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  #101  
Old 08-29-2011, 07:10 PM
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It's funny really Elizabeth I beheaded her cousin Mary,queen of scots because of the threat of the throne, Mary died and Elizabeth reigned but childless.... Mary's son became king of England so in a way Mary got to be queen of England.
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  #102  
Old 12-27-2011, 07:27 PM
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Mary sent letter begging for her life to Sixtus V
It is now among 100 of the most historically significant items due to go on display in Rome
She wrote the missive from her prison cell at Fotheringay Castle, Northamptonshire
Written in French she asks for forgiveness for her sins but also speaks out against falsehoods


Read more: Mary Queen of Scots sent letter begging for her life to Vatican before execution | Mail Online
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  #103  
Old 12-27-2011, 08:29 PM
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I just don't understand why Elizabeth I loathed Mary,queen of scots so much to have her beheaded. They were COUSINS gosh darn it they were related by BLOOD I am sure rather than beheading your own cousin something could have been worked out
P.S it is also Elizabeth's own fault
Knowing as queen she needed to marry and produce an heir but she didn't do any of that so with no kid then the throne would go to someone else when she died
She killed the proposed next queen of England so that ....but ironically England did go into mary's family wether E I liked it or not from her tomb= mary's son became king of England and Mary was buried next to her.
Elizabeth lived all her life under the stain of illegitimacy, aware of factions eager to assassinate her and claimants with strong rights to the throne - not just Mary Stuart but her own Tudor cousins, Katherine and Mary Grey who were the granddaughters of Mary Tudor, Henry VIII's younger sister. The Pope and Catholic countries wanted her dead since they considered her a heretic and a bastard with no right to the throne, and actively encouraged conspiracies to that end. She never had a peaceful day during her reign and since she ascended the throne, she constantly had to hang onto it with her strength of will, diplomacy and political acumen while outwitting various assassination attempts and plots to overthrow her. She never wanted to marry, not just for her own personal reasons, but also knowing that her husband would be declared king and usurp her power, situations she could never abide. Mary represented a tangible threat to Elizabeth, declaring herself true Queen of England and bearing the royal arms of England on her own coat of arms of France and Scotland all through her life. An obvious affront and challenge to Elizabeth.

I always thought Mary charged headstrong into situations that she never thought carefully through and was misdirected by advisers and conspirators. Elizabeth tried to be conciliatory toward her, but Mary would have none of it since she considered herself the true English queen. While she is a tragic figure, I haven't much sympathy for her since she was involved up to the very end to assassinate Elizabeth i.e. the casket plot while she was imprisoned and led to her conviction and execution. She was the author of her own demise. Elizabeth had no choice but to act as she did as an absolute ruler who defended her throne at all costs, and at a great cost. And James Stuart was a better prospect as Elizabeth's heir since he was a Protestant than Mary who was a Catholic. Mary would have never been accepted as a Catholic ruler of England.
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  #104  
Old 12-28-2011, 03:11 AM
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And, I believe, would have had no hesitation or qualms about executing Elizabeth in the unlikely event of her being accepted as Catholic ruler of England.
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  #105  
Old 12-29-2011, 03:24 PM
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I don't know if I can consider Mary a tragic figure when all her tragedies were her own fault. If there was a 16th century book on Why Women Shouldn't Rule, Mary QOS would be on the cover.
I feel one of her problems was that she was raised in France yet was Queen of a country like Scotland; yet her mother was French and she reigned much better than her daughter.
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  #106  
Old 12-29-2011, 03:50 PM
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I just gotta ask..did mary,queen scots really deserve to die the way she did? Or is it because of Elizabeth I? I mean I know Elizabeth was the one to send her to her death and that she didnt wish mary to be Queen of both Scotland and England.
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  #107  
Old 12-29-2011, 03:55 PM
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If Mary tried to kill Elizabeth then that is treason and she had to be punished for it. As for the painful way she died, that was due to a botched execution by a bad executioner; I read that the reason the executioner wasnt more experienced was because Elizabeth wasn't involved in the selection because she didn't know it was happening. But I don't know if that is a fact or not.
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  #108  
Old 12-29-2011, 03:57 PM
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Well, yes and no.

No, she didn't deserve to die the way she did but the method of her death was very common at that time. I mean, I can't think of any way to die other than by natural death (i.e. sleep) as a nice way to die to be honest.

Yes, for her crime of treason Mary did deserve to die. She was a legtimate threat to Elizabeth by virtue of her birth. She was not content to be just Queen of Scotland. From what I read (via Antonia Fraser) is that she considered Scotland to be the runner up prize. The throne of England for Mary was the Crown Jewel (pardon the pun). So she was constantly scheming and working to get the throne that she believed was rightly hers.

She definitely did bring a lot upon herself. She was definitely her own worst enemy. I think a lot of that had to do with her personality more than the way she was raised.
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  #109  
Old 12-29-2011, 04:06 PM
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She didn't exactly bring joy and happiness during her brief reign as Queen of Scots. A shrewd politician and diplomat she was not.
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  #110  
Old 12-29-2011, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
I don't know if I can consider Mary a tragic figure when all her tragedies were her own fault. If there was a 16th century book on Why Women Shouldn't Rule, Mary QOS would be on the cover.
I feel one of her problems was that she was raised in France yet was Queen of a country like Scotland; yet her mother was French and she reigned much better than her daughter.
Mary grew up around many strong women especially at the French Court.Marie de Guise & her mother Antoinette de Bourbon were both very well educated & shrewd ladies.I often think had Marie de Guise lived longer perhaps her daughters throne would have been more secure.

Her mother in law was Catherine de Médicis who was major force during the second half of the 16th century. Another royal power player was Jeanne d'Albret,Queen of Navarre spent much of her time at the French Court.
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  #111  
Old 12-29-2011, 04:30 PM
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She didn't exactly bring joy and happiness during her brief reign as Queen of Scots. A shrewd politician and diplomat she was not.

I think that had something to do with her lack of familiarity with the Scottish clans, government, the role of the Scottish monarch etc. But yes, she was not a shrewd politican and diplomat. Its a shame that she didn't have good advisors.
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  #112  
Old 12-29-2011, 06:17 PM
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Mary grew up around many strong women especially at the French Court.Marie de Guise & her mother Antoinette de Bourbon were both very well educated & shrewd ladies.I often think had Marie de Guise lived longer perhaps her daughters throne would have been more secure.

Her mother in law was Catherine de Médicis who was major force during the second half of the 16th century. Another royal power player was Jeanne d'Albret,Queen of Navarre spent much of her time at the French Court.
Yet only one of these women governed Scotland successfully. The problem is not France itself, but Mary QOS growing up there and having no understanding of her own country and how it operated.
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  #113  
Old 12-29-2011, 06:39 PM
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I think part of the problem is all the adulation poured over Mary from birth. She was seemingly adored by everyone, and she grew to expect it and crave admiration and attention from everyone.

She was never forced to scheme and maneuver to gain her position, as Elizabeth was.
But they had different personalities: Mary made it clear that she hated going back to Scotland and considered it rough and uncouth after her years in cultured sophisticated France. Her Scots subjects sensed and resented this.

(I read once that if Elizabeth had ruled the Scots, she would have shown them in every way how proud she was of them).
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  #114  
Old 12-30-2011, 05:51 AM
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I think part of the problem is all the adulation poured over Mary from birth. She was seemingly adored by everyone, and she grew to expect it and crave admiration and attention from everyone.

She was never forced to scheme and maneuver to gain her position, as Elizabeth was.
But they had different personalities: Mary made it clear that she hated going back to Scotland and considered it rough and uncouth after her years in cultured sophisticated France. Her Scots subjects sensed and resented this.

(I read once that if Elizabeth had ruled the Scots, she would have shown them in every way how proud she was of them).
Imagine if James V married Catherine de Médicis instead of Marie de Guise,the unruly Scottish nobles I believe would have met their match with Catherine as their Regent
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:43 PM
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Imagine if James V married Catherine de Médicis instead of Marie de Guise,the unruly Scottish nobles I believe would have met their match with Catherine as their Regent
Perhaps, but perhaps not.
After all, Catherine couldn't keep her Valois dynasty in power for very long; her sons died and left the way for Henri IV.
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  #116  
Old 12-31-2011, 10:17 AM
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Yet only one of these women governed Scotland successfully. The problem is not France itself, but Mary QOS growing up there and having no understanding of her own country and how it operated.
She was indeed ill trained, despite the fact she was Queen 6 days after her birth, she was engaged to the Dauphin (later Francis II) in a dynastic match that was suppose to unite the crowns of Scotland and France and thus was educated to be a Queen Consort.
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  #117  
Old 09-14-2012, 08:10 AM
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Perhaps, but perhaps not.
After all, Catherine couldn't keep her Valois dynasty in power for very long; her sons died and left the way for Henri IV.
Catherine is largely credited with preserving the throne for her sons,it turned out that none of them had a son to succeed which wasn't any fault of Catherine and her tenacious zeal for the Valois dynasty.
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  #118  
Old 10-24-2012, 02:35 PM
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Elizabeth lived all her life under the stain of illegitimacy, aware of factions eager to assassinate her and claimants with strong rights to the throne - not just Mary Stuart but her own Tudor cousins, Katherine and Mary Grey who were the granddaughters of Mary Tudor, Henry VIII's younger sister. The Pope and Catholic countries wanted her dead since they considered her a heretic and a bastard with no right to the throne, and actively encouraged conspiracies to that end. She never had a peaceful day during her reign and since she ascended the throne, she constantly had to hang onto it with her strength of will, diplomacy and political acumen while outwitting various assassination attempts and plots to overthrow her.
So if it was 'poor' Elizabeth didn't find any peace being queen, why not abdicate?


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After all, Catherine couldn't keep her Valois dynasty in power for very long; her sons died and left the way for Henri IV.
But that was because her sons died and didn't have issue. Catherine kept the throne for her sons all she could. By the time Henri IV became king, Catherine was dead. Catherine did what she could.
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  #119  
Old 11-22-2012, 09:18 AM
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November 22nd,1515 marks the anniversary of the birth of Mary Queen of Scots French mother,Marie de Guise/Mary of Guise/Lorraine.



Mary of Guise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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  #120  
Old 11-22-2012, 10:09 AM
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Concerning the speculation about whether Mary Queen of Scots had porphyria, there is a link in another thread to a great article by Drs. Hunter and McAlpine on this. A detailed description of Mary's symptoms is given. The best proof of her porphyria may still be that her son James I/VI was definitely diagnosed with it by his doctors and by his own testimony of his symptoms. James passed urine (when in porphyria attack) which he described as the color of alicante wine (it was not colored this way from blood. Not all persons with porphyria have this coloration of their urine, but it is one of the signs of probable porphyria.)
The Valois family is also thought to have suffered from Porphyria. Inbreeding of the various families only made this condition more likely to be passed on, through Stuarts and Tudors and later through Hanovers, all related to one another. Owen Tudor's wife was Katherine of Valois, widow of Henry V.
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