one of her last good moments. She had a stroke a few months later and it was all downhill from there.
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  #632  
Old 09-26-2017, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by irish_royalist View Post
I googled some pictures of Princess Margaret at the State Opening of Parliament in 1997 and I think she looks incredibly well - very Princess-like, and still retaining her haughty air!
There are numerous pictures of Margaret showing off her hauteur to full advantage, but to my mind the one which shows her as being most real -and incidentally, at her most beautiful- was the first one taken of her after her decision not to marry Townsend. She's sitting in the back of a car, wearing a fur coat, stripped of the Royal mask. Her eyes appear huge and wet with unshed tears. She looks like a woman who is hurting and imagines her world may have ended. I was very young when that picture was released. It still has the power to move me, as much now, as it did, then.
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  #633  
Old 09-26-2017, 12:22 PM
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It doesn't get any better showing off Margaret's personality than a picture of her in the bathtub wearing a grand tiara. I love this picture of Margaret but could do without seeing the one of her and Mick Jagger in the tub.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Prin...WfSE9pQxLLYlM:
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  #634  
Old 09-28-2017, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
It doesn't get any better showing off Margaret's personality than a picture of her in the bathtub wearing a grand tiara. I love this picture of Margaret but could do without seeing the one of her and Mick Jagger in the tub.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Prin...WfSE9pQxLLYlM:
This picture defines Princess Margaret: one foot inside the royal bubble, another in the celebrity world.

She really wanted to have her cake and eat it.
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  #635  
Old 09-28-2017, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
I love this picture of Margaret but could do without seeing the one of her and Mick Jagger in the tub.
That's a fake photo.
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  #636  
Old 09-28-2017, 03:56 PM
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You're absolutely right that its a fake and photoshopped. Still, that's the kind of an image that gives me the heebeejeebees as Mick Jagger isn't anywhere near my people to admire list. From what I've read, I've got good company with the Queen on this issue.
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  #637  
Old 09-29-2017, 04:54 AM
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well Marg liked showbiz people, problaby because she could show off and play her little game of wanting to be ordinary and then reverting to haughty when it suited her.
She was not an asset...
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  #638  
Old 09-30-2017, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
well Marg liked showbiz people, problaby because she could show off and play her little game of wanting to be ordinary and then reverting to haughty when it suited her.
She was not an asset...
Someone? wrote a book entitled "The Last Real Princess" which describes her position well. She was bought up like 'eristocretic gels" in the Edwardian era -a cocoon remote from the 20th century- whose main function was to be decorative. I think she probably was talented -although perhaps not QUITE as much as we're encouraged to believe. One wonders if she never tried to expand on these from fear of failure? I always feel there's something rather sad about aged Princesses. I feel the very name -which conjures up visions of young girls- is an insult to mature womanhood. There seems to be a suggestion that they've never made it any further.
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  #639  
Old 09-30-2017, 06:51 AM
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really? PRincess Alexandra's not a mature and useful woman?
Margo was Margo. She was lazy, selfish and spoiled. She did the minimum of royal duties and was noted fro doing them with frequent breaks in Mustique and a sour arrogant demeanour.
I've never heard of her having any particular talents, if you mean artistic ones. if she had, she could have used them either in private or public for her own and other's good.
Many royal women have been able to find jobs in the arts field, as it is "non controversial" and not commercial. Even if she couldnt' have actually worked in that filed, she could have devoted herself to something, and painted, or studied piano or some instrument to a high standard... or used her knowledge of in some way.
Margo probably moaned all her life that "oh dear she hadn't been let marry Peter T, and that had ruined her life." but odds are if she had, it would have broken up as he would have been older than her, and more serious and they would have become bored with each other.
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  #640  
Old 09-30-2017, 09:18 AM
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Can those labeling Margaret lazy elaborate on that claim? Did she do significantly fewer engagements than the other royals who supported the monarch? I kinda recall her being called out for laziness but that seemed to be tied to her lifestyle where she does not work as much as the average bloke and on top of that gets to jet off to the Caribbean but that can be said about all royals but it seemed like Margaret was an easier target because her vacation habits were perceived to be more luxe and hedonistic vis a vis other royals.
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