King Henry VIII and Wives (1491-1547)

[HM Queen Catherine]

Originally Posted by Wisteria

Lettice Knollys was a Carey who definitely wasn´t favoured by Queen Elizabeth II, well she wasn´t after she married in secret one of the Queen´s favourites the very handsome Walter Devereaux, the handsome Earl of Essex, who later on met a sticky end.

It was her 2nd husband, Robert Dudley, Earl of Leiceter, who was the great favorite of Queen Elizabeth. Lettice's secret marriage to him in 1578 did indeed get her banished from court. And Elizabeth never forgave either of them.

By this time, of course, Catherine Carey, Lady Knollys, had been dead for several years, having died in 1569.

[HM Queen Catherine]

Originally Posted by Ella Kay

So here's an interesting question, then: was Bessie Blount married when Henry FitzRoy was born? If not, perhaps Henry was only willing to acknowledge illegitimate children when doing so would not embarrass the man who was legally known to be the father of the child -- i.e., when the mistress was not married?

Bessie Blount was not married at the time of her affair with Henry VIII, as was previously stated.

Her son, Henry FitzRoy, was born 15 June 1519, and she continued her affair with the King until 1522, when she married her 1st husband. Her marriage to Gilbert Tailboys was said to have been arranged by the King.

Gilbert was created 1st Baron Tailboys of Kyme in 1529, several years after his step-son was created Duke of Richmond and Somerset. Apparently, he and Bessie remained in favor with the King after their marriage.

Gilbert and Bessie also had several children together. They were Elizabeth, George and Robert Tailboys.

Both of their sons died without issue, and Elizabeth eventually inherited the Barony. She was married to Ambrose Dudley, Earl of Warwick, who was Baron Tailboys in her right until her death in 1560. They had no children and the peerage became extinct on her death.

After Gilbert Tailboys died in 1530, Bessie Blount married Edward Clinton, 1st Earl of Lincoln, in 1534. They had 3 daughters together; Bridget, Katherine, and Margaret Clinton, who all survived to adulthood.

Katherine Clinton was Lady Borough of Gainsborough, and Margaret Clinton was Lady Willoughby of Parham.

[HM Queen Catherine]

Originally Posted by Marsel77

Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon was descended from Catherine Carey through her great-grandmother, Anne Caroline Salisbury, which makes Queen Elizabeth II the first Monarch with Henry VIII's blood (if Catherine was indeed Henry's daughter).

I had not heard that Anne Caroline Salisbury was a descendant of Catherine Carey. Do you have this ancestral line? Or do you know which of Catherine's children she was descended from?

[Marsel]

I believe Anne Salisbury's ancestor was Helena Savage (born West), one of the daughters of Anne Knollys and Thomas West. Anne Knollys was Catherine's daughter.

I have read this some 2-3 years ago and remembered it because I was studying the Tudors at the time. I am not certain what book(s) that was in (although I am sure it was a book, not an internet article), however if you are interested, I will try to find the source.

[HM Queen Catherine]

If you could find the source, that would be terrific. I have enabled private email on this forum, so you can send it to me if you find it. If not, then its ok.. just knowing the names is a great help for further research.

I'm very interested in this because this is my West line. I know that Helena West was born 15 Dec 1587 and that she married William Savage circa 1607, but I have no children listed for them.

Thanks for the information!

[Marsel]

My pleasure.
I will do my best to find the source; it has to be either in one of my books about the Tudors, or in the ones about Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother.

Another thing I remember, which may be of some help to you, is that Anne Salisbury was descendant from Helena and William Savage's second daughter (unfortunately, I don't remember the name), so they had at least two children.

[scooter]

Originally Posted by Wisteria

Lettice Knollys was a Carey who definitely wasn´t favoured by Queen Elizabeth II, well she wasn´t after she married in secret one of the Queen´s favourites the very handsome Walter Devereaux, the handsome Earl of Essex, who later on met a sticky end.

Yes, my best friend as a child's mother was a Devereaux, who had the whole family tree memorized, basically. Definately a descendant of Lettice and Walter Devereaux

[susan alicia]

Vatican sells facsimiles of Henry VIII letter that led to schism with Rome - Telegraph

[susan alicia]

Columbine Hall - History

Columbine Hall where Robert Carey lived, (possible) grandchild of Henry VIII and Mary Boleyn.

I loved it there, the pictures on the website do not do it justice (mine are much better), the garden in the 17th century manner with the moat, the house which has been restored in muted colours (has featured in the magazine World of Interiors).

Robert Carey, 1st Earl of Monmouth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by HM Queen Catherine

As a direct descendant of Mary Boleyn, I can tell you that we definitely exist!

There has been a lot of historical speculation regarding the paternity of Mary's children, Catherine and Henry. While it is true that Henry Carey was rumored to be the son of Henry VIII, and that he bore a striking resemblance to him, the fact that Henry VIII fathered Catherine Carey now seems to be finding its basis in the historical record.

The hand-written record of births recorded in a Latin dictionary owned by Sir Francis Knollys, seems to bear out the fact that Catherine Carey, his wife, was conceived during the time of Mary Boleyn's affair with the King.

It is true, that Henry VIII acknowledged neither of these children, but it must be pointed out that if he had, it would have been a situation that may have undermined his desire to marry Anne.

Besides, he had nothing to gain politically or otherwise by claiming the Carey children.

He did have a motive for advancing Henry FitzRoy, however, which was to put pressure on Catherine of Aragon. There was nothing she held more dear than her daughter, and Henry's elevation of his illegitimate son, would have at least made her believe in the possibility that Mary could be denied her rights to the succession. Unfortunately for Henry, his ploy failed. I doubt he ever seriously considered putting his illegitimate son on the throne, because his own dynasty had suffered under the suspicion of illegitimacy from the beginning.

[principessa]

Welt.de has a report on its website about Henry VIII.

König und Kraft- protz - WELT am SONNTAG - WELT ONLINE

And Rheinische Post has a report about Anna von Kleve.

http://www.rp-online.de/public/artic...n-England.html

[shari-aree]

Wow!
I am blown away with all the information and opinions at hand!
I love Royal History; with Henry VIII & Charles II (and those inbetween my fav's).
Does anyone know how long Katharine & Arthur were married?
& why her name is sometimes spelt with a C
- loving the posts!

Hello all currently on-line.
As I'm a "newbie" I would like some help please.
How do I retrieve the "reply"'s - when I see a number of replies beside my last post I click on them and I get names not answers?
Is there a set of instructions I can read?
Thanking you in anticipation...
Shari-aree

Wow Avalon really knows Royal History.
Can you please tell me how long Arthur & Katharine were married.
Ta!

[Marsel]

Welcome to the forum, shari-aree.
I'm not avalon but I'll be delighted to answer your question.

Arthur and Catherine's marriage was arranged when both were two years old (as part of the Treaty of Medina del Campo).
They were married by proxy in 1499 (both were 14 at the time).
Their actual marriage took place in November of 1501 (Arthur was 15, Catherine - 16) at St. Paul's Cathedral.
Arthur died in April 1502.

If one counts their marriage from May 1499 (the day of their marriage by proxy), then they were married for 2 years and 11 months.
If we starts the count from the date of their actual marriage (which took place days after they had met each other for the first time), then their marriage lasted only 4 months 15 days.

[shari-aree]

Thank you Marsel,
Your reply was very informative, you are very knowledgeable!
You must have a passion for Royal History!
I read a rumour from Russia that some Russians want the Romanov's to be invited to become the Royal Family of Russia - like the British model?
Do you think that is likely?
Personally I think that all 'exiled' Royals should be returned - if for Tourism and moral of each country alone.
I also don't like the 'celebrity-ness' of Hollywood used as examples for young girls. - Royal families have protocols and contain their behaviour (on the most part)- which is a far better example!

[Marsel]

Thank you, shari-aree.

You may find answers to your questions about Russian Royalty in these threads - Russia, Monarchy and Restoration, Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna and Prince Nicholas and Prince Dimitri Romanov.
Or, if you have more questions, ask them in one of those threads and I'm sure you will get answers.

[shari-aree]

G'Day Marsel,
Once again you have been very informative!
Thank you, I enjoy reading your responses.