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  #41  
Old 03-30-2010, 09:15 PM
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Exactly. That's what I thought you meant. I was just making sure you meant politically and publicly, rather than personally, emotionally, and privately. Sorry about that. :)
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  #42  
Old 03-31-2010, 07:13 PM
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I just finished Tsar: The Lost World of Nicholas and Alexandra by my Peter (hadn't read it since it had first come out back in 1997) and one is struck by the love that Nicholas and Alexandra had for each other and their children. That being said, however, Alexandra took a little too harsh line with her children in isolating them entirely too much from society. Yes, we all knew that Russian society was decadent in morals and wealth though how in the world were those girls supposed to take care of themselves if they were never exposed to it?? they absolutely had no clue how to socialize or comport themselves in polite society. That was a travesty.
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  #43  
Old 04-01-2010, 03:22 AM
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Guys, this thread is for the Grand Duchess of Hesse and by Rhine, not Nicholas and Alexandra.
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  #44  
Old 04-01-2010, 02:31 PM
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Although the early death of Princess Alice of Hesse und Rhine may have contributed to Alexandra's upbringing and the way she isolated her children.

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  #45  
Old 04-01-2010, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by CarolinaLandgrave View Post
She didnt seem to mind so much when Louis married (the third time) with a lady of a more acceptable rank... did she?
Am somewhat puzzled as to who this third wife could be, as to my knowledge the Grand Duke Louis IV only married the twice.....
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  #46  
Old 04-01-2010, 03:11 PM
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Wasn't the second marriage annulled due to its morganatic status?
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  #47  
Old 04-01-2010, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos View Post
Wasn't the second marriage annulled due to its morganatic status?
I do know from Warwick's Ella, that Victoria pressured that marriage be annulled using those grounds.
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  #48  
Old 04-02-2010, 05:38 AM
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Although the early death of Princess Alice of Hesse und Rhine may have contributed to Alexandra's upbringing and the way she isolated her children.
That's drawing a long bow!
Not content with having an entire forum at the disposal of the Romanovs, they must now be fended off from taking over tiny Hesse-Darmstadt.
Almost as expansionist as the Prussians!
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  #49  
Old 04-02-2010, 05:56 AM
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Wasn't the second marriage annulled due to its morganatic status?
Oh yes, it was quite a little scandal. As I introduced the Prussians in my previous post, I'll continue with them...

from Hanna Pakula's An Uncommon Woman - The Empress Frederick, paperback p413

"The Crown Prince [of Prussia] did not approve of another marriage about to take place between Sandro's older brother, Prince Louis of Battenberg, and Princess Victoria of Hesse, the daughter of Vicky's deceased sister, Alice. The celebration in Darmstadt in April of 1884 - a major royal event, owing to the presence of Queen Victoria - was treated by the Kaiser and Kaiserin as a royal calamity, since the Hesses were closely related to the Hohenzollerns. When, on the evening of his daughter's wedding, the widowed Grand Duke Louis secretly married a pretty divorcée, the Kaiserin ordered all the Hohenzollerns at the wedding to leave Louis's "contaminated court" immediately and return to Berlin.

Even though Louis bowed to family pressure and had his marriage annulled...A wave of indignation against the Battenbergs, spearheaded by Willy, surged through Hohenzollern ranks."
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  #50  
Old 04-02-2010, 01:53 PM
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That's drawing a long bow!
Not content with having an entire forum at the disposal of the Romanovs, they must now be fended off from taking over tiny Hesse-Darmstadt.
Almost as expansionist as the Prussians!
Why Warren, are you accusing me of being a rabble rouser???


I checked in Warwick's Ella and there was no other marriages. I did not know about the marriage to Princess Victoria, though. Russo is horribly deficient where Empress Vicky is concerned.

Russo's take is that poor Louis was beaten into submission by Granny, annulled the marriage to his love, and didn't try again. Who would with the power Victoria weilded?? The kids, (from Warwick) said they were supportive of their father's happiness.
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  #51  
Old 04-13-2010, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Warren View Post
from Hanna Pakula's An Uncommon Woman - The Empress Frederick, paperback p413

"...A wave of indignation against the Battenbergs, spearheaded by Willy, surged through Hohenzollern ranks."
Not only through Hohenzollern ranks . The Romanov weren't exactly polite or firendly with the Battenbergs, largely because of political reasons .If I remember correctly, one time, while Victoria and Louis were visiting her sister Elisabeth, the Tsar had a banquet and the were invited. Victoria sat among the Grand dukes and Grand Duchesses, while Louis was placed with the Russian naval Officers. What a nice way to treat guests ....
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  #52  
Old 04-13-2010, 06:47 PM
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Not only through Hohenzollern ranks . The Romanov weren't exactly polite or firendly with the Battenbergs, largely because of political reasons .If I remember correctly, one time, while Victoria and Louis were visiting her sister Elisabeth, the Tsar had a banquet and the were invited. Victoria sat among the Grand dukes and Grand Duchesses, while Louis was placed with the Russian naval Officers. What a nice way to treat guests ....
Indeed that is pushing it though Victoria WAS the sister of the Empress and Grand Duchess Serge.
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  #53  
Old 04-13-2010, 06:53 PM
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At the time Nicky and Alix weren't married yet and Alexander was still alive (and the curent Tsar), I should have clarified it. But still, it seems largely insulting to behave like this to a brother in law of a Grand Duchess.
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  #54  
Old 04-13-2010, 08:32 PM
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But aren't we talking about Willy? If one can be insulting to one's mother, an uncle (a Prince of Wales) why wouldn't he insult the Grand Duke?

It is a shame that Alice died so young...one wonders how Alix would have turned out if her mother played more of a role in her life. Although I do think the Hesse children spent a lot of time in England. I wonder if Elizabeth would have married the GD Serge as well.
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Old 04-14-2010, 09:25 AM
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It is a shame that Alice died so young...one wonders how Alix would have turned out if her mother played more of a role in her life. Although I do think the Hesse children spent a lot of time in England. I wonder if Elizabeth would have married the GD Serge as well.
She would have definitely turned out differently - losing her mother had a big impact on her. Before Alice's death , she was reported to be a happy child , but that changed after Alice's and Marie's death. She would probably be less shy and reserved and , if she was alive when Alix got married to Nicholas, Alice would have tried to protect her daughter from self isolating herserlf in the Russian Court. I don't think that Alix would have cut herself from her mother , so perhaps a reprimand from Alice would have worked in many matters. Not to mention that, given her nursing experience and skills, Alice could have realised that Rasputin was just playing with her grandson's mind and that he wasn't offering an actual cure and save the family from his influence and a lot of pain and trouble.....
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  #56  
Old 04-14-2010, 12:59 PM
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I believe Alice would have trained her daughter better to be the consort of an Emporer would she have survived. As it was, the older girls had all the training or near enough to go into their positions at the courts they landed at with little difficulty. Granted they were in the position Alix ended up in though they knew enough to comport themselves and acquit themselves quite well.
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  #57  
Old 04-14-2010, 10:24 PM
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Another one of the fascinating "what ifs" of history, eh? Losing a parent at such a young age would have some effect on anyone, unless there was a maternal figure to take her place and that never occurred with Alix. However, Alix's religious obsession might still have made her cling to Rasputin if she believed that would save her son.
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  #58  
Old 04-17-2010, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos View Post
Wasn't the second marriage annulled due to its morganatic status?
well i have read that, Queen Victoria had the marriage annulled, because she was upset and disapproved of her son in law marrying a divorced woman, the Queen judged her as belonging to the demi - monde !.

the Queens conduct on this occasion does not reflect her views on morganatic marriages at all. one must remember she allowed quite a few of her descendants to marry spouses who was of morganatic status!

btw didnt the grand duke after their divorce, pay his former wife off with a large amount of money ?
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  #59  
Old 04-17-2010, 06:00 PM
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Did the Grand Duke have much money? I had assumed the family had to watch their expenditures when Alice was alive and although not poor, neither were they rich.
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  #60  
Old 04-17-2010, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos View Post
Another one of the fascinating "what ifs" of history, eh? Losing a parent at such a young age would have some effect on anyone, unless there was a maternal figure to take her place and that never occurred with Alix. However, Alix's religious obsession might still have made her cling to Rasputin if she believed that would save her son.

I do suspect that if her mother had lived longer that Alix might never have become that religious - not that she wouldn't have been a Christian but that it would have been a more moderate form than it took.
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