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  #81  
Old 11-15-2007, 02:31 PM
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Who were his Godparents
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  #82  
Old 11-15-2007, 03:39 PM
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Google is your friend. So is Wikipedia.

"His godparents were: Queen Victoria, Leopold I of Belgium, Christian IX of Denmark, the Duchess of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, the Crown Princess of Prussia, Prince Alfred, the Elector of Hesse and the Dowager Duchess of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg."


Prince Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence and Avondale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #83  
Old 11-15-2007, 09:17 PM
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I am surprised that my posts have been read as 'malicious' as I certainly am not maliciously predisposed towards the Royal Family, or how, indeed, one can be malicious towards someone who's been dead for about 115 years. As he has no direct descendants, my comments can hardly be thought to reflect adversely on anyone else.

To me, facts are facts, and after many years of research in one area or another, I'm now comfortable in believing something if provenance can be shown or sufficient evidence unearthed or if people's quotes can be verified. Often, if those whose opinions and views I value, concur, then I tend to be accepting of them. I am always alert, however, to the indisputable fact that even experts can and do disagree.

Nonetheless, I do not think that Eddy's death, unpleasant as it was, was anything other than a relief to many of his family. Nor do I need to be informed of the almost unfathomable grief that a mother suffers at the death of a child.

I was reminded, too, of the awfulness of his future nephew, little Prince John's lonely and tragic life. I can imagine nothing more painful and cruel than Johnny's being ripped from his family and kept in isolation on the Sandringham estate with his nurse and servants until he died. Very sick children, more than anything, want and need their mothers. Prince John, was, simply an embarrassment to the monarchy and his family and bundled right out of sight. He rarely saw his parents, poor little man, and died quite alone. However, if you look him up on Wikipedia, you will learn how sunny his disposition was and how much he enjoyed his very pleasant life of exile and how devoted his family was to him. I think it a masterpiece of spin, but his is another story.

In each their own way, Eddy's and little John's stories are two of the reasons why I value and like our sensitive and caring Prince Charles so very much. I'm often critical of him, too, though I'd strenuously contest any view that I was ever maliciously disposed towards him.
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  #84  
Old 11-15-2007, 10:02 PM
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To be fair though, it's only been fairly recently that families have been encouraged to keep their physically and/or mentally challenged children with them and not put them in institutions. By our standards, what the Royals did with Prince John is somewhat cruel, but I imagine back then that's what happened.

Didn't the Queen Mother have a couple of mentally challenged nieces who were discovered to be living in a home for the disabled even though they were officially listed as deceased by the Bowes-Lyon family? And the actor Michael Caine discovered a few years ago he had an older brother who was mentally challenged and put into a mental institution before Caine was born.
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  #85  
Old 11-16-2007, 01:24 AM
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Yes, that's absolutely right about 'problem' family members being hidden away in the past.

The difference, I think, in this case is that Prince John's brothers knew him well, and apparently, missed him very much. In a recent dramatization of his young life, it was claimed that David (Edward VIII) wanted his brother home with them all. Indeed, when he, David, Duke of Windsor died, young John's photos were found amongst his belongings.

In the instance of the Queen Mother's cousins (I think that they were), Her Majesty had no idea that they existed! Nor, for that matter, did Sir Michael know about his brother!

In all this, I do have a great deal of sympathy for Queen Mary.
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  #86  
Old 11-16-2007, 11:10 AM
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I believe the Queen Mother did know about her two cousins. She was very friendly with her brother John's other children and it is highly unlikely that a new baby could be born into that family with others not being aware of it as they were very close. The two girls were missing a vital nerve in their brains which was a genetic defect inherited from their mother's family. John and Fenella's other children were normal, one of whom, Anne, (mother of Lord Lichfield) married as her second husband a Prince of Denmark. The two girls were kept at home for as long as possible, but when they began to be a danger to themselves and others they were sent to live in a hospital where they could be cared for and kept out of harm's way.

As far as Prince John, I have very little sympathy for either Queen Mary or King George as pertains to John, or indeed any of their children. They were disastrous parents, and rarely saw Prince John. He was in the care of his nanny, Lala Bill at all times. Prince George was the closest in age to him and used to play with him, and the others only saw him occasionally, but they were much older. Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone, described John as "very droll". He once commented after Queen Mary kissed King George, "She kissed Papa, ugly old man!"
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  #87  
Old 11-16-2007, 07:47 PM
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Albert Victor and May

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
No pics on this page, so here's two more.
(copyright expired, Public Domain)

Duke of Clarence
1 formal shot
2 with Princess May of Teck
I have never seen that second photograph. It is very nice. I think part of AV's problem was that he was somewhat deaf. That could account for his lack of learning. I wish there was film of him not just still photographs. This is a bit off topic but, does anyone know if there exists a recording of Edward VII's voice? There are some sound recordings from that time period (1901-1910). Thanks.
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  #88  
Old 11-17-2007, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra RI View Post
I have never seen that second photograph. It is very nice. I think part of AV's problem was that he was somewhat deaf. That could account for his lack of learning.
His mother, Princess Alexandra, was profoundly deaf. There has never been any suggestion that she was uneducated, ignorant, or unintelligent. She had been beautifully raised by enlightened and compassionate parents, and it showed!
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  #89  
Old 11-17-2007, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by lilibet80 View Post

As far as Prince John, I have very little sympathy for either Queen Mary or King George as pertains to John, or indeed any of their children.
I agree, in sum. However, Queen Mary was, above all, a singularly devoted wife, and truly believed that her duty was to her husband, the King. If she put her loyalty to him before her obligations to her children, why! who are we to cavil, at this very late stage? Historically, that is indeed how the world was: husband first!

Contemplating the difficulties of the Windsor's lives, I grieve, especially, for the late George VI ,as I know that his was a difficult and painful young life and that his parents caused it. But, I am also encouraged that the current reign has exemplified all that is humane and forbearing, allowing children, and the children of children, to celebrate being their own selves. This wouldn't have been possible or even conceivable, earlier.

It's actually one of Her Majesty's greatest accomplishments. I hope that, one day, others will appreciate just how remarkable and special this Queen has been. I think her a bastion of understanding and tolerance which most certainly exempflies a warm and human predisposition
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  #90  
Old 11-17-2007, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly View Post
His mother, Princess Alexandra, was profoundly deaf. There has never been any suggestion that she was uneducated, ignorant, or unintelligent. She had been beautifully raised by enlightened and compassionate parents, and it showed!

ABSOLUTLY beautifully stated.
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  #91  
Old 11-17-2007, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra RI View Post
I have never seen that second photograph. It is very nice. I think part of AV's problem was that he was somewhat deaf. That could account for his lack of learning. I wish there was film of him not just still photographs. This is a bit off topic but, does anyone know if there exists a recording of Edward VII's voice? There are some sound recordings from that time period (1901-1910). Thanks.

Bertie is one of my absolute favs (yes three)... and iv never heard any. however they certainly may exist. ill check it out.

His mother was certainly recorded. iv heard that.
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  #92  
Old 11-17-2007, 07:06 AM
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While we are on a roll with this particular thread, some of the interesting lines of discussion could be continued in these:

King Edward VII & Queen Alexandra
Queen Mary
Prince John (1905-1919)
The Queen as Mother and Grandmother
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  #93  
Old 11-17-2007, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
I believe the Queen Mother did know about her two cousins. She was very friendly with her brother John's other children and it is highly unlikely that a new baby could be born into that family with others not being aware of it as they were very close. The two girls were missing a vital nerve in their brains which was a genetic defect inherited from their mother's family. John and Fenella's other children were normal, one of whom, Anne, (mother of Lord Lichfield) married as her second husband a Prince of Denmark. The two girls were kept at home for as long as possible, but when they began to be a danger to themselves and others they were sent to live in a hospital where they could be cared for and kept out of harm's way.
I don't believe anyone's ever claimed that she had no idea that these cousins even existed. I think she believed they had died just as the Bowes-Lyon family said they had.
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  #94  
Old 11-17-2007, 01:27 PM
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Bowes-Lyon cousins

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I don't believe anyone's ever claimed that she had no idea that these cousins even existed. I think she believed they had died just as the Bowes-Lyon family said they had.
I was quoting Polly who wrote "In the instance of the Queen Mother's cousins (I think that they were), Her Majesty had no idea that they existed!

They were at home until one was 22 and the other one 15, so certainly the QM knew of them. Whether she was told that they both died is another story. It is possible that that was what she was told, but I really doubt it as the family was very close knit and she may have known and approved. The two girls were too sick to keep in the house any longer, but the family waited as long as they could. That they put out the story that they had died was probably because they felt it was nobody's business what had happened to them.
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  #95  
Old 11-17-2007, 03:24 PM
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I'm curious about the medical conditions and illnesses, even the most minor, everything medical related to Prince Albert Victor. Can we discuss it here, and if so, is there someone who knows about his medical history? Is it a discussion for another thread, i.e. the one I forgot where it is.... something about royal medical histories and information.

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  #96  
Old 11-18-2007, 02:53 AM
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In the general British Forum we have the Haemophilia thread, but since this isn't relevant to Albert Victor we should discuss all aspects of him in his own thread (ie, here).
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  #97  
Old 11-18-2007, 10:47 AM
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This evening I will post about Eddy's various illnesses and "rumored" illnesses. If anyone is interested.

I also have a theory that Eddy suffered from what we know call Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD).
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  #98  
Old 11-19-2007, 11:10 AM
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I had also wondered if Eddy suffered from (ADD). It would explain a lot. He had some good qualities. Wasn't he much loved by his mother and sisters?
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Old 11-19-2007, 11:35 AM
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Indeed... he was adored by his family. As Jo said in another post here, Alexandra his mother maintained his room at Sandringham, where he died, exactly as it was for the whole rest of her life.

He might have had ADD. I think he had something going on which in today's time could have been effectively recognized and treated.
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  #100  
Old 11-19-2007, 03:14 PM
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Queen Alexandra's intelligence

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Originally Posted by Polly View Post
His mother, Princess Alexandra, was profoundly deaf. There has never been any suggestion that she was uneducated, ignorant, or unintelligent. She had been beautifully raised by enlightened and compassionate parents, and it showed!
According to Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone, in her book "For my Grandchildren" she says of Queen Alexandra in reference to the relationship of Edward VII and Alice Keppel: "Aunt Alix was renowned for her beauty, very lovely, with a gracious presence and a disposition which endeared her to the public who worshipped her. But being stone deaf and not mentally very bright, she was not much of a companion for an intelligent man like Uncle Bertie."
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biography, british history, duke of clarence, eddy, influenza, prince albert, prince albert victor, princess may of teck, queen victoria


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