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  #561  
Old 09-12-2017, 06:44 PM
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The thing that really crossed you off her list was failing to address her as YRH and Ma'am.
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  #562  
Old 09-15-2017, 09:51 PM
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They say that The Princess Margaret was very rude and inconsiderate to people around the world.

I hope that isn't the reason that her death in 2002 did not generate so much attention as previous royals.


I hope she had a good relationship with her niece, Anne. Princesses Margaret and Anne are similar, tough, brash, and curt. Anne has a little Margaret personality in her and it comes from her mother, Queen Elizabeth II, her father, Prince Philip, and grandmother, Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother.


As for Margaret, I hope she had a good relationship with her niece and nephews. I know she loved Charles the most--her eldest nephew. Andrew has some of her traits as well.
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  #563  
Old 09-15-2017, 10:41 PM
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I don't think either the Queen or the Queen Mother were/are known for being brash, tough and curt. Quite the reverse in fact, especially in the case of the QM.
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  #564  
Old 09-16-2017, 03:19 AM
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I woould not say that Margaret was brash. She coudl be charming at times, and brash is not a word I'd associate with her since it suggests a "loud" sort of bad manners and her failures in good manners were more low key. But she was indeed selfish and often rude, in keeping guests up late at night, insisting on her royal status, doing little work as a royal..
I don't know why you say that she "loved Charles most". I don't know any evidence of this... and I don't know if she had the closest relationship with her sisters children, as she strikes me as someone who wasnt' fond of children except her own.
She certainly wasn't popular, as she grew older she was very much sidelined. She did fewer engagements, and was overshadowed by the younger royals including Diana and Sarah. Heatlh problems meant that she was seen less and less in public and she never really recovered popularity after her affairs and divorce in the late 70s.. so by the time she died her "time had passed" and the public wasn't interested in her anymore.
Anne is rude and selfifh also but in a more aggressive way, and she is at least a hard worker.. But I don't see any resemblance between the horsey matter of fact Anne and her aunt who was arty, vain and a fancy dresser...
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  #565  
Old 09-16-2017, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Indeed. The queen mum wrote to Mary sayings she wished to name her daughter Anne Margaret. But the king was opposed to the name. The compromise was Margaret Rose.

It was also said that the name was delayed in being registered due to superstition. They didn't wish her to be the thirteenth child in the parish registry. Not sure how true that is, but read it.
I think that that's true actualy, abot the 13th child.
And I think that it is also the reason why they didn't have a name sorted out quickly.. NOT because they were expecting a boy but because the King didn't like the name Ann, for some reason so he vetoed it. perhaps that is why the queen's daughter is called Anne, because the QM liked it and did not get to use it for her own daughter.
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  #566  
Old 09-16-2017, 06:18 AM
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What was wrong with the name Anne?

Would the QM really have had a say in the naming of Elizabeth and Philip's second child?
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  #567  
Old 09-16-2017, 06:36 AM
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I don't think I'd ever say that Margaret was chronically rude even. Its just that she was always conscious of her status. In a book I recently read, the author stated that there were those that were ever mindful of status and how one could tell is the way they would phrase a request. For example, the Queen Mother was always mindful to be courteous to those that worked for her and would state a request like "Do you think if you have a minute that you could wrap this up for me, please?" meaning of course it was what she wanted done and people paid attention to that. It was their job.

Then there were people like Andrew and Margaret, being every mindful of just who they were, would phrase a request as a command to underlings. In the book, it was stated that Andrew's catch phrase could be "Do it."

I've never come across anything in my reading that Margaret was overly close to Charles or any of her nieces and nephews but it was interesting to read that the Queen Mother had quite a close relationship with her grandson David Linley. She loved his fast cars and he would sometimes take her whizzing through the streets of London. No one would recognize the Queen Mum because it was a rarity to see her in public with a headscarf on rather than a hat.

Information here comes from the book "Behind Palace Doors: My Service As The Queen Mother's Equerry" by Major Colin Burgess. Its a good read.
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  #568  
Old 09-16-2017, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Information here comes from the book "Behind Palace Doors: My Service As The Queen Mother's Equerry" by Major Colin Burgess. Its a good read.
Thank you for that! Added to my list!
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  #569  
Old 09-16-2017, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Dee Anna View Post
What was wrong with the name Anne?

Would the QM really have had a say in the naming of Elizabeth and Philip's second child?
Nothing was wrong with the name Anne. King George V just didn't like it, that's all, and, a bit like Queen Victoria, what he said went, as far as his adult children were concerned.

I don't think Elizabeth the QM actually interfered. She probably just said a few times over the years how much she liked the name Anne. She may have half laughingly told her adult daughters how it was vetoed.

The Queen Mother was a proud Scot, and the Bowes Lyons were themselves proud of their role in Scotland's history. The Queen may well have grown up with that, and she regularly visited Glamis when she was a child. It's just my opinion, but I feel that it was no coincidence that the Queen gave Stuart names to her two older children.
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  #570  
Old 09-16-2017, 09:06 AM
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I should say that The QM may have had a role in helping to Choose Annes name. perhaps the queen (Eliz II) liked the name anyway and her mother reminded her of its being a Stuart Royal name.. and that she had liked the name for one of her children but been discouraged from using it.. and possibly ELiz II decided to use it for her own daughter... the other names given to Anne were family names.. Alice for Phil's mother, Eliz for the queen herself and the QM, and Louise was a very common royal name..
Margaret is of course also a Scottish royal name, so perhaps the QM chose it because of that, when she was told Anne was out.. And one of HER middle names was of course Marguerite...
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  #571  
Old 09-16-2017, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I don't think I'd ever say that Margaret was chronically rude even. Its just that she was always conscious of her status.
Then there were people like Andrew and Margaret, being every mindful of just who they were, would phrase a request as a command to underlings. In the book, it was stated that Andrew's catch phrase could be "Do it."


Information here comes from the book "Behind Palace Doors: My Service As The Queen Mother's Equerry" by Major Colin Burgess. Its a good read.
I think they are both rude, Andrew is known for being boorish and for many gaffes in public. Margaret's hauteur is more low key but it is also well attested..
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  #572  
Old 09-16-2017, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Anna View Post
What was wrong with the name Anne?

Would the QM really have had a say in the naming of Elizabeth and Philip's second child?
My mother wanted to name me Ann (no e), as it is a family name on her side, and my older sister was given a name that is a family name on my dad's side. My dad vetoed it as too plain for a first name so it is my middle name, which is extremely common among Catholic girls anyway. They named me Jennifer - the most common name of girls in my age group. All through grammar school, in a class with about a dozen girls, I was one of 3 Jennifers Ann would have at least been a little different!

I can definitely believe that the QM put in her 2 pence about naming Anne; my parents & in-laws gave their opinions about the naming of my kids. As a matter of fact, my twin daughters are named for their 4x great aunts who were the only other twins on my mom's side of the family, and it was my great-grandmother's idea. They both have lovely, old-fashioned French names.

Based on what I've read of Margaret, I guess i can see similarities in her & Anne's personalities. But I do not see Anne as the type to stand on ceremony as much as Margaret evidently did.
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  #573  
Old 09-16-2017, 11:39 AM
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What similarities? Anne is horsey and hard working. Margaret was artistic, and did not work very hard at royal duties. Anne cares little for her appearance, Margo dressed fashionably... and enjoyed an urbanite social life. Anne is a country lover.
Anne is of a different generation to her Aunt and while rude and arrogant, still a lot more democratic than Margaret.
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  #574  
Old 09-16-2017, 11:39 AM
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What similarities? Anne is horsey and hard working. Margaret was artistic, and did not work very hard at royal duties. Anne cares little for her appearance, Margo dressed fashionably... and enjoyed an urbanite social life. Anne is a country lover.
Anne is of a different generation to her Aunt and while rude and arrogant, still a lot more democratic than Margaret.
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  #575  
Old 09-16-2017, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by QueenPenny View Post
My mother wanted to name me Ann (no e), as it is a family name on her side, and my older sister was given a name that is a family name on my dad's side. My dad vetoed it as too plain for a first name so it is my middle name, which is extremely common among Catholic girls anyway. They named me Jennifer - the most common name of girls in my age group. All through grammar school, in a class with about a dozen girls, I was one of 3 Jennifers Ann would have at least been a little different!



I can definitely believe that the QM put in her 2 pence about naming Anne; my parents & in-laws gave their opinions about the naming of my kids. As a matter of fact, my twin daughters are named for their 4x great aunts who were the only other twins on my mom's side of the family, and it was my great-grandmother's idea. They both have lovely, old-fashioned French names.



Based on what I've read of Margaret, I guess i can see similarities in her & Anne's personalities. But I do not see Anne as the type to stand on ceremony as much as Margaret evidently did.

Anne is also a common middle name for girls named Katherine.



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  #576  
Old 09-17-2017, 01:25 AM
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Yes, it seems to have become a reasonably common middle name. It was popular in Britain as a girls name in the 1950s, almost certainly because of Princess Anne, I think, but declined after that.
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  #577  
Old 09-17-2017, 03:10 AM
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some more on the book to come
Princess Margaret: Life on island 'like an Ibiza party' | Daily Mail Online
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  #578  
Old 09-17-2017, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Kronprinz View Post
The thing that really crossed you off her list was failing to address her as YRH and Ma'am.
It would be rude and incorrect, in Margaret's day for someone to fail to address her without her proper title, unless she gave them permission to do so. what was rude About Margaret was that she apparently would be friendly and informal with people and then freeze up and act haughtily...
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  #579  
Old 09-17-2017, 07:11 AM
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This reading about Princess Margaret's behavior makes me think of Lady Catherine de Bourgh in Pride and Prejudice. Rude and interfering, but veiled in a cloud of polite superiority.
One of those people who think they know better and are better, simply because of their status in life. That is indeed what I call haughty and arrogant. Ugh.
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  #580  
Old 09-17-2017, 07:16 AM
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You forgot condescending in your analysis but its right on the money when you compare Margaret with Lady Catherine deBourgh in Jane Austen's work. Two peas in a pod as far as character. They could be downright odious at times.
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