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  #61  
Old 04-15-2011, 08:26 PM
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I just don't understand why Elizabeth I loathed Mary,queen of scots so much to have her beheaded. They were COUSINS gosh darn it they were related by BLOOD I am sure rather than beheading your own cousin something could have been worked out
P.S it is also Elizabeth's own fault
Knowing as queen she needed to marry and produce an heir but she didn't do any of that so with no kid then the throne would go to someone else when she died
She killed the proposed next queen of England so that ....but ironically England did go into mary's family wether E I liked it or not from her tomb= mary's son became king of England and Mary was buried next to her.
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  #62  
Old 04-15-2011, 08:37 PM
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I just don't understand why Elizabeth I loathed Mary,queen of scots so much to have her beheaded. They were COUSINS gosh darn it they were related by BLOOD I am sure rather than beheading your own cousin something could have been worked out
Easy for us to say, but Elizabeth lived a life of constant danger! Her hold on the throne was precarious; there were all too many people who wanted her got rid of so Mary could be queen instead. But Elizabeth was a survivor; she did what she had to do, kept her throne, and kept her head, while Mary lost both.
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:46 PM
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It was self perservation at its finest. Mary IMO would have done the same to Elizabeth. Heck she plotted to do so. She could have been happy being the Queen of Scotland but that was not good enough for her.

Of course it doesn't help that everyone in your life is telling you that you are the rightful Queen of England. If Henry's will dictated that Elizabeth was to get it after Mary I, I really don't understand why she persisted in her claim.
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:45 PM
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It was a tragedy that Mary Queen of Scots was brought up as a french princess and not a Scottish Queen. She was totally ill-prepared when she returned to Scotland to deal with the blood thirsty, ambitious Scottish lords. On top of that, she was a Catholic Queen in her own Protestant country. The seeds had been planted in her mind that she was the rightful Queen of England when she was very young, and she never lost focus of it, which lead to her end.
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Old 04-16-2011, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Grandduchess24 View Post
I just don't understand why Elizabeth I loathed Mary,queen of scots so much to have her beheaded. They were COUSINS gosh darn it they were related by BLOOD I am sure rather than beheading your own cousin something could have been worked out
P.S it is also Elizabeth's own fault
Knowing as queen she needed to marry and produce an heir but she didn't do any of that so with no kid then the throne would go to someone else when she died
She killed the proposed next queen of England so that ....but ironically England did go into mary's family wether E I liked it or not from her tomb= mary's son became king of England and Mary was buried next to her.
And even though they were related, they did not really know each other. Mary's claim to the throne is what sealed her fate, not to mention fleeing Scotland and being captured in England. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
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Old 04-16-2011, 11:55 AM
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I've read quite a number of books about the relationship between Mary and Elizabeth. However, I find it odd that there is virtually no mention of what Elizabeth's sister, Queen Mary, thought of Mary Queen of Scots? After all, they were both Catholics? Sure, there was about a 26 year difference between the two Marys. In books, there is never any opinion expressed of the elder Queen Mary regarding the Scottish Queen. I find that a bit fascinating. Thoughts?
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Old 04-16-2011, 12:16 PM
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Honestly, I don't think Mary I thought much of her because she didn't have to deal with her.

Think of it this way...Mary becomes Queen of England in 1553 and Mary Queen of Scots is only 11....Mary of England dies in 1558 and Scottish Mary is now 16, married to the Dauphin of France and Queen of France and about to reign in France for two years. In 1560, he is dead and in 1561 she is on her way back to Scotland.

Mary I of England probably had a minimal interest in regards to the infighting that was going on in Scotland but that was about it.
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Old 04-16-2011, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Grandduchess24
I just don't understand why Elizabeth I loathed Mary,queen of scots so much to have her beheaded. They were COUSINS gosh darn it they were related by BLOOD I am sure rather than beheading your own cousin something could have been worked out.
No- in those days to keep your throne, it was kill of be killed. Elizabeth did not want to kill Mary Queen of Scots but did so reluctantly because there was proof Mary was plotting to try and take the English throne- she had to protect her reign.....in those days that's how it was done....when claimants believed it was their rightful due to be King/Queen ( and remember royalty believed they were annointed by God) you could not 'talk' them out of it.
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Old 04-16-2011, 01:07 PM
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I've read quite a number of books about the relationship between Mary and Elizabeth. However, I find it odd that there is virtually no mention of what Elizabeth's sister, Queen Mary, thought of Mary Queen of Scots? After all, they were both Catholics? Sure, there was about a 26 year difference between the two Marys. In books, there is never any opinion expressed of the elder Queen Mary regarding the Scottish Queen. I find that a bit fascinating. Thoughts?
Mary Queen of Scots was in France during the reign of Mary I of England,it was her mother The pro French Marie de Guise who would have had dealings with her English neighbour.

Scotland went to war with England at the end of Mary I's reign,France & Scotland had a military alliance known as 'The Auld Alliance'.The French retook Calais but the Scottish never invaded England as planned.
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Old 04-29-2011, 03:46 PM
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Mary Queen of Scots was a very beautiful, tragic woman who was born to James V and Marie of Guise, she grew up as an only child and fatherless as he father died around the time of her birth, so she became queen. She grew up in France because she was betrothed to the Dauphin, Francis, son of Catharine de Medici and Henri III. When they were teenagers, she and the Dauphin married, but he was sickly and died as a teenager not long after.

So as a childless teenage widow she went home to Scotland to rule it. She was more French than Scottish in some ways because she had been brought up in France, not in fairly rough Scotland. So in some ways she never fitted in- her religion was Roman Catholicism, and that of many of the Scottish, Calvinism. She thus was some ways not suited to be Queen there. She had to find someone suitable to marry as she had to have heirs so she married Henry, Lord Darnely who was a cousin, descendent of Henry VII and of his daughter Margaret Tudor by her second marriage. She was infatutated with Henry, Lord Darnely but he was a foolish immature youth with little to recomend him beyond his royal blood and distant claim to the sucession to the English throne. Their marriage quickly went downhill once the infatuation wore off although they soon had a healthy son together, the future James VI of England. During her pregnancy with their son, he killed Mary's secretary an Italian Catholic named Rizzio because he thought Mary and this man were having an affair, although they were not. Henry and Mary's marriage became unbearable, but it ended when Henry died in mysterious circumstances among whispers he was murdered by Mary or men who were working for Mary. It was never proven, but whispers about Mary being a murderess soon sprung up to ruin her reputation.

She tried to rule Scotland after Darnley's death, but she was very unpopular and had a bad reputation, not helped by her marriage to the Earl of Bothwell, a Scottish noble who rumor had it had a hand in the murder of Darnley. So she looked bad married to a man who might have killed her husband or had a hand in it, it looked like she was to blame. But Bothwell had a lot of military power. She was soon expecting twins with Bothwell, but her marriage to him was very unpopular with Scotland. She eventually miscarried the twins and lost her throne in Scotland because even though Bothwell had military power, he and she both were very unpopular and she knew she was no longer welcome in Scotland, so after losing battles against forces in Scotland and being a prisoner for awhile in Scotland, she fled to England.

She always maintained as mentioned above she had a claim to the English throne since to her, as a Roman Catholic, the marriage of Elizabeth's parents had not been legitimate. She was a prisoner her whole time in England though because Elizabeth I felt she was a political threat, which she was. She plotted from her imprisonment in various plots to put herself on the throne and take Elizabeth off. She had been a famous beauty in her day but she grew older and her beauty faded in captivity, although early on in her captivity, part of one plot to put on her on the throne called for her to marry the Duke of Norfolk, a leading peer of England. Elizabeth was relunctant to exceute her but after she caught Mary in a plot directly she decided she had to execute her. So she was beheaded in 1587, a year before the Spanish Armada reached England. Elizabeth didn't want to, but she was compelled to have Mary put to death as Mary couldn't stop plottong in captivity her escape and Elizabeth's death. James, then a young man ruling Scotland ( in his childhood a regency had ruled for him) had never known his mother and thus didn't step in and also he wanted to have the English sucession, so that was another reason he did nothing. All in all, Mary's was a sad life. A good bio of her is the one by Antonia Fraser.
Mary Queen of Scots was a political idiot, she upset the Queen of France, tried to claim the throne of England and got caught in the most stupid attempts to overthrough Elizabeth ever. Her marrying the man who murdered (probably with her permission) her second husband was a bad political move and got her kicked off the throne everything from then on was downhill.
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Old 04-29-2011, 04:26 PM
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No- in those days to keep your throne, it was kill of be killed. Elizabeth did not want to kill Mary Queen of Scots but did so reluctantly because there was proof Mary was plotting to try and take the English throne- she had to protect her reign.....in those days that's how it was done....when claimants believed it was their rightful due to be King/Queen ( and remember royalty believed they were annointed by God) you could not 'talk' them out of it.
Don't forget in 1570 Pope Pius V issued a papel bull telling English catholics they where duty bound to kill the Queen, and in 1580 Gregory XIII tried to get her assasinated as well. Falling for the Babington plot was something that would not have happened if she had listened to her advisors.
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Old 05-19-2011, 04:48 PM
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I have a question semi-regarding Mary, and this seemed as good a place as any to ask.

While browsing through the newest MQS books at Amazon, I came across one I had not heard of before. It's apparently only available as a Kindle e-book. Does anyone know anything about it?

Amazon.com: Mary Queen of Scots and the Magician-King eBook: Lisa Lideks, Mara Lideks: Books
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  #73  
Old 05-19-2011, 06:09 PM
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My dear White Rose,

I tried to find a review of this book on line but could not! Very strange
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:09 PM
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I've never heard of it.
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  #75  
Old 05-19-2011, 07:52 PM
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Mary Queen of Scots was a political idiot, she upset the Queen of France, tried to claim the throne of England and got caught in the most stupid attempts to overthrough Elizabeth ever. Her marrying the man who murdered (probably with her permission) her second husband was a bad political move and got her kicked off the throne everything from then on was downhill.
As fascinated (and even sympathetic to her plight)as I am by the Queen of Scots, I cannot disagree with a single word you typed.

The decision to marry Bothwell seems like an act of madness in retrospect, but I have recently read a book which suggests that after her "rape" by the Earl she became pregnant and was therefore forced to marry him to save what little of her honor that was left.

There was not the tolerance for unwed mothers in 16th century Europe that there is today...and still less for an unwed mother who was a reigning Queen!
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  #76  
Old 07-07-2011, 06:15 PM
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I know it's kinda off subject but,there is no thread for her son,James VI so,I read in his daughters wiki that she was named after Elizabeth I.Why would he do that?Why would you name your daughter after the women who killed your mother?
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  #77  
Old 07-07-2011, 10:12 PM
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I know it's kinda off subject but,there is no thread for her son,James VI so,I read in his daughters wiki that she was named after Elizabeth I.Why would he do that?Why would you name your daughter after the women who killed your mother?
For one thing, James never even knew his mother. The last time she saw him he was less than a year old, and he was surely raised with some bias against her because of the previous upheaval she caused in Scotland.. not to mention, his mother was also implicated in the murder of his father.

By the time James' daughter Elizabeth was born, Mary had been dead for almost 10 years, and James was hoping to be named Queen Elizabeth's heir. What better way to keep in her good graces than to name your eldest daughter after her?

I would venture to say that James had no tender feelings at all for the woman who gave birth to him.. she could not really be called his mother, after all, as she wasn't around to be one.
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  #78  
Old 07-07-2011, 11:47 PM
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My dear HM Queen Catherine,

I agree with all your observations. James certainly never bonded with his mother because she was absent from his life from the time he turned 1. Undoubtedly, the nobles who raised him did not instill any love for his mother in their young ward.

But don't forget that after he became King, he built an elaborate tomb and moved his mother's remains to Westminster Abbey. So I think in the end he demonstrated some fidelity and affection for her. Perhaps being older also made him more understanding.
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Old 07-08-2011, 12:25 AM
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Well can you blame James or the nobles...to Mary...everything (her men, France and the throne of England) was a higher priority than her son or Scotland.

Yes, women of the day as a result of their social circle were not mothers like we know today. If they had had a normal relationship she might have seen him a couple of times a day for brief periods of time. As it was, she was so busy scheming that she schemed her way right of his life.

It was reported that in her day Mary was quite the beauty too bad she didn't have common sense. When you think about it a lot of the issues that she had in her life she brought them upon herself. Talking about picking the wrong men in life to love and follow!
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Old 07-08-2011, 07:53 AM
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My dear HM Queen Catherine,

I agree with all your observations. James certainly never bonded with his mother because she was absent from his life from the time he turned 1. Undoubtedly, the nobles who raised him did not instill any love for his mother in their young ward.

But don't forget that after he became King, he built an elaborate tomb and moved his mother's remains to Westminster Abbey. So I think in the end he demonstrated some fidelity and affection for her. Perhaps being older also made him more understanding.
Personally, I don't think Mary's elaborate tomb was erected to show James' fidelity and affection, but rather to glorify the Stuart name and the new dynasty on England's throne.
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