Lady Jane Grey, Queen for 9 days (1537-1554)

[ysbel]

A 16th century portrait has been found in a London home and some experts believe it is the only contemporary portrait of Lady Jane Grey in existence.

Jane, a cousin of Mary I and Elizabeth I, was only 17 when her father-in-law, the Duke of Northumberland, tried to put her on the throne of England to prevent Mary, a Catholic, from assuming power. Nine days later Mary triumpantly entered London to assume the throne and Northumberland, his son, and Jane were put to death.

see BBC video 'Painting found in London home'

For many years, most experts thought that this portrait was of Lady Jane Grey but now most believe it is of Catherine Parr, Henry VIII's last queen.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by ysbel

A 16th century portrait has been found in a London home and some experts believe it is the only contemporary portrait of Lady Jane Grey in existence.

Jane, a cousin of Mary I and Elizabeth I, was only 17 when her father-in-law, the Duke of Northumberland, tried to put her on the throne of England to prevent Mary, a Catholic, from assuming power. Nine days later Mary triumpantly entered London to assume the throne and Northumberland, his son, and Jane were put to death.

see BBC video 'Painting found in London home'

For many years, most experts thought that this portrait was of Lady Jane Grey but now most believe it is of Catherine Parr, Henry VIII's last queen.

Poor little thing!

[Elspeth]

Interesting. As they said, we'll never know for sure, but it's nice to see these pictures. It's funny that we have this idea that we know how people like Catherine Parr and Jane Grey and Shakespeare and Jane Austen looked, but often the images are from one or two sources and they aren't firmly verified.

I don't know if it's the style of hair and headdress or just the way painters worked, but all these Tudor ladies look alike to me.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

Interesting. As they said, we'll never know for sure, but it's nice to see these pictures. It's funny that we have this idea that we know how people like Catherine Parr and Jane Grey and Shakespeare and Jane Austen looked, but often the images are from one or two sources and they aren't firmly verified.

I don't know if it's the style of hair and headdress or just the way painters worked, but all these Tudor ladies look alike to me.

Yes, you're right Elspeth. An interesting historical fact is that Hans Holbein, the famous painter in the court of Henry VII, actually designed a lot of the court dresses and jewels.

So the look that we most associate with the reign of Henry VIII and his wives was actually created by a foreign artist.

I've looked at that first portrait a thousand times and I just have a hard time believing its Catherine Parr. For one, Catherine was 31 years old when she married Henry VIII and the girl in the portrait does not look 31 to me but rather a teenager which corresponds more to Lady Jane Grey's age. When you think of how quickly women aged back then, its even more astounding that the portrait could portray a woman in her thirties. Also, the girl in the painting looks small and we know Jane was particularly tiny. But Henry VIII liked big women so I don't think Katherine Parr was that small.

The main reason I heard that the portrait is thought to be Catherine is that the dress in the picture was catalogued in Katherine's possessions when she died. But Jane lived with Katherine for awhile and the fact that the dress was in Katherine's possesion doesn't necessarily mean that she ever wore the dress.

[princess olga]

Originally Posted by ysbel

I've looked at that first portrait a thousand times and I just have a hard time believing its Catherine Parr. For one, Catherine was 31 years old when she married Henry VIII and the girl in the portrait does not look 31 to me but rather a teenager which corresponds more to Lady Jane Grey's age. When you think of how quickly women aged back then, its even more astounding that the portrait could portray a woman in her thirties. Also, the girl in the painting looks small and we know Jane was particularly tiny. But Henry VIII liked big women so I don't think Katherine Parr was that small.

The main reason I heard that the portrait is thought to be Catherine is that the dress in the picture was catalogued in Katherine's possessions when she died. But Jane lived with Katherine for awhile and the fact that the dress was in Katherine's possesion doesn't necessarily mean that she ever wore the dress.

I'm totally totally with you. Always envisioned Parr as a more mature figure, not the fresh faced girl of the mystery portrait. Of course, we could be way off, but it is said that Anne of Cleve (Henry's 4th wife whom he divorced because she didn't look at all like the lovely holbein portrait on which henry's interest in her had been based, instead he deemed her ugly), this same Anne was known to consider herself better looking than her successor Catherine Parr!!

Which, if anything, means Parr was perhaps not the fresh faced girl in the portrait. Then again, some people in their thirties look like the teens they once were. Others, the opposite. But I totally agree that as far as I'm concerned, that portrait isn't likely to be Catharine Parr.

[Am I Bothered]

Thank you for the info ysbel!

Was it Mary I that ordered Jane's execution and did she subsequently become Queen?

Sorry if my questions seems a bit stupid, I never could get my head around history? :(

[ladybelline]

Was it Mary I that ordered Jane's execution and did she subsequently become Queen?

Mary indeed ordered Jane's death, but if I remeber well, Mary was already Queen at that time. Jane was kept prisoner in the London Towerwhen Mary was proclamed and beheaded after being accused of treason and conspiration.

I agree, poor lady! She was so young!

[magnik]

I don't know if you know that but here you are: The Chronicle of Queen Jane and two years of Queen Mary:http://tudorhistory.org/primary/janemary/contents.html

[Maxie]

Originally Posted by ysbel

For many years, most experts thought that this portrait was of Lady Jane Grey but now most believe it is of Catherine Parr, Henry VIII's last queen.

That's what I call lovely news, ysbel. :)
It's quite curious by the way, that one painting about which the scientist weren't sure who it represented, crossed my path last week. I was looking for some pictures of Henry's wives for an art project I'm in and than I stumbled upon this portrait, which (as the website said) could be Jane Grey or Catherine Parr. I decided that it had to be Catherine Parr, since it I needed a picture of her. I'm happy to see that I wasn't completely off the hook.

[Elspeth]

Jane never seems to be included in the chronological list of kings and queens of England. If we get a queen regnant called Jane in the future, I wonder if she'd be Jane or Jane II.

[corazon]

in the official page of the monarchy jane is in tudors line but not like jane I

[Zonk]

Mary did order Jane's execution but at first, she was willing to pardon her. It wasn't until Wyatts rebellion (and his attempt to restore Jane to the throne) that Mary bowed to pressure from others (including Phillip) to execute her.

I love the movie Lady Jane with Helena Bonham Carter...of course its the "Hollywood" version of her life but from what I remember...it wasn't a great one. Treated like dirt by her parents, used as a pawn, forced to marry someone she didn't love, proclaimed queen when she didn't want to be and then executed...Shakespare couldn't have written a better tragedy.

[pinklady1991]

Originally Posted by Zonk1189

Mary did order Jane's execution but at first, she was willing to pardon her. It wasn't until Wyatts rebellion (and his attempt to restore Jane to the throne) that Mary bowed to pressure from others (including Phillip) to execute her.

I love the movie Lady Jane with Helena Bonham Carter...of course its the "Hollywood" version of her life but from what I remember...it wasn't a great one. Treated like dirt by her parents, used as a pawn, forced to marry someone she didn't love, proclaimed queen when she didn't want to be and then executed...Shakespare couldn't have written a better tragedy.

The Phillippa Gregory books are relatively historically accurate and give a pretty good description of how difficult it was to be a woman in that day and age (particularly if you had a will of your own). That era was difficult to live in regardless of your social status...and the more ambitious you were the more likely you were to die young and if you were guileless the more likely you would be used as a pawn.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Zonk1189

Mary did order Jane's execution but at first, she was willing to pardon her. It wasn't until Wyatts rebellion (and his attempt to restore Jane to the throne) that Mary bowed to pressure from others (including Phillip) to execute her.

I love the movie Lady Jane with Helena Bonham Carter...of course its the "Hollywood" version of her life but from what I remember...it wasn't a great one. Treated like dirt by her parents, used as a pawn, forced to marry someone she didn't love, proclaimed queen when she didn't want to be and then executed...Shakespare couldn't have written a better tragedy.

Hi Zonk, I know the movie you're talking about...they definitely romanticized Jane's marriage which looked like a marriage from hell in real life. I don't know if the story about her father taking part in Wyatt's rebellion is true.

I do know from another great book A Crown for Elizabeth that Mary spared Jane's mother because they had been childhood friends but Jane's mother Frances seemed the most conniving of the lot. Oddly enough, Frances went to Mary to beg for her husband's life but made no pleas for her daughter. Perhaps Jane was a lost cause by then but it did make you wonder what kind of family Jane was born into.

[Grace Angel]

Originally Posted by ysbel

Hi Zonk, I know the movie you're talking about...they definitely romanticized Jane's marriage which looked like a marriage from hell in real life. I don't know if the story about her father taking part in Wyatt's rebellion is true.

I do know from another great book A Crown for Elizabeth that Mary spared Jane's mother because they had been childhood friends but Jane's mother Frances seemed the most conniving of the lot. Oddly enough, Frances went to Mary to beg for her husband's life but made no pleas for her daughter. Perhaps Jane was a lost cause by then but it did make you wonder what kind of family Jane was born into.

I believe her parents were said to be quite cruel to her.. her mother at least even before she tried to claim the throne. To them, she was just something to use for their own ambitions. So it's not surprising they didn't beg for her life. None of the Grey sisters were lucky. Jane as a name is never used much anymore by non royals and hasn't been used in the RF since forever, and is unlikely to make a comeback.

[HM Queen Catherine]

Originally Posted by Grace Angel

I believe her parents were said to be quite cruel to her.. her mother at least even before she tried to claim the throne. To them, she was just something to use for their own ambitions. So it's not surprising they didn't beg for her life. None of the Grey sisters were lucky. Jane as a name is never used much anymore by non royals and hasn't been used in the RF since forever, and is unlikely to make a comeback.

Frances Brandon was a very cold and highly ambitious woman, whose marriage to Henry Grey was well-matched. She was also a woman extremely disappointed that she had not borne a living son and heir for her husband.

She was especially cruel to Jane, who was the eldest and bore the brunt of her parents ill treatment. Jane was under 10 years old, when in 1546 she was sent to live with Queen Katherine Parr. The Queen was very kind to Jane and they shared a close bond with each other.

But her parents had a motive even for sending her to the Queen. They were trying to arrange a marriage for her with Edward VI and put her on the throne as consort. Jane's father, the Duke of Suffolk, and Lord Thomas Seymour, were trying to gain control of the young King and minimize the power of the Protector.

Ultimately, they failed to arrange the marriage, and Jane was proposed as a bride for the son and heir of the Duke of Somerset. When that alliance also failed, she was married to Guilford Dudley, a younger son of the Duke of Northumberland.

It must be said that Jane Grey never aspired to be Queen, and that she was a poor pawn in the political games of her parents her whole life. Her only happiness was in her relationship with Katherine Parr, and the time she was in her household.

Otherwise, she appears to have been very bright and studious, and a gentle soul who was definitely born into the wrong family.

Queen Mary recognized this, and even though Jane had been tried for treason, found guilty and imprisoned in the tower, Mary intended to spare her life. She knew what kind of woman her cousin Frances was, just as she knew Jane to be sensitive and meek.

Wyatt's Rebellion, however, changed Queen Mary's mind. It was a popular revolt, of which the Duke of Suffolk took part, based on the nobility's opposition to the marriage of the Queen with the King of Spain. They called for Jane's restoration as Queen.

Philip of Spain and his councillors pressed Queen Mary to execute Jane and put an end to any future focus of unrest. Mary realized that as long as Jane lived, having once been declared Queen, that her reign would always be threatened by Protestant rebellion. And it was Mary's intention to return England to the Catholic faith.

Had it not been for Wyatt's Rebellion, Jane Grey would have kept her head.

I'm not quite sure when it was that Frances Brandon begged for the life of her husband, but he was executed a week after Jane and Guilford Dudley. It could have been that Jane was already dead at this point, and if not, I doubt Frances Brandon would have given much thought to Jane in any case. That was just the kind of woman she was.

Less than a month after the executions of her daughter and her husband, Frances Brandon married Adrian Stokes, who was Master of the Horse. This marriage shocked the court, and produced 3 children; Elizabeth (stillborn), Elizabeth Stokes (1555-1556) and a stillborn son. So she never did get her heir.

Frances was fully pardoned by Queen Mary and was allowed to remain at court with her daughters. But she was never known to have mentioned Jane again.

[Zonk]

I love her books...particulary "The Other Boleyn Girl which tells the story of Anne's sister, Mary who was also Henry VIII's mistress. Funny...how he can marry the woman of a former mistress but he uses Katharine marriage to Arthur as an excuse for a divorce. Talk about double standard :)

Also...The Virgin's Lover which tells the story from Amy Rosbart's point of view...of course..before her husband kills her so he can get with Elizabeth I. Yes, indeed...it was hard to be a woman during that time period:)

[Zonk]

Ysbel...yes if I recall in every thing I have read about Jane's life...her mother made no attempt to beg for her daughter's life. I am not sure if the father had anything to do with the rebellion..but the thinking was if Jane was removed...no one could use her as a reason for their cause. If I remember it correctly, the only true mother figure poor Jane had in her life was Queen Katharine Parr. The whole Princess Elizabeth/Thomas Seymour dalliance messed that up for the girl as well.

[felicia]

I would really like to know, if we had another Queen Jane, for instance, William's eldest daughter if he doesn't have a son, or William's eldest son's daughter if he doesn't have a son, would she be Queen Jane II? Or Jane I? I personally think she would have to be Jane II since Lady Jane Grey was actually the monarch of England, even if it was just for a very short period of time, it was a period of time nevertheless.

[magnik]

Originally Posted by felicia

I would really like to know, if we had another Queen Jane, for instance, William's eldest daughter if he doesn't have a son, or William's eldest son's daughter if he doesn't have a son, would she be Queen Jane II? Or Jane I? I personally think she would have to be Jane II since Lady Jane Grey was actually the monarch of England, even if it was just for a very short period of time, it was a period of time nevertheless.

If she would take/or would has the name of Jane.
No matter how long but Jane was a monarch. Like it was with young Jean I the Posthumous (November 15 - 20, 1316) King of France for the five days he lived. Few years after him there was Jean II