The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals > British Royal History

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #81  
Old 03-04-2014, 10:07 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,495
None of the younger brothers of George IV would have felt compelled to marry in all likelihood although someone would possibly have realized that Charlotte couldn't inherit Hannover and so a son would be needed by one of them - maybe the Cambridge's although more likely the Cumberland's.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 03-07-2014, 12:24 AM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,184
Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
I often wonder what the BRF would be like had Charlotte not died. We will never know.

Victoria would never have been born; that is a given. I'm not sure we'd have had Mary Adelaide of Cambridge, mother of Queen Mary either.
You bring up an interesting point and have got me thinking.

It's not just the BRF that would be different, but roughly half the thrones of Europe, and even potentially the whole world.

If Charlotte hadn't died there would have been no reason for her uncles William, Edward, or Adolphus to get married and have children (her uncle Ernest Augustus was already married and likely would have still had children).

There aren't huge implications for William not having married as he didn't have any children in his marriage, but Adolphus' line continues to exist today, and not just through the descendants of Mary of Teck (although without her we wouldn't have the current BRF).

Even bigger though is what the world would be like without Victoria. No Edward VII or any of his descendants. Which means no modern BRF and no modern Norweigan Royals (who descend from Edward's daughter, Maud).

No Victoria, and then there's no Wilhelm II of Germany - and thus potentially no World War I. You have to wonder how the world would be shaped without that one. Furthermore, Wilhelm's sister married Constantine I of Greece, so the shape of the modern Greek Royal Family would be changed - three of her sons became King of Greece, and her grandson was the last king/current pretender. One of her daughters married into the Romanian Royal Family and was the mother of the last king/current pretender.

Another one of Victoria's daughters, Alice, was the mother of another Victoria, who married into the Battenberg-turned-Mountbatten family, meaning no Lord Mountbatten, no Prince Phillip, and no Louise Mounbatten, Queen Consort of Sweden. Alice was also the mother of Alix of Hesse who married Nicholas II of Russia and introduced hemophilia to the Romanovs. Gotta wonder how history would have been different had Nicholas married someone else.

Victoria's son, Alfred, had a daughter, Marie, who gave birth to a King of Romania (Carol II), a Queen of Greece (Helen), and a Queen of Yugoslavia (Maria). The modern Romanian and Yugoslavian Royal Families descend from her. Another of Alfred's daughters married Cyril Vladimirovich and is the grandmother of everyone's favourite claimant to the throne of Russia, Maria Vladimirovna.


Another son of Victoria, Arthur, fathered a daughter (Margaret) who married the King of Sweden, and the modern SRF descends from them. Also descending from them is Margrethe II of Denmark and Anne-Marie, Queen Consort to Constantine II of Greece.

Victoria's youngest child, Beatrice, was the mother of Victoria Eugenie, Queen Consort of Spain and wife of Alfonso XIII. Juan Carlos I is their grandson, so there goes the current Spanish Royal Family.

But there are other implications too. The Belgium Royal Family is not descended from Queen Victoria, but they are descended from Leopold I of Belgium. Leopold was Charlotte's husband, and likely would have never became King of Belgium had Charlotte lived - and certainly wouldn't have fathered any of his children, including the son from whom the Royal Family descends, as they were all born to his second wife.

The other interesting aspect is the Kingdom of Hanover itself. If Charlotte had survived then she would have been the first woman in a position to inherit the throne - as history went, no Hanoverian monarch had only a daughter to inherit his titles. The only woman to come close (at that point) was Victoria - but it wasn't really in her uncle's interest to change the law of succession so that his niece could inherit all his titles over his brother. Had Charlotte lived into her father's reign, however, it may have been more in George's interest to have that changed - he surely would have preferred his child, even a daughter, to inherit his throne in Hanover over his brother.

If the Hanoverian throne hadn't been separated from the British one then you have to wonder would German unification have happened under a Prussian dominance? And if it hadn't happened under the Prussians, who would it have happened, or would it have happened at all? How would 20th century history have turned out had it not happened?
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 03-07-2014, 12:27 AM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
None of the younger brothers of George IV would have felt compelled to marry in all likelihood although someone would possibly have realized that Charlotte couldn't inherit Hannover and so a son would be needed by one of them - maybe the Cambridge's although more likely the Cumberland's.


Three of George's younger brothers wouldn't have been compelled to marry - William, Edward, and Adolphus.

Two of George's younger brothers had married before Charlotte's death - Frederick in 1791 and Ernest Augustus in 1815. Ernest Augustus likely would have still ensured the future of the Hanoverian throne had Charlotte lived and George not taken moves to allow his daughter to inherit over his brother.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 03-07-2014, 01:40 AM
Tarlita's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: small town near Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 702
You are quite right Ish; The 20th century would have had a very different history if Charlotte had lived. Also there may not have been a Russian revolution as the last Tsarina Alexandra was the daughter of Alice a daughter of Queen Victoria.
__________________
Pierre Laval, Premiere of France 1934-1936. Famous for wearing a washable white tie that was never washed.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 03-24-2014, 05:20 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 1,393
Before he married Princess Charlotte, in Brighton Prince Leopold spent several hours each day learning English, at which his vocabulary and grammar were soon much better than his pronunciation.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 03-24-2014, 07:08 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Orleans, United States
Posts: 1,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarlita View Post
You are quite right Ish; The 20th century would have had a very different history if Charlotte had lived. Also there may not have been a Russian revolution as the last Tsarina Alexandra was the daughter of Alice a daughter of Queen Victoria.

I don't understand-the revolution in Russia was due to a lot of factors other than the Tsarina being a descendant of Victoria.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 03-24-2014, 11:44 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,184
Quote:
Originally Posted by casualfan View Post
I don't understand-the revolution in Russia was due to a lot of factors other than the Tsarina being a descendant of Victoria.

The revolution would have changed in a lot of ways without Victoria.

If memory serves - and it's been awhile since I read up on the matter - a big part of what pushed Britain and Russia into allying with France in the early 20th century was the German Kaiser - himself a grandson of Queen Victoria. He and his policies weren't well liked.

The assassination of Franz Ferdinand would likely have happened without Victoria's existence, as would the reprisal situation between Austria and Serbia. But, if Wilhelm II hadn't been on the German throne it's possible that the situation wouldn't have exploded as it did, preventing World War One.

While a revolution in Russia was inevitable - Russia and its monarchy weren't modernizing fast enough to keep up with the rest of the world, necessitating revolution - and Nicholas II really wasn't suited for his task, there are a lot of what-ifs that occur here.

Without the War, a big push for the revolution - Russia's military failures under the leadership of the Tsar - would have been removed. This would have drastically altered the revolution, and likely could have prevented the second, Bolshevik revolution. Without the Bolshevik revolution, the USSR would have never been formed and the Romanovs wouldn't have been executed.

But there's more. By marrying Alix, Nicholas found himself a wife who encouraged him to not change the way he ruled - at a time when he needed to be changing. He found a wife who was associated with people, like Rasputin, who did the monarchy a disservice simply through association. He found a wife who carried within her genes an incurable disease that was passed on to his only son and heir.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 03-25-2014, 01:10 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Albuquerque, United States
Posts: 14
I finished reading "Princesses" today, a book about the daughters of George III (Charlotte's grandfather.) What a sad life most of them lived...he would not permit them to marry. Finally the eldest, known as Royal, was allowed, at age thirty, but she was the only one who married until many years later, when past child-bearing age. At least two of the daughters fell in love with men they never would be allowed to marry, and these two remained single their entire lives. And then once their father had his first episode of illness, their mother the queen changed completely, from a charming, busy loving mother to a short-tempered mean-spirited and spiteful woman. This atmosphere last for decades.

Hard to imagine that if Charlotte had lived, Victoria would never have existed. Or even if Charlotte had lived a few more years, since Victoria's father died less than a year after her birth.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 04-08-2014, 10:22 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Hamilton, Canada
Posts: 465
Princess Charlotte, tragic daughter of George IV (1796-1817)

Almost four years ago, one of the girls on my school's volleyball team, Rachel, was killed in a tragic car accident at the same age, 21, and she was seven months pregnant with a baby girl whom she had named Kaylee Elaine (Elaine after her mother). She had just finished her fourth and final year with the team that March, and they won a bronze medal at provincials. They retired her number 5 jersey, had it framed, and displayed it at every home game the next season. Her sister Kristin just finished her four years at age 22 this February, along with the other three rookies that started the season after Rachel died (they didn't make the playoffs this year).

In memory of Rachel Marie (and unborn Kaylee Elaine) VanHartingsveldt; December 19, 1988 - May 3, 2010

Never Alone
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 04-21-2014, 08:47 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 1,393
Princess Charlotte asked her Aunt Mary what she thought of Prince Leopold.
Princess Mary remarked: "From what I saw of him, he was good looking. A very gentlemanlike young man."
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 04-21-2014, 09:09 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Posts: 2,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beberoyal View Post
I finished reading "Princesses" today, a book about the daughters of George III (Charlotte's grandfather.) What a sad life most of them lived...
Ironic, isn't it? The King and Queen always attempted to display themselves as such a perfect family, but the sons became dissolute rakes and the daughters embittered spinsters.
You have to wonder what George III was thinking!

(Perhaps it was a case of the dog in the manger, since he himself was not allowed to marry his first love, Sarah Lennox).
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 04-21-2014, 09:54 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,184
I always thought that the way his children were treated in respects to prospective marriages was owing more to a combination of the less than favourable results of the marriages of George's siblings (particularly Caroline Matilda) and George's own mental instability.

Under the Royal Marriages Act, George's children couldn't marry without his permission. He didn't want to ship his daughters off to foreign courts to be mistreated, and I don't think his sons really cared about marrying the "right" women. As such, the sons took mistresses and the daughters remained unmarried (at least for the most part). Whatever desire to seek out appropriate marriages that wouldn't result in his daughters becoming like his sisters that George had was negated by his mental instability - he couldn't find them brides while insane.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 04-22-2014, 07:29 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 1,393
Princess Charlotte's aunt, Princess Sophia felt that Prince Leopold would not do as a husband for Charlotte.
Princess Sophia's reason was that Leopold, according to her, did not have any money.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 05-19-2014, 08:54 PM
XeniaCasaraghi's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 1729 Noneofyourbusiness Drive, United States
Posts: 2,349
Jeeze what's up with the German princes having no money.
Anyway, I wonder how Charlotte ended up such a well rounded girl with a father like that and barely seeing her mother.
__________________
Princess Grace, April 19, 1956
Princess Margaret Rose, May 6, 1960
Crown Princess Mette-Marit, August 25, 2001
Jaqueline Bouvier Kennedy, September 12, 1953
Countess Stephanie of Belgium October 20, 2012
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 05-21-2014, 09:33 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 1,393
When Leopold and Charlotte assembled their own staff, Dr. Christian Stockmar, Leopold's personal physician, became the Prince's Secretary, Comptroller of his Household and Keeper of his Privy Purse.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 06-08-2014, 06:23 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 1,393
Lord Castlereagh and Lord Lauderdale agreed that Prince Leopold was a man of the highest principles and an ideal husband for their future queen (Charlotte).
Lord Lauderdale confirmed that Leopold was partial to Princess Charlotte.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 06-09-2014, 06:11 AM
maria-olivia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 2,241
The sad thing was that it was a medical mistake. If the Child died he could have save the Princess his mother who died the day after.
The Doctor committed suicide.
Prince Leopold lost his wife, his son and the British Throne.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 06-10-2014, 08:39 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 1,393
When the Morning Chronicle announced that Miss Cornelia Knight had been appointed sub-governess to Princess Charlotte, Miss Knight felt that the statement should be retracted and state that she had been appointed as "lady companion" to the Princess.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 06-10-2014, 11:18 PM
GracieGiraffe's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Giraffe Land, United States
Posts: 1,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
The revolution would have changed in a lot of ways without Victoria.

If memory serves - and it's been awhile since I read up on the matter - a big part of what pushed Britain and Russia into allying with France in the early 20th century was the German Kaiser - himself a grandson of Queen Victoria. He and his policies weren't well liked.

The assassination of Franz Ferdinand would likely have happened without Victoria's existence, as would the reprisal situation between Austria and Serbia. But, if Wilhelm II hadn't been on the German throne it's possible that the situation wouldn't have exploded as it did, preventing World War One.

While a revolution in Russia was inevitable - Russia and its monarchy weren't modernizing fast enough to keep up with the rest of the world, necessitating revolution - and Nicholas II really wasn't suited for his task, there are a lot of what-ifs that occur here.

Without the War, a big push for the revolution - Russia's military failures under the leadership of the Tsar - would have been removed. This would have drastically altered the revolution, and likely could have prevented the second, Bolshevik revolution. Without the Bolshevik revolution, the USSR would have never been formed and the Romanovs wouldn't have been executed.

But there's more. By marrying Alix, Nicholas found himself a wife who encouraged him to not change the way he ruled - at a time when he needed to be changing. He found a wife who was associated with people, like Rasputin, who did the monarchy a disservice simply through association. He found a wife who carried within her genes an incurable disease that was passed on to his only son and heir.
Part of the reason Alix was a little wacky (okay, more than a little, she was mentally ill - think Rasputin, and her nervousness and all the rest of it) was due to the fact that she was pretty much raised from afar by her very maudlin grandmother, who wanted Alix's mother mourned in much the same way Victoria wanted to mourn Albert - people beating their breasts and all for years to come, instead of allowing life to go on.

Wouldn't you just love to see how the world would have been different had Charlotte lived?
__________________
The future George VII's opinion on infant carriers,
"One is not amused."
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 06-12-2014, 06:48 PM
LauraS3514's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Jose, CA, United States
Posts: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
Part of the reason Alix was a little wacky (okay, more than a little, she was mentally ill - think Rasputin, and her nervousness and all the rest of it) was due to the fact that she was pretty much raised from afar by her very maudlin grandmother, who wanted Alix's mother mourned in much the same way Victoria wanted to mourn Albert - people beating their breasts and all for years to come, instead of allowing life to go on.

Wouldn't you just love to see how the world would have been different had Charlotte lived?
Before her mother's death, Princess Alix earned the nickname "Princess Sunshine" due to her happy disposition. She was known in the family as "Sunny" as well as "Alicky" for the rest of her life. Nicholas called her "Sunny".
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
biography, british history, george iv, line of succession, princess charlotte


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
George III (1738-1820) and Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz (1744-1818) Lady Jennifer British Royal History 101 09-14-2014 06:33 AM
Marina Mowatt (1966- ) and Family [daughter of Princess Alexandra] iowabelle British Royals 86 08-04-2010 07:33 AM
Princess Marie (1876-1940), later Grand Duchess Maria Georgievna of Russia George Greek Royal History 22 07-22-2010 11:29 AM
Princess Helen of Greece, daughter of Constantine I (1896-1982) geli Greek Royal History 21 01-29-2010 11:56 PM
A daughter for princess Märtha Louise and Ari Behn tiger Princess Märtha Louise and Ari Behn and family 35 04-14-2005 05:48 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit duchess of cambridge dutch royal history engagement fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king constantine ii king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games olympics ottoman picture of the month pom prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince felipe prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess astrid princess beatrix princess charlene princess claire princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess marilene princess mary queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit the hague visit wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:55 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]