Mary I (1516-1558)

[CyrilVladisla]

When her brother reigned as King Edward VI, the Catholic Princess Mary refused to have anything to do with Protestant church services. The Royal Council tried to bully her, but she would not give in.

 

[Gawin]

Yes, and although Edward VI was given a Protestant funeral his Catholic sister and successor Mary wasn't present. Instead she attended a private Catholic mass for his soul.

https://thefreelancehistorywriter.com/2018/01/05/the-funeral-of-king-edward-vi/

 

[Gawin]

Mary was deeply reliant on Spain it was her mothers country, she was supposed to marry the Emperor as a child and she felt they protected her when she was persecuted by her father. Plus they were helping her re-establish Catholicism. I highly doubt Mary would have gone against Philip who she desperately wanted to love her or her Spanish advisors.

As for Bloody Mary I feel it is a justified nickname. It is based not just on the amount she killed but the way she did it, in a short amount of time, and the context behind it; influenced by the Spanish inquisition and in an increasingly Protestant country.

In some ways Mary was more Spanish than English. While England became Protestant she remained Roman Catholic. She also depended on her Spanish relatives for protection against her English family and the English government. You could even say she was almost a stranger in her own country.

She was traumatized by her parent's divorce, her father's ill-treatment of her mother, and the presence of Anne Boleyn. She also suffered emotional abuse at her father's hands because she remained loyal to her mother and the Roman Catholic church. As CyrilVladisla pointed out she was also bullied by her brother Edward VI's ministers.

Once she became Queen she made a very foolish - but understandable - attempt to turn back the hands of time and return England to the happier days of her childhood, the way things were before her father rejected her mother and broke with the Roman Catholic church. In doing so she ran roughshod over the wishes of her Protestant subjects. By marrying Philip of Spain she also chose loyalty to her Spanish family over the advice of her English advisers who opposed the marriage. Permanently scarred by her unhappy life, she never really understood her subjects.

Her cousin Mary Queen of Scots had a much more realistic approach. Although she was Roman Catholic herself, once she returned to Scotland from France she promised to respect the Protestant faith of her Scottish subjects.

 

[Vita]

I too am quoting an old post of one my old posts quoted! And AI agree.

Mary is a great historical figure to study. Talk about having the rug ripped from beneath you without a moment's notice.

She had so much baggage at a such a young age that her faparents had put on her. The world, really.

I read that Mary I was named after Mary Tudor because she was Henry VIII's favourite sister, but I would need to double check that.



I know I'm quoting an old post here (mea culpa), but the bolded is how I feel about Mary I as well. She and the Tudors have also always fascinated me, and I first became interested in the BRF when I was around eight or nine because I had been reading about these historical periods in question. I've read that one of the good things Mary I would do during her reign was to disguise herself as a peasant woman, and knock on the doors of the houses of the poor, and if she saw anything that she thought wasn't right or that could be improved, she would go about doing so, but that's another fact I would need to double check.

 

[Curryong]

I wouldn't be surprised at Mary being named after her aunt Mary, but there's also a chance of course that her deeply religious parents gave her the name of the mother of Christ as well.

 

[An Ard Ri]

One of Mary's godmothers was her great aunt,Catherine of York,Countess of Devon who was the grandmother of Edward Courtenay, 1st Earl of Devon
and later versed as a possible match for Mary I.

Edward Courtenay, 1st Earl of Devon was also a great grandson of King Edward IV.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Why was Edward Courtenay unable to inherit his father Henry Courtenay's titles and estates?

 

[Countessmeout]

Why was Edward Courtenay unable to inherit his father Henry Courtenay's titles and estates?

As is practice, when you are convicted of treason, his lands and title were seized. Henry was of course beheaded for his part in the Exeter plot. His wife and son were arrested though they were later released. Edward spent 15 years in the tower, until Mary came to the throne, and his mother secured his release. Mary later re-created the Courteney's original title, Earl of Devon, for Henry.

It was pretty common practice. If the heir was loyal, either the title, or one of its subsidiary titles would be 're-created' for them.

Its the difference between forefeited and suspended. A suspended title can be claimed. They can simply be restored, and not re-created.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Queen Mary was very fond of her cousin,the queen created him Earl of Devon in September 1553 and also a Knight of the Bath ,he played a prominent role too in her coronation.

However she did not permit him succeed to the Marquessate of Exeter.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Why did Queen Mary I not allow Edward Courtenay to succeed to the Marquessate of Exeter?

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I never thought of Mary being too Spanish and not understanding her English subjects. I always see her as wanting to restore a world where she had been happy that had long disappeared, instead of creating new experiences that could fulfill her.
Her dad did screw her over by essentially making her a spinster, which is sad. If Henry had tried her could have married her to some minor French noble and had 5 grandsons by the time he died.

 

[Gawin]

I never thought of Mary being too Spanish and not understanding her English subjects. I always see her as wanting to restore a world where she had been happy that had long disappeared, instead of creating new experiences that could fulfill her.
Her dad did screw her over by essentially making her a spinster, which is sad. If Henry had tried her could have married her to some minor French noble and had 5 grandsons by the time he died.

But she didn't understand that the English weren't interested in the world she wanted to restore. They had moved on. They didn't want Protestants persecuted and they didn't want her married to a Spaniard. Mary's half-sister Elizabeth understood this very well. For example, when she became Queen she did nothing to undo her father's work and restore her mother's name. Rather than try to undo the past and open old wounds she let sleeping dogs lie.

And I think the emotional abuse Henry heaped on Mary was far worse than keeping her a spinster. She feared for her safety and sometimes her life which is why she clung to her Spanish relatives who offered her their protection.

 

[Lucy63]

I think Mary had some "regular" people burned for their beliefs, not just nobles leading plots, etc...at least this is true in some versions I have read, among many books on this period.

Either way...the very idea of being burned alive over variations of belief is so ludicrous to my (atheist) mind, especially seeing how relatively casual England seems to be about religion in present times. Amazing what 500 years will do lol.

 

[Gawin]

Even Mary Queen of Scots, fool that she often was, had the sense to respect her Protestant subjects's right to worship as they wished. But maybe she learned from her cousin's mistake.

 

[Lucy63]

Even Mary Queen of Scots, fool that she often was, had the sense to respect her Protestant subjects's right to worship as they wished. But maybe she learned from her cousin's mistake.

I don’t think she learned much else though...following her heart did her little good, as with Mary 1.

 

[Denville]

Even Mary Queen of Scots, fool that she often was, had the sense to respect her Protestant subjects's right to worship as they wished. But maybe she learned from her cousin's mistake.

It would have been very difficult to impose Catholicism on Scotland by the time Mary came there, a fanatical Protestantism had become entrenched among a large part of the population.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Even Mary Queen of Scots, fool that she often was, had the sense to respect her Protestant subjects's right to worship as they wished. But maybe she learned from her cousin's mistake.

Mary Queen of Scots wasn't married to a fanatical Catholic King like her cousin Queen Mary Tudor who perused her husbands ruthless policies in England to stamp out Protestantism.

 

[Denville]

I don't think It is all on Philip of Spain.. Mary herself was a fanatical Catholic, somewhat embittered by the way that England had changed and how her mother had been treated..and she wanted to put back the clock, herself.

 

[An Ard Ri]

But yet the brutal persecution only started after she married Philip II,Mary deeply loved him and did anything he asked its also thanks to him England lost Calais .

 

[Lucy63]

The more I read about Mary, the more I think she did more for Protestantism than her father did...not on purpose, of course. What a disaster her short reign was. Between the bad marriage, losing Calais, burning of regular people as “heretics”, terrorizing Elizabeth, and her false pregnancies...good grief.

I think her emotional and mental maturity all came to a screeching halt at 17 when her father started his anti-Catherine regime. As queen, she seemed to be no more aware of what her people needed and wanted than a mixed-up teenager might. Her brain and heart were firmly with Spain in all things.

But, just my opinions, as always...

 

[CyrilVladisla]

On November 26, 1533 a papal dispensation was sought in order that Henry, Duke of Richmond might marry Lady (Princess) Mary. This dispensation was requested so that Richmond could marry his half-sister, Princess Mary, the daughter of Catherine of Aragon. Was this papal dispensation approved of?

 

[Lucy63]

On November 26, 1533 a papal dispensation was sought in order that Henry, Duke of Richmond might marry Lady (Princess) Mary. This dispensation was requested so that Richmond could marry his half-sister, Princess Mary, the daughter of Catherine of Aragon. Was this papal dispensation approved of?

It may even have been the pope’s idea. It was mooted as a way to stop the divorce with K of A and make Fitzroy “more legit”. Not sure who suggested it but the pope would have been on board. Seems dispensations were easy to get. I think Henry had them for his first three wives...well not from the pope for Anne and Jane, but from Cramner...anyway the idea of Richmond and Mary was not taken seriously by Henry.

 

[Gawin]

It wasn't the Pope's idea. It was proposed by Cardinal Wolsey to Cardinal Campeggio, the Papal legate, soon after Campeggio arrived in England in October 1528, sent by the Pope to deal with the "King's Matter."

"They [Wolsey and the English prelates] have thought of marrying the Princess, by dispensation from his Holiness, to the King's natural son, if it can be done. At first I myself had thought of this as a means of establishing the succession, but I do not believe that this design would suffice to satisfy the King's desires."

The Pope's secretary Giovanni Baptista Sanga wrote back:

"With regard to the dispensation for marrying the son to the daughter of the King, if, on the succession being thus established, the King will reject his first thought of the divorce, the Pope will be much more inclined to grant it. I will write more diffusely on the return hither of the cavalier Casale."

But Henry VIII wasn't interested and the matter was dropped.

Sources:

Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 4, 1524-1530.
October 1528, entry 4881
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/letters-papers-hen8/vol4/pp2104-2119

Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 4, 1524-1530.
December 1528, entry 5072
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/letters-papers-hen8/vol4/pp2208-2254

 

[Lucy63]

Anyway...it is a sick idea...worse than their usual dispensations.

 

[Gawin]

On November 26, 1533 a papal dispensation was sought in order that Henry, Duke of Richmond might marry Lady (Princess) Mary. This dispensation was requested so that Richmond could marry his half-sister, Princess Mary, the daughter of Catherine of Aragon. Was this papal dispensation approved of?

A marriage between Richmond and Princess Mary was considered (briefly & not very seriously) in 1528. The 1533 dispensation concerned Richmond's marriage to Lady Mary Howard. It was necessary because Richmond was a great-grandson of Elizabeth Woodville (Queen of England) and Mary Howard was the great-granddaughter of Elizabeth's sister Katherine Woodville (Duchess of Buckingham).

 

[Gawin]

Anyway...it is a sick idea...worse than their usual dispensations.

I agree completely.

 

[Lucy63]

Speaking of dispensations...did Henry have a far flung familial relationship to Catherine Howard? Or was that was too distant?

Just finished a bio on her last night...yikes poor silly girl.)

 

[Gawin]

Yes, Henry VIII was related to all six wives but most distantly to Catherine Howard.

Catherine Howard was a descendant (twice over) from Edward I:

Edward I (1239-1307) > Elizabeth (1282-1316) > William de Bohun 1st Earl of Northampton (c1312-1360) > Lady Elizabeth de Bohun (c1350-1405) > Lady Elizabeth Fitzalan (1366-1425) > Lady Margaret Mowbray (1391-1459) > John Howard 1st Duke of Norfolk (c1425-1485) > Thomas Howard 2nd Duke of Norfolk (1443-1524) > Lord Edmund Howard (c1478-1539) > Catherine Howard (c1523-1542)

Edward I (1239-1307) > Thomas Earl of Norfolk (1300-1338) > Margaret Duchess of Norfolk (c1320-1400) > Elizabeth de Segrave (1338-1368) > Thomas Mowbray 1st Duke of Norfolk (1366-1399) > Lady Margaret Mowbray (1391-1459) > John Howard 1st Duke of Norfolk (c1425-1485) > Thomas Howard 2nd Duke of Norfolk (1443-1524) > Lord Edmund Howard (c1478-1539) > Catherine Howard (c1523-1542)

Henry VIII was an Edward I descendant several times over. Here's one line:

Edward I (1239-1307) > Edward II (1284-1327) > Edward III (1312-1377) > Edmund Duke of York (1341-1407) > Richard Earl of Cambridge (d. 1415) > Richard Duke of York (1411-1460) > Edward IV (1442-1483) > Elizabeth (1465-1503) > Henry VIII (1491-1547)

 

[An Ard Ri]

And the duke was dead a few years later in 1536.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Osep Napea Wasiljevitch was the first Russian ambassador to England. He was received at Queen Mary I's court in May 1555.
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-os...-ambassador-to-england-received-87310943.html