Princess Charlotte, tragic daughter of George IV (1796-1817)

[Zonk]

So after Charlotte's death, Leopold was offered the opportunity to become King of the Belgians.

I wonder if this opportunity would have been presented if Charlotte didn't die so young. I can't imagine the English excited about having another foreign prince who could have dragged them into the affairs of Europe. (i.e. Mary I and Phillip of Spain;
Mary II and William III).

And props to Leopolds second wife, it takes a strong woman (or a woman who had no choice I guess) to name your daughter have your husbands dead first wife.

[iowabelle]

My guess is that if Charlotte had survived and succeeded to the throne, that Leopold would have served as a consort a la Prince Albert, and never gotten a throne of his own. Instead, he had to get his own kingdom and be the meddlesome uncle in the UK.

[Vasillisos Markos]

Originally Posted by Zonk

So after Charlotte's death, Leopold was offered the opportunity to become King of the Belgians.

He appears to have been well liked by the members of the House of Hanover and may have been offered the throne as a way of extending a sphere of influence from both the United Kingdom and the German Hanoverian province.

I wonder if this opportunity would have been presented if Charlotte didn't die so young. I can't imagine the English excited about having another foreign prince who could have dragged them into the affairs of Europe. (i.e. Mary I and Phillip of Spain; Mary II and William III).

I concur with your views. It is unlikely that a consort to the Sovereign would ever be allowed to take a foreign throne by invitation. Leopold by all accounts was a superb statesman and I believe that he, like Albert, would have relished being the power (to some extent) behind the throne of England and thus would probably not be interested in being a foreign ruler. As it was, he guided his young niece until Albert arrived to continue her schooling in statesmanship and leading the country.

[Marsel]

If Princess Charlotte survived, there was no way Leopold would have been offered the Belgian Throne. It was not a matter of tolerance - the biggest and most influential party that backed Leopold’s candidacy during The National Congress of 1830 (when the future of Belgium was decided) was Britain. If Charlotte were still alive, Britain would certainly choose someone other than the spouse of the future Monarch of their country. Moreover, other countries, especially France and the Netherlands, would have never supported Leopold’s candidacy as it would mean too much British influence in Belgium: indeed, Leopold and Charlotte’s son would one day become King of both countries.

King George IV was always very fond of his son-in-law, even after Charlotte’s death: a token of the affection can be seen in the fact that King George (then Prince Regent) granted Prince Leopold the style of Royal Highness a year after Princess Charlotte’s death.
Although George IV died months before the National Congress started, his successor, King William IV, knew and appreciated Leopold as well: he was also well-aware of Leopold’s pro-British views and spirit, so his representatives actively supported Leopold’s candidacy.

It should be noted, however, that Britain was not the only major power that supported Leopold: Russia was also ‘fighting’ for Leopold’s case (who had ties with Russia, was a Lieutenant General in the Imperial Russian Army and had fought on the Russian side during Napoleon Russian Campaign), the Netherlands viewed Leopold as the most acceptable among the candidates (their candidate, Auguste de Beauharnais, 2nd Duke of Leuchtenberg, was deemed ‘unacceptable’ by both British and French), and even France withdrew its initial opposition and supported Leopold during the later stages of the Congress (it is often rumoured that this was done only after his engagement to Marie-Louise of France, the eldest daughter of King Louis-Philippe of France, was agreed on – even though Leopold was in a morganatic at the time).

[Zonk]

Thanks all for the information especially you Marsel! Awesome!

It does make sense that if Charlotte had lived, Leopold most likely wouldn't have been offered the throne.

Again, the What If's are amazing. If Charlotte had lived most likely Elizabeth II woudln't be on the throne...but then again...Victoria was her cousin...but as mentioned before......Victoria only came to be because Charlotte no longer was.

[Vasillisos Markos]

Marsel,

Brilliant summation!

[Marsel]

You are most welcome, Zonk and Vasillisos Markos!
I've always been greatly interested in the short and tragic life of Prince Charlotte: as Zonk said, there are so many What If's connected with her life, and especially her untimely death, you just can't stop wondering how little things sometimes change the course of History.

[Grace Angel]

I think sometimes it's the what ifs that make history so very fascinating. We think everything might have been better perhaps had such and such not happened. It's true though that Queen Victoria was a good ruler for England, however, when people die young and tragically with much ahead of them as Charlotte did, it's always easy to see unrealized potential, although certainly she had some.

[iowabelle]

Charlotte might have wound up as mercurial and goofy as her father and other Hanoverian relatives, we really don't have much to measure her potential against.

[Grace Angel]

Very true. Mercurial and goofy are both good words to describe that generation of the RF. Queen Victoria finally gave the throne some respectability. Perhaps Charlotte would have done the same, we just don't know.

[iowabelle]

I think QV just covered up most of the Hanoverian goofiness. Just look at her PoW and then the Duke of Clarence... not to mention her own withdrawal from society. I guess domesticity isn't as entertaining to me as expensive and bad taste, and bigamy, infidelity and other excesses.

[Katrianna]

To back track, Charlotte's baby was in a transverse position which meant that the baby was in a horizontal lie in the uterus which even a forceps delivery couldn't help. For transverse deliveries now, a C-section is performed unless the baby sometimes flips as labor progresses, but it's very very rare. So poor Charlotte and her baby didn't have much of a chance.

[Lumutqueen]

Just been reading about Charlotte and she went through a 50-hour labour to deliver her stillborn baby. How awful that must have been.

[Grace Angel]

Originally Posted by iowabelle

I think QV just covered up most of the Hanoverian goofiness. Just look at her PoW and then the Duke of Clarence... not to mention her own withdrawal from society. I guess domesticity isn't as entertaining to me as expensive and bad taste, and bigamy, infidelity and other excesses.

It's Queen Victoria and her family though that tend to get remembered more than the Hanoverians, so though the Hanoverians were more entertaining, Queen Victoria and her family get more remembered. I agree Queen Victoria was instrumental in fostering the image of respectability that the RF has tried to maintain until this day, with varying degrees of sucess, both in Queen Victoria's time ( her son and grandson as you pointed out, weren't exactly models of domisticity), and in the present day. It's interesting to wonder how Charlotte would have shaped the image of the RF.

[Vecchiolarry]

Hi,

I'd like to think that Charlotte would have been a 'good queen' & domesticated like Victoria.
She had a great marriage with Leopold and was distancing herself away from her parents. She was probably embarrassed and fedup with both of them and their antics and wanted a tranquil home life.

I like to give her the benefit of the doubt and think she would have turned out alright...

Larry

[iowabelle]

From what I've read, Charlotte was a pretty spoiled young girl who acted out quite a bit, until she married Leopold... so who knows what she would have evolved into.

So I'm wondering if she could have made it with a C-section, which had to have been a pretty hazardous procedure, given the lack of antibiotics, proper hygiene, and blood transfusions.

[Vasillisos Markos]

Leopold was a good influence on his niece, Queen Victoria. No doubt he would have had a similar influence on Charlotte.

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by iowabelle

I'm wondering if she could have made it with a C-section, which had to have been a pretty hazardous procedure, given the lack of antibiotics, proper hygiene, and blood transfusions.

Dangerous yes but impossible no.
C-Sections have been carried out for a couple of thousand years not always successfully but successfully enough for them to be continued.
The doctor should have done one - it couldn't have been worse and who knows it might have worked and I think he realised that (or at least that he should have done something) as he committed suicide not long afterwards if my memory serves me correctly,

[sirhon11234]

He sadly did. Back then C-sections were risky I wouldn't want to be the woman under that knife.

[Iluvbertie]

Risky yes but they had been successful since before the birth of Christ so it wasn't as if the technique wasn't unknown.
Given a definite death sentence over a possible death sentence I know which one I would choose - a small chance is better than none.