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  #541  
Old 09-10-2017, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I don't think this is a great revelation to any Royal watcher. It's well known that this woman could turn the charm on full blast when she wanted to, but also at times froze people out, imperiously demanded that they do things like hold her ashtray while she smoked, and was very inconsiderate of other people's feelings when she wanted to enjoy herself at the piano until the early hours of the morning.
Princess Margaret was such a beauty when she was young. Her entitled and snobbish attitude made you want to choke her though. She held her nose so far in the air, she would've needed a 10ft pole to pick it. All those years of smoking, drinking and living life in the edge took its toll on her in the end.
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  #542  
Old 09-10-2017, 03:39 AM
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Yes Dman, I agree. Sometimes what's on the inside of a person completely spoils any beautiful exterior IMO. She was lovely in her twenties though, agree with you, superb almost violet eyes against dark hair and a delicate complexion. Really exquisite.
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  #543  
Old 09-10-2017, 05:57 AM
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I can't see anything charming about her at all. She wasn't IMO particularly intelligent or interesting..all she had was that she was attractive and had HRH in front of her name. Had it not been for that, I doubt if she have had the "oh she was charming but could be very selfish" at all.
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  #544  
Old 09-10-2017, 07:52 AM
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I think many royals have that antenna inside for recognition of their position. Princess Margriet, the always so lovely, likeable and down-to-earth sister of former Queen Beatrix appears in a margaret-esque story, with an attitude alike her British namesake.

On the Third Tuesday of September there is the annual equivalent of the State Opening of Parliament in The Hague. A guard of honour is standing in front of the palace and when a member of the Royal House leaves the palace, the regimental standard of the guard is bowed down: see picture.

When someone, who is NO member of the Royal House leaves the palace, the regimental standard of the guard is NOT bowed down: see picture.

Anyway, once HRH Princess Margriet of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, Princess zur Lippe-Biesterfeld left the palace and the standard-bearer of the guard forgot to bow down the regimental standard for her. According the book "Aan het Hof" by Remco Meijer and Jan Hoedeman, afterwards the Princess was stingy towards the Gouverneur der Residentie, the highest military commander in The Hague, responsible for the military ceremonial: "Since when I am no Princess of the Netherlands anymore?", leaving the governor choking in his cake or something.

Princess Margriet! Such a sweet lady, so approachable, so charming! And then such a stingy remark inside the palace walls... So this feeds my theory that all born royals have such a sixth sense for something which looks totally futile in our eyes but can be of the greatest importance for them. I think Princess Margaret had exact that same sixth sense in her. It is not "nose in the air". They simply know they are born into that position.
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  #545  
Old 09-10-2017, 12:35 PM
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"Oh look! Margo's on fire"

I just finished reading "Behind Palace Doors: My Service as the Queen Mother's Equerry" by Major Colin Burgess and he relates an incident that best expresses Margaret's demeanor.

They were all having dinner and Margaret reached for something and inadvertently had her hair too close to a candle. Her hair started to smolder and then started to really burn. HM, The Queen notices and says "Oh look! Margo's on fire!". A staff member close to Margaret then quickly pats out the burning hair with his hands. At first Margaret looks at him with an expression that said "how dare you touch me like that" in an imperious manner until she realized what was really happening. It was quickly over and the dinner resumed.

Margaret could be funny, witty, amusing and a whole lot of fun but never, ever did she let people forget who she was.
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  #546  
Old 09-11-2017, 05:27 AM
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It wasn't so much the never letting people forget who she was, as the way that she would apparently be informal and friendly and THEN revert to "I'm the queen's sister" icy mode and freeze people.
that's rude and unpleasant. But she was always like this.
I think that once the queen became queen, Margo was very much clinging desperately to that royal status, knowing that she wasn't ever going to be queen, that her sisters' children would be more important than her, that her adoring father was gone and the only thing she had to cling to was that she was HRH and the Q's sister.
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  #547  
Old 09-11-2017, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
It wasn't so much the never letting people forget who she was, as the way that she would apparently be informal and friendly and THEN revert to "I'm the queen's sister" icy mode and freeze people.
that's rude and unpleasant. But she was always like this.
I think that once the queen became queen, Margo was very much clinging desperately to that royal status, knowing that she wasn't ever going to be queen, that her sisters' children would be more important than her, that her adoring father was gone and the only thing she had to cling to was that she was HRH and the Q's sister.
I agree. A lot of her behavior can be attributed to compensating. She would always be the odd one out, coarsely said 'the loser', second best, so her title was all she had to make her feel important and she held onto it for dear life.

Rather sad actually if one gets his/her self-esteem from a title, but that's how it worked for some in those days I guess.
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  #548  
Old 09-11-2017, 07:57 AM
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as a roiyal there's bound to be something of one's self esteem bound up with one's history and status. however, I think with Margaret, she was a silly woman, her father spoiled her a bit, and then she had the love affair with Townsend that went badly. Perhaps if she had been able to marry him, and keep up her Royal role, she might not have been so "empty".
But I think that she was "second in line and second best" once her adoring father was gone and Peter T had been banished so he couldn't supply her with the love and private happiness. So I think she then looked for friendship and love elsewhere but was always clinging to the idea that as an HRH and a Kings daughter, she was better than anyone else..
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  #549  
Old 09-11-2017, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
I agree. A lot of her behavior can be attributed to compensating. She would always be the odd one out, coarsely said 'the loser', second best, so her title was all she had to make her feel important and she held onto it for dear life.

Rather sad actually if one gets his/her self-esteem from a title, but that's how it worked for some in those days I guess.
Some sources I've read put this aspect of Margaret into perspective by calling it what is known as the "middle child syndrome". Although loved as much as any child, the first one (especially in the royal family) is the one that the expectations are heaped on, usually are the heirs and the second child sometimes feels like the afterthought. Margaret was mercurial in her moods.

Not only Margaret has been this way. Many state that Andrew is pretty much the same by having to stress the fact that he is royal and that he is a prince and that he has status. Some sources state that he's not even nice about it for the most part when dealing with "underlings". One, Major Colin Burgess a former equerry to the Queen Mother, goes as far as to say that Andrew's catch phrase is "Do it".
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  #550  
Old 09-11-2017, 09:31 AM
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True Andrew is rather like that. I think it is partly to do with their both being "second in line".. and knowing that they missed the "being King" by a narrow margin. I gather Andy also tends to be friendly at times and then revert to Prince status.
However there have been other second sons who were queite, shy and modest, and not bumptious at all.. like George V and George VI...
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  #551  
Old 09-11-2017, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
as a roiyal there's bound to be something of one's self esteem bound up with one's history and status. however, I think with Margaret, she was a silly woman, her father spoiled her a bit, and then she had the love affair with Townsend that went badly. Perhaps if she had been able to marry him, and keep up her Royal role, she might not have been so "empty".
But I think that she was "second in line and second best" once her adoring father was gone and Peter T had been banished so he couldn't supply her with the love and private happiness. So I think she then looked for friendship and love elsewhere but was always clinging to the idea that as an HRH and a Kings daughter, she was better than anyone else..
Her relationship with Peter Townsend also left her scarred, I do believe that.
And I used to be one of those who wished that she would have married him and felt sad for her that her wish in this was denied.

But did it not become clear from one of her letters that she was not so much 'forbidden' to marry him as much as she was unsure if she wanted to marry him at all?

My guess is that she wanted both worlds and could not make up her mind. She chose the world she grew up in, but it left a resentfulness in her because she was not able to marry the man she loved.
Had she married that man that would also left her to be resentful because she did not have her "King's Daughter and Queen's sister" anymore.

I do think she was a beautiful woman, but her character??? Not so beautiful, I'm afraid. That does make a person less beautiful on the outside for me.
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  #552  
Old 09-11-2017, 10:18 AM
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I thnk she had genuine religious scruples, and her loyalty to the queen etc made her reluctant to do something that might have created problems for her sister. But some of it, was I think a fear of moving outside the Royal life that was all she knew.. She would nto have starved but she wanted to be boht "princess Margaret doing royal work and photographed as one of the bright young things of the 50's.." AND the wife of a not very well off man - who would have problaby had to live abroad for a few years at least. But I think that she was bitter, having made her decision, and felt that she'd been deprived of personal happiness by an accident of birth...
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  #553  
Old 09-11-2017, 10:58 AM
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Now that you mention it, I also think that the idea of moving out of the only life she knew frightened her.
She wanted both worlds - she wanted to be HRH The Princess Margaret and have Peter Townsend for her husband. Perhaps in a certain way she was ahead of her time...

What comes up suddenly is that I once read, I believe it was Hello Magazine's tribute to her after her death, that her parents were anticipating a boy and when she was born it took her parents up to two weeks to come up with a name for her.
If true, might she not have felt that somehow all along? Kind of the "unwanted child"?
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  #554  
Old 09-11-2017, 11:14 AM
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I am sure they would have liked a boy, but I don't know that they took ages to have a name for her.
I'm sure that she was bitter when as time went on, she saw her sisters chidlren getting divorced or causing scandals and NOT having to think of giving up royal life. But while you can sort of understand that, its life. Time goes on, and things change and that things that weren't acceptable when she was young became acceptable.
I think she felt "left behind by history".. that she was a divorced older woman, no longer popular, and then she saw the younger royals getting divorced, leaving their husbands like Diana etc..
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  #555  
Old 09-11-2017, 03:59 PM
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The truth is that, 15 years after her death, hardly anyone will remember her apart from dedicated royalists.

Most younger people won't even know the Queen had a sibling once.
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  #556  
Old 09-11-2017, 04:16 PM
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She was not nice for sure, but above all i think she was a deeply sad woman, who didn't find some meaning to her very privileged status.
At least she had two grounded and creative children, and found some peace at the very end of her life.
Utterly sad and lost destiny.
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  #557  
Old 09-11-2017, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
Now that you mention it, I also think that the idea of moving out of the only life she knew frightened her.
She wanted both worlds - she wanted to be HRH The Princess Margaret and have Peter Townsend for her husband. Perhaps in a certain way she was ahead of her time...

What comes up suddenly is that I once read, I believe it was Hello Magazine's tribute to her after her death, that her parents were anticipating a boy and when she was born it took her parents up to two weeks to come up with a name for her.
If true, might she not have felt that somehow all along? Kind of the "unwanted child"?
I thought I read that her parents wanted her first name to be something - Anne or Rose or something like that - and King George V and Queen Mary were opposed to that name, so it was something of a compromise on her name.
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  #558  
Old 09-11-2017, 09:55 PM
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Indeed. The queen mum wrote to Mary sayings she wished to name her daughter Anne Margaret. But the king was opposed to the name. The compromise was Margaret Rose.

It was also said that the name was delayed in being registered due to superstition. They didn't wish her to be the thirteenth child in the parish registry. Not sure how true that is, but read it.
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  #559  
Old 09-11-2017, 09:55 PM
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In the movie The Queen starring Helen Mirren, when Robin says to Elizabeth, regarding Cherie Blair, "You may remember her curtsey the first time you met. It could be best described as shallow", Elizabeth replies, "I don't measure the depth of a curtsey, Robin. I leave that to my sister." What does that even mean?
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  #560  
Old 09-11-2017, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by sarahedwards2 View Post
In the movie The Queen starring Helen Mirren, when Robin says to Elizabeth, regarding Cherie Blair, "You may remember her curtsey the first time you met. It could be best described as shallow", Elizabeth replies, "I don't measure the depth of a curtsey, Robin. I leave that to my sister." What does that even mean?


The quick and shallow curtsey was meant to show that Cherie Blair was a Republican who didn't have a lot of respect for the monarchy.

The Queen's response was meant to show she doesn't mind- Margaret, on the other hand, was famous for insisting on very formal protocol around her at all times.
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