Princess Charlotte of Wales (1796-1817)


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Jeeze what's up with the German princes having no money.
Anyway, I wonder how Charlotte ended up such a well rounded girl with a father like that and barely seeing her mother.
 
When Leopold and Charlotte assembled their own staff, Dr. Christian Stockmar, Leopold's personal physician, became the Prince's Secretary, Comptroller of his Household and Keeper of his Privy Purse.

Lord Castlereagh and Lord Lauderdale agreed that Prince Leopold was a man of the highest principles and an ideal husband for their future queen (Charlotte).
Lord Lauderdale confirmed that Leopold was partial to Princess Charlotte.

When the Morning Chronicle announced that Miss Cornelia Knight had been appointed sub-governess to Princess Charlotte, Miss Knight felt that the statement should be retracted and state that she had been appointed as "lady companion" to the Princess.
 
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The sad thing was that it was a medical mistake. If the Child died he could have save the Princess his mother who died the day after.
The Doctor committed suicide.
Prince Leopold lost his wife, his son and the British Throne.
 
The revolution would have changed in a lot of ways without Victoria.

If memory serves - and it's been awhile since I read up on the matter - a big part of what pushed Britain and Russia into allying with France in the early 20th century was the German Kaiser - himself a grandson of Queen Victoria. He and his policies weren't well liked.

The assassination of Franz Ferdinand would likely have happened without Victoria's existence, as would the reprisal situation between Austria and Serbia. But, if Wilhelm II hadn't been on the German throne it's possible that the situation wouldn't have exploded as it did, preventing World War One.

While a revolution in Russia was inevitable - Russia and its monarchy weren't modernizing fast enough to keep up with the rest of the world, necessitating revolution - and Nicholas II really wasn't suited for his task, there are a lot of what-ifs that occur here.

Without the War, a big push for the revolution - Russia's military failures under the leadership of the Tsar - would have been removed. This would have drastically altered the revolution, and likely could have prevented the second, Bolshevik revolution. Without the Bolshevik revolution, the USSR would have never been formed and the Romanovs wouldn't have been executed.

But there's more. By marrying Alix, Nicholas found himself a wife who encouraged him to not change the way he ruled - at a time when he needed to be changing. He found a wife who was associated with people, like Rasputin, who did the monarchy a disservice simply through association. He found a wife who carried within her genes an incurable disease that was passed on to his only son and heir.

Part of the reason Alix was a little wacky (okay, more than a little, she was mentally ill - think Rasputin, and her nervousness and all the rest of it) was due to the fact that she was pretty much raised from afar by her very maudlin grandmother, who wanted Alix's mother mourned in much the same way Victoria wanted to mourn Albert - people beating their breasts and all for years to come, instead of allowing life to go on.

Wouldn't you just love to see how the world would have been different had Charlotte lived?
 
Part of the reason Alix was a little wacky (okay, more than a little, she was mentally ill - think Rasputin, and her nervousness and all the rest of it) was due to the fact that she was pretty much raised from afar by her very maudlin grandmother, who wanted Alix's mother mourned in much the same way Victoria wanted to mourn Albert - people beating their breasts and all for years to come, instead of allowing life to go on.

Wouldn't you just love to see how the world would have been different had Charlotte lived?
Before her mother's death, Princess Alix earned the nickname "Princess Sunshine" due to her happy disposition. She was known in the family as "Sunny" as well as "Alicky" for the rest of her life. Nicholas called her "Sunny".
 
There also would have been no Princess Patricia and in turn, no Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. Also the Province of Alberta and Lake Louise would have different names today.

Amazing all the "What if...!?!" That come up, huh?
 
You know what I think, from previous posts. Many on this royal line had porphyria. Charlotte's death may have been brought about by the doctor treating her wrong for a porphyria patient. The strict diet contributed. Then the alcohol during her long delivery. I forget what drugs she had during delivery, if any, which were very likely to have triggered porphyria too. But the doctor's ignorance on this subject really was not his sole fault. The whole medical profession was grossly ignorant of what triggers porphyria attacks, what makes a porphyria patient sicker in a situation like pregnancy and delivery. With proper modern knowledge (which admittedly is hard to find, but perhaps not hard for the royals to find it they need it) Charlotte almost certainly could have had a successful pregnancy and delivery. It was possibly ignorance that killed her, but the ignorance was not unique to her physician.
50% of children of porphyria patients have porphyria. 75% of children whose parents BOTH have porphyria have the tendency. It sometimes does not show itself if it is not triggered. Diet, drugs, and alcohol are all important triggers.
Charlotte's apparent good health before pregnancy is quite common among people who have porphyria, if they have not been triggered into active illness. Charlotte's austere diet was probably the first big trigger.
That's what I think and I know not everyone will agree.
 
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I thought that the labor was to blame, which was allowed to go on for a shockingly long time without intervention, which could have brought about septicemia?
 
Yes, Casualfan, the reported too long delivery could have contributed to her demise. All factors contributed. As an example of co-morbidity, bad infections also trigger porphyria attacks.
 
You know what I think, from previous posts. Many on this royal line had porphyria. Charlotte's death may have been brought about by the doctor treating her wrong for a porphyria patient. The strict diet contributed. Then the alcohol during her long delivery. I forget what drugs she had during delivery, if any, which were very likely to have triggered porphyria too. But the doctor's ignorance on this subject really was not his sole fault. The whole medical profession was grossly ignorant of what triggers porphyria attacks, what makes a porphyria patient sicker in a situation like pregnancy and delivery. With proper modern knowledge (which admittedly is hard to find, but perhaps not hard for the royals to find it they need it) Charlotte almost certainly could have had a successful pregnancy and delivery. It was possibly ignorance that killed her, but the ignorance was not unique to her physician.
50% of children of porphyria patients have porphyria. 75% of children whose parents BOTH have porphyria have the tendency. It sometimes does not show itself if it is not triggered. Diet, drugs, and alcohol are all important triggers.
Charlotte's apparent good health before pregnancy is quite common among people who have porphyria, if they have not been triggered into active illness. Charlotte's austere diet was probably the first big trigger.
That's what I think and I know not everyone will agree.

You're making a few huge errors here.

First of all, your statistics are being misrepresented. If a trait is determined by one gene (G being the dominant and g being the recessive) and a person has parents who are Gg (having it) and gg (not having it) then they have a 50% change of displaying the trait; however if the parents are GG and gg then there is a 100% chance of the child having the trait. Similarly, if both parents are Gg then there is a 75% chance of a child having it, but if one is GG and the other Gg (or both are GG) there is a 100% chance of the child displaying it. However, these statistics are for each individual child; if a Gg and gg couple have 4 children, probability says that 2 of their children will be Gg and 2 will be gg, (if the couple is Gg and Gg then 1 child will be GG, 2 Gg, and 1 gg), but it is entirely possible for other outcomes to happen. While the probability may say one thing, the actual outcome may be entirely different. The genes aren't going "oh, well, the last 2 kids didn't display the trait, so this one needs to." The slate is wiped clean each time.

Therefore, assuming that George III had porphyria and was Gg for it, then each of his children had a 50% chance of getting it. That does not mean that 50% of his children had it, just that they had the chance of having it. Hemophilia is similar, and we can see how that works in Queen Victoria's sons - as Victoria was a carrier and the trait is passed on using the X chromosome it means that each of her sons had a 50% chance of getting the disease - so, according to probability, of her 4 sons, 2 of them should have had hemophilia. Except, only one of her sons had it. Probability isn't always what happens.

Secondly, and this is the biggie to me, it's not actually 100% that George III himself had porphyria, let alone any of his children or grandchildren. There was a hypothesis postulated in 1966 that George III's madness was caused by porphyria. The idea has gained a lot of popularity causing people to beleive that he did in fact have porphyria, but it's still just one theory about the cause of his madness, and not one that's always accepted as valid by historians and psychiatrists. Recently it's been argued that the claim is based on a very selective reading of the sources - as if the people who put the claim forward only looked at evidence that would support their claim.

Now, regardless of whether or not her grandfather did in fact have porphyria it's entirely possible that Charlotte had it... although there doesn't seem to be much evidence of it. Further, the account of her labour is enough to suggest that it really was just the labour that killed her - she went into labour on the 3rd, and didn't deliver until the 5th. Even a less problematic labour would have had a chance of killing her in those days. If memory serves, she hemorrhaged after the birth and they couldn't get the bleeding to stop - which is to this day still a serious threat to women when they give birth and can often require blood transfusions (which they wouldn't have had at the time). Saying that Charlotte died of anything other than complications due to labour is a stretch.
 
Back in 1817 women died in childbirth - strong, healthy women.

I agree that Charlotte suffered a post-partum hemorrhage, something which is treated very easily today. The baby was too large for her, and the poor thing bled out. Not a pleasant end.
 
Yes, Casualfan, the reported too long delivery could have contributed to her demise. All factors contributed. As an example of co-morbidity, bad infections also trigger porphyria attacks.


Very interesting! Thanks for educating us!! ??
 
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Before her marriage to Prince Leopold, Parliament voted that Princess Charlotte was to have 10,000 pounds a year pin money to cover the cost of her clothes and the payment of her ladies and her personal maids.

In Charlotte & Leopold, James Chambers wrote:

Charlotte went to a musical evening at Windsor Castle. When the music was over, one of her aunts, Princess Mary, took her aside and expressed concern for her future.
'I see no chance for you of comfort,' said Princess Mary, 'and certainly not at present as things are, without your marrying.'

In Charlotte & Leopold, James Chambers wrote:

The Grand Duchess Catherine did not like the Prince Regent. But she liked very much his daughter, who was also present. In a letter to her brother the Tsar she described Charlotte as 'the most interesting member of the family'.
 
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Before her marriage to Prince Leopold, Parliament voted that Princess Charlotte was to have 10,000 pounds a year pin money to cover the cost of her clothes and the payment of her ladies and her personal maids.

Not sure what that is in today's money, but as I recall, at about the same time, Mrs. Bennett was quite pleased that Elizabeth was marrying a man with 10,000 a year, no matter how unpleasant she thought him.
 
I couldn't find a conversion that would go back far enough for the pound, but I did find a convertor that put 10,000 US$ in 1820 as equal to 164,132.22 US$ in 2013.
 
A collection of memorabilia devoted to George IV's only child Princess Charlotte, who died giving birth nearly 200 years ago, is to go on sale.

Items up for auction at Stansted Mountfitchet, Essex, include bronze medals commemorating her death inscribed with "Great Britain mourns."

The lots also include a portrait of Charlotte with her husband Prince Leopold - later the king of Belgium.
Read more: George IV's daughter Princess Charlotte items to be sold in Essex - BBC News
 
This was picked up on by some when Charlotte was named. She was, if my memory serves me correctly she was much loved and hugely mourned. There is a reason Royal notices of birth state, '...was safely delivered of...', it is a hangover from when child birth was so dangerous.
 
As per Wikipedia ,following Charlotte's death the whole kingdom went into deep mourning; linen-drapers ran out of black cloth!

I've always been deeply interested in the life and death of Princess Charlotte of Wales.
 
Yes, Charlotte was considered the Hope of the country, and the mourning from everyone seems to have been similar to when Diana died, though in very different circumstances.
If Charlotte's baby had lived he could well have been named George after his grandfather. Therefore there could have been a King George V in the 1860's or thereabouts! Perhaps if Charlotte had gone on to have several children, Albert of Saxe-Coburg could have been in the running for one of the Princesses!

By the way, I'm sure Leopold was offered the throne of Greece several years before the chance to be King of the Belgians came to pass, but there were other candidates and so he withdrew.
 
Prince Leopold lost his wife , his Child and his throne .

Charlotte said that when she shoud be Queen of England , her Husband would be King.

The Doctor commited suicide !

Prince Leopold refused the Throne of Greece and accepted the Belgian Throne.
He married the infortunate Princess Louise Marie d' Orléans who died at 38 years old. Their first Child died, afterwards they had Leopold , Philippe and one daughter called of course Charlotte.
 
Yes, I believe that Leopold and Louise were reasonably happy together, but she knew that nobody could replace Charlotte in his heart. Of course, their daughter Charlotte/Carlotta also had a very tragic life.
 
By the way, I'm sure Leopold was offered the throne of Greece several years before the chance to be King of the Belgians came to pass, but there were other candidates and so he withdrew.


Leopold was offered Greece, but turned it down because he felt the country was too unstable. He proved to be right, the man who ended up taking the throne - Otto of Wittelsbach struggled to maintain control of Greece throughout his reign, and was deposed in 1862. He was replaced by George of Denmark, who was more successful until being assassinated.

Then you have his son, Constantine I, who was exiled twice, his second son (who became king first) Alexander who was a puppet king, and first son George II who was exiled after a military coup. Finally, you have third son Paul, whose reign seems to have been relatively stable, and Paul's son, Constantine II, who faced a coup 3 years into his reign and was forced into exile until being officially being deposed 6 years later.

Charlotte said that when she shoud be Queen of England , her Husband would be King.


Charlotte may have wanted Leopoldo to be King of Britain, but given what happened to Albert when Victoria was Queen, I doubt it would have happened.

A British Queen does not have the power to make her husband King, only Parliament does.
 
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Leopold was offered Greece, but turned it down because he felt the country was too unstable. He proved to be right, the man who ended up taking the throne - Otto of Wittelsbach struggled to maintain control of Greece throughout his reign, and was deposed in 1862. He was replaced by George of Denmark, who was more successful until being assassinated.

Then you have his son, Constantine I, who was exiled twice, his second son (who became king first) Alexander who was a puppet king, and first son George II who was exiled after a military coup. Finally, you have third son Paul, whose reign seems to have been relatively stable, and Paul's son, Constantine II, who faced a coup 3 years into his reign and was forced into exile until being officially being deposed 6 years later.

Ish

I was impressed. You mentioned in one paragraph the history of the monarchy in my country. Eventually Leopold was right monarchy had no luck finally to Greece. ;)
 
Thank you, eya.

I sometimes wonder if the Greek monarchy could have survived with a different Royal Family, or even a different set of heirs; had George I not been assassinated, or if Paul had become king sooner instead of one of his brothers (or lived longer). But then looking at the course of events - the assassination and numerous coups and sending kings into exile... Makes me wonder if Leopold may have made the right decision.
 
I am sure Leopold made the right decision. The Greek throne was never stable, the result of a monarchy being virtually imposed by foreign powers rather than growing organically from the people originally and then putting down roots over the centuries.

Many of the Greek kings did their best. Young George I was so willing to learn and to integrate, learned the language very quickly, and held the throne by sheer force of personality IMO, for decades. However, after his time there were too many disputes, too many disastrous wars.

I feel sorry for Constantine. However, there are some countries that seem to be natural republics to me, and Greece is one of them.
 
I do believe Leopold make the right decision.
Maybe i say maybe the things is different is King Pavlos don't died so early.
But now yes monarchy is very far away for us anymore.
 
It's a lovely dress, though it's sad that white silk changes its colour over time. Charlotte was married in the evening and the silver threads must have sparkled in the candlelight. Magical! Thanks for posting this.

Leopold always said that Victoria reminded him of Charlotte. This can't have been so in physique, however. It's clear that Charlotte was certainly taller than the tiny Victoria, and was a healthy, strapping sort of girl!
 
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Unfortunately her physique did not help her to survive childbirth, so being taller didn't necessarily mean that she had the stronger constitution.

Charlotte's wedding gown is still in the full Empire fashion, with that high waist line and little puffy sleeves. The sparkle of the silver threads is amazing in the pic, even with the coloured material.
 
Yes, it was said that if a girl was born in Western Europe around 1790 she could grow to adulthood without experiencing much change in fashion at all.

That stupid doctor of Charlotte's restricted her diet in late pregnancy and kept bleeding her before she even went into labour. Just appalling!
 
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