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  #81  
Old 01-05-2017, 12:56 PM
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The Tudor period was always my favorite in my history days, before I went practical into nursing. It always irritated me, the name Bloody Mary and the inaccuracy at best.

Henry viii executed tens of thousands of people in 36 years. During the reign of Edward over the thousand were executed, though as his regents ruled, he can't really be blamed. In comparison Mary's less than 400 is minimal.

The issue stems from the fact she was a Catholic queen of a Protestant country. During the very popular reign of her Protestant sister, the slandering of Mary started and lives today. What is forgotten is like her mother who was very popular, Mary was popular. Unfortunately she was popular with Catholics abd that was the minority. My English and Scottish Rd,stoves are Catholic, and I can imagine my Nana's reaction when she was alive if you used the term.pur family survived the Catholic persecutions, I know the family home had a priest hole.

Good read

The Elizabeth Files » The Myth of Bloody Mary
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  #82  
Old 01-05-2017, 01:01 PM
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Presumably because Protestant England won.
And we can't have the foremost Protestant monarch of England, who on top of that elevated England from a secondary to a more prominent, and wealthier power labeled "bloody". No, no! Better to give such a label to QEI's predecessor.

On top of that there would be a considerable political wish for QEI not only to detract from Queen Mary but also to emphasize her own benign rule. And those around her would have a very big interest in placing QEI on a pedestal.
The Tudors were pretty good at that, just look at Shakespeare's Richard III.

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  #83  
Old 01-05-2017, 01:38 PM
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The history was/is/will be written by victors. Queen Mary I was not one of them. Queen Elizabeth I, who facilitated regicide, will have a better reputation.
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  #84  
Old 01-05-2017, 01:43 PM
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I could not agree more. I agree that the "Bloody Mary" moniker is unfair, especially when compared to the record of Mary's august father Henry VIII(the details of his treatment of the Carthusian monks during the Dissolution of the Monasteries and his suppression of the Pilgrimage of Grace makes my blood run cold).

History is written by the victors.
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  #85  
Old 01-06-2017, 08:59 AM
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Elizabeth I does not have a good reputation in Ireland where hundreds of thousands died because of her and her governments policies here during the Tudor re-conquest of Ireland.

The reign of Mary I was largely peaceful here but it was the opposite for her half sister Elizabeth.Most of the Marian Irish RC bishops met with very gruesome deaths unlike their English counterparts who languished under house arrest.The Irish wars almost bankrupted Elizabeth and saw troops from France,Spain and the Papal States landing in Ireland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Rebellions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Desmond_Rebellion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Y..._War_(Ireland)


Dermot O'Hurley,Archbishop of Cashel was one if the numerous Irish Catholic Martyrs and endured a horrible tortures before his execution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermot...rley#Martyrdom
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  #86  
Old 01-06-2017, 12:38 PM
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Ireland and the Northern Ireland viewed/views holders of the British Crown with caution/distrust/etc because of the planned and well-executed genocide. Represented by various Prime Ministers, the British Crown perpetrated it for many centuries. Queen Elizabeth I was one of the Crown Holders. Even Oliver Cromwell continued ghastly royal policy against Ireland.
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  #87  
Old 01-06-2017, 12:57 PM
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The Bishop of Mayo ,Patrick O'Hely

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_O%27Hely



Jesuit Priest Edmund O'Donnell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_O%27Donnell

Margaret Ball,widow of the Lord Mayor of Dublin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Ball



The Wexford Martyrs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wexford_Martyrs
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  #88  
Old 01-06-2017, 05:01 PM
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My son recently returned from living in Belfast for 5 months. He said the people there do not trust the English, however so much funding comes from England that the country would go bankrupt if the whole country was reunited and the money from England would stop.
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  #89  
Old 03-11-2018, 04:21 PM
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Queen Mary I's marriage to Philip of Spain dragged England into a war against France. Would it have been possible for Mary to have had England not side with Spain in any war? If this had been possible, what would the consequences have been?
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  #90  
Old 03-11-2018, 07:10 PM
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Mary was deeply reliant on Spain it was her mothers country, she was supposed to marry the Emperor as a child and she felt they protected her when she was persecuted by her father. Plus they were helping her re-establish Catholicism. I highly doubt Mary would have gone against Philip who she desperately wanted to love her or her Spanish advisors.

As for Bloody Mary I feel it is a justified nickname. It is based not just on the amount she killed but the way she did it, in a short amount of time, and the context behind it; influenced by the Spanish inquisition and in an increasingly Protestant country.
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  #91  
Old 04-14-2018, 06:12 PM
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When her brother reigned as King Edward VI, the Catholic Princess Mary refused to have anything to do with Protestant church services. The Royal Council tried to bully her, but she would not give in.
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  #92  
Old 04-14-2018, 06:53 PM
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Yes, and although Edward VI was given a Protestant funeral his Catholic sister and successor Mary wasn't present. Instead she attended a private Catholic mass for his soul.

https://thefreelancehistorywriter.co...ing-edward-vi/
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  #93  
Old 04-14-2018, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Mary was deeply reliant on Spain it was her mothers country, she was supposed to marry the Emperor as a child and she felt they protected her when she was persecuted by her father. Plus they were helping her re-establish Catholicism. I highly doubt Mary would have gone against Philip who she desperately wanted to love her or her Spanish advisors.

As for Bloody Mary I feel it is a justified nickname. It is based not just on the amount she killed but the way she did it, in a short amount of time, and the context behind it; influenced by the Spanish inquisition and in an increasingly Protestant country.
In some ways Mary was more Spanish than English. While England became Protestant she remained Roman Catholic. She also depended on her Spanish relatives for protection against her English family and the English government. You could even say she was almost a stranger in her own country.

She was traumatized by her parent's divorce, her father's ill-treatment of her mother, and the presence of Anne Boleyn. She also suffered emotional abuse at her father's hands because she remained loyal to her mother and the Roman Catholic church. As CyrilVladisla pointed out she was also bullied by her brother Edward VI's ministers.

Once she became Queen she made a very foolish - but understandable - attempt to turn back the hands of time and return England to the happier days of her childhood, the way things were before her father rejected her mother and broke with the Roman Catholic church. In doing so she ran roughshod over the wishes of her Protestant subjects. By marrying Philip of Spain she also chose loyalty to her Spanish family over the advice of her English advisers who opposed the marriage. Permanently scarred by her unhappy life, she never really understood her subjects.

Her cousin Mary Queen of Scots had a much more realistic approach. Although she was Roman Catholic herself, once she returned to Scotland from France she promised to respect the Protestant faith of her Scottish subjects.
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  #94  
Old 05-24-2018, 11:22 PM
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I too am quoting an old post of one my old posts quoted! And AI agree.

Mary is a great historical figure to study. Talk about having the rug ripped from beneath you without a moment's notice.

She had so much baggage at a such a young age that her faparents had put on her. The world, really.
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Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
I read that Mary I was named after Mary Tudor because she was Henry VIII's favourite sister, but I would need to double check that.



I know I'm quoting an old post here (mea culpa), but the bolded is how I feel about Mary I as well. She and the Tudors have also always fascinated me, and I first became interested in the BRF when I was around eight or nine because I had been reading about these historical periods in question. I've read that one of the good things Mary I would do during her reign was to disguise herself as a peasant woman, and knock on the doors of the houses of the poor, and if she saw anything that she thought wasn't right or that could be improved, she would go about doing so, but that's another fact I would need to double check.
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  #95  
Old 05-25-2018, 11:08 AM
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I wouldn't be surprised at Mary being named after her aunt Mary, but there's also a chance of course that her deeply religious parents gave her the name of the mother of Christ as well.
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  #96  
Old 07-19-2018, 03:25 PM
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One of Mary's godmothers was her great aunt,Catherine of York,Countess of Devon who was the grandmother of Edward Courtenay, 1st Earl of Devon
and later versed as a possible match for Mary I.

Edward Courtenay, 1st Earl of Devon was also a great grandson of King Edward IV.
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  #97  
Old 07-22-2018, 09:57 PM
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Why was Edward Courtenay unable to inherit his father Henry Courtenay's titles and estates?
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  #98  
Old 07-22-2018, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Why was Edward Courtenay unable to inherit his father Henry Courtenay's titles and estates?
As is practice, when you are convicted of treason, his lands and title were seized. Henry was of course beheaded for his part in the Exeter plot. His wife and son were arrested though they were later released. Edward spent 15 years in the tower, until Mary came to the throne, and his mother secured his release. Mary later re-created the Courteney's original title, Earl of Devon, for Henry.

It was pretty common practice. If the heir was loyal, either the title, or one of its subsidiary titles would be 're-created' for them.

Its the difference between forefeited and suspended. A suspended title can be claimed. They can simply be restored, and not re-created.
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  #99  
Old 07-23-2018, 08:30 AM
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Queen Mary was very fond of her cousin,the queen created him Earl of Devon in September 1553 and also a Knight of the Bath ,he played a prominent role too in her coronation.

However she did not permit him succeed to the Marquessate of Exeter.
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:12 PM
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Why did Queen Mary I not allow Edward Courtenay to succeed to the Marquessate of Exeter?
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