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  #181  
Old 07-24-2017, 05:51 PM
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books on royal family

I have begun reading biographies about the British Royal family. I read "Diana: Her True Story" by Andrew Morton, the authorized biography of the Queen Mother by Shawcross, another book on the Queen Mother, by Lady Colin Campbell, and I am almost done reading the authorized biography on King Edward VIII. There are two books I want to read on Queen Mary, the consort to King George V. I was reading some reviews on Amazon and one person said to definitely read the authorized biography by James Pope-Hennessey as well as "Matriarch: Queen Mary and the House of Windsor" in tandem. Is there an authorized biography on King George VI and maybe another good book about him? Also, what about books on George V? I seem to be working my way backwards. It is interesting to me to see the same events from the perspective of the different people involved. Also, is there a good book King George V's family? It would be interesting to read about all of them in one book and about their family life and how it affected their ultimate choices in addition to reading about them one at the time. Thanks.
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  #182  
Old 10-04-2017, 07:28 PM
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I just began reading "The Reluctant King" by Sarah Bradford. I have made it to the part where Prince Albert (King George VI) and Elizabeth have decorated The Royal Lodge. It discussed how he decorated his bedroom and how she decorated her bedroom. At this point in their marriage they are still a young couple, married about 10 years. I have a question that is probably naive: why separate bedrooms?
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  #183  
Old 10-04-2017, 07:33 PM
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Still common in upper classes at that time, and they changed even slower.

The Queen and PP still do this to some extent.
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  #184  
Old 10-04-2017, 08:31 PM
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My working class grandparents started sleeping in separate bedrooms after about 30 years of marriage and did so until my grandfather died 5 years ago. The reason they gave was that she snored and he liked to watch TV in bed.
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  #185  
Old 10-04-2017, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
I just began reading "The Reluctant King" by Sarah Bradford. I have made it to the part where Prince Albert (King George VI) and Elizabeth have decorated The Royal Lodge. It discussed how he decorated his bedroom and how she decorated her bedroom. At this point in their marriage they are still a young couple, married about 10 years. I have a question that is probably naive: why separate bedrooms?
Not only was it very common among the upper class, apparently Cookie wasn't very fond of "certain aspects of married life".
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  #186  
Old 10-04-2017, 11:49 PM
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That is a totally spurious suggested that was peddled by a supposed Royal biographer, Lady Colin Campbell. No proof whatsoever. In fact I've read letters written by the Duke of York to his young wife in the 1920s in which he writes about picturing 'a little figure all alone in a big bed', when he was on royal duties abroad by himself.

That furphy leapt on by Lady Colin may have arisen because it was a long time before the couple had their first child (nearly three years.) However, possible low fertility has nothing to do with the number of times a week a couple are intimate.
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  #187  
Old 10-05-2017, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
I just began reading "The Reluctant King" by Sarah Bradford. I have made it to the part where Prince Albert (King George VI) and Elizabeth have decorated The Royal Lodge. It discussed how he decorated his bedroom and how she decorated her bedroom. At this point in their marriage they are still a young couple, married about 10 years. I have a question that is probably naive: why separate bedrooms?
as others have said, most upper class couples of that time had separate bedrooms and also separate dressing rooms.

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Originally Posted by Kronprinz View Post
Not only was it very common among the upper class, apparently Cookie wasn't very fond of "certain aspects of married life".
Evidence??? and who is "Cookie"? the only person who called her that was the Duchess of Windsor. Her correct title at the time of Marriage was Duchess of York and afterwards she was the queen.

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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
a long time before the couple had their first child (nearly three years.) However, possible low fertility has nothing to do with the number of times a week a couple are intimate.
I think that their small family was alos to do with some gynae problems. IIRC botht daughters were born by Caesaraian.. so problaby that is why they stopped at 2 children and didn't try for a boy..
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  #188  
Old 10-05-2017, 04:14 AM
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As previously stated, separate bedrooms was very common by the upper class. If I recall correctly, even the Windsor's had separate bedrooms. And it was noted in Downton Abbey (okay, it is a fictional show) but it was noted in season 1 or so how odd it was that the Earl and Cora shared a bedroom since that wasn't the norm. Maybe Mary said it while/before marrying Matthew?

I have known two of my friends parents who have haveseparate bedrooms. The first in high school, I was shocked as I had never seen such a thing. They literally filed for divorce within a year of their daughter graduating highschool. They were staying together for her (she was the youngest). And another college friend whose parents sleep in separate rooms because of sleep habits. They are/were devoted to each other. The mother has dementia now and lives in assisted living and the father visits her every day. Its quite sad.

But back to George and Elizabeth. Either way, I have never heard anything about their being no passion in the York marriage but back than, people didn't discuss that sort of thing. At least not publically or at least not Bertie. He was quite the anamoly of the brothers. George of Kent, Harry of Gloucester and Edward VIII all had interesting personal lives before and/after they married. And Bertie of was quite boring compared to them. And honestly there is much more to discuss about the couple than their sleeping arrangements i.e. their courtship, the Abdication, his reign, the war, the relationship between the couple and their daughters, the Windsors, etc.!

I have also never heard anything about not trying for a 3rd child because of delivery complications. But lest not forget, no one ever thought that Elizabeth of York would become Queen. It wasn't until Wallis appeared on the scene that the dream of Edward marrying and producing a heir died.

And I wouldn't believe anything Lady Colin Campbell says...she has quite the imagination.
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  #189  
Old 10-05-2017, 04:27 AM
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I think it is a reasonable assumption. If both children were delivered by Caesarian at that time, it was big operation and doctors didn't recommend doing it too often.
I don't think that anyone had great hopes of Edward marrying, by the late 1920s.. He seemed to be settled into a bachelor life...
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  #190  
Old 10-05-2017, 04:59 AM
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An assumption but not fact. Just, speculative.

And not to thread jack but people didn't lose hope of Edward marrying a respectable woman until the death of King George V. They were definitely hoping he would meet a nice woman while he was seeing Lady Thelma Furness and Freda Dudley Ward.

The establishment certainly didn't see Wallis coming nor did the family. From the books that I have read regarding the Abdication, specificaly the night of Edward's speech to the nation...they didn't actually think he would do until he did it. I think both Bertie and Elizabeth were in the dark.
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  #191  
Old 10-05-2017, 07:53 AM
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Lady Colin Campbell is the only source that I am aware of regarding that claim about the Queen Mother and I concur that the claim should be taken with a huge grain of salt if not dismissed outright. But even if such a notion was accepted, her husband continued to be besotted with her throughout their marriage.

I recall in a documentary about the Queen Mother that after Margaret's birth that "there would be no more babies". While it was not said outright, I concluded that she may have had a hysterectomy after Margaret's birth.

I think that people in the know probably thought that there was a reasonable chance that Bertie (or Elizabeth) would succeed Edward. Edward not only dated married women but they tended to be in his age range, actually Thelma Furness was 10 years younger, but still this was a man in his 40s when he succeeded with an established mistress, so the best hope would be that the relationship with Wallis would run its course and then he would perhaps meet a single woman in her twenties or a widow in her thirties, but again given Edward's proclivities I don't know if those close to the situation thought the odds of either happening were favorable. Also all of Edward's siblings had married and four of the siblings had children so the succession was secured.

The Duke of York, the future George VI, was aware that steps were being taken to get his brother to get rid of Wallis or abdicate, perhaps he was not kept in the loop once things were underway in earnest, but he was visited by Edward's private secretary (in October I think) and after that meeting wrote in his journal something along the lines that he would do his best to clean up the mess that would undoubtedly result if his brother abdicated.
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  #192  
Old 10-05-2017, 11:11 AM
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I don't think that Bertie and the others would have had high hopes of Edw "making a sutiable match and having heirs"..
Just they didn't imagine his setting up with a woman like Wallis for life or considering abdication if he could not marry this woman.
But I think that they problaby realised he wasn't into "marrying a well bred girl who woudl give him heirs." He generally liked mature women, and preferred i think to enjoy family life in a surrogate way. He was very fond of Freda DW's daughters.. and he didn't seem to show much inclination for finding a girl of suitable class and age, and marrying her. So I think that Bertie and Eliz felt that it was on the cards that they woudl succeed to the throne one day or that their daughters would be the royal heirs...
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  #193  
Old 10-05-2017, 11:45 AM
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I don't think that Bertie and the others would have had high hopes of Edw "making a sutiable match and having heirs"..
Just they didn't imagine his setting up with a woman like Wallis for life or considering abdication if he could not marry this woman.
But I think that they problaby realised he wasn't into "marrying a well bred girl who woudl give him heirs." He generally liked mature women, and preferred i think to enjoy family life in a surrogate way. He was very fond of Freda DW's daughters.. and he didn't seem to show much inclination for finding a girl of suitable class and age, and marrying her. So I think that Bertie and Eliz felt that it was on the cards that they woudl succeed to the throne one day or that their daughters would be the royal heirs...
It has also been mooted that a serious bout of prepubescent mumps led to orchitis which left Edward sterile. It's alleged that George and Mary were aware that this was a possibility. It would explain his 'boyishness' -the soft, pink, and relatively hairless skin. A disease which retards sexual growth, may also be responsible for retarding physical, emotional, and intellectual growth. His childish 'love' letters to both Freda and Wallis are not those of a mature man.
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  #194  
Old 10-05-2017, 12:02 PM
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its alos been mooted that Edw had a few illegitimate children...
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  #195  
Old 10-05-2017, 12:35 PM
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its alos been mooted that Edw had a few illegitimate children...
Mumps and orchitis is verified by Philip Ziegler in his "King Edward VIII" biography.
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  #196  
Old 10-05-2017, 12:35 PM
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Edward has only allegedly had illegitimate children - none were acknowledged or ever verified in any way
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  #197  
Old 10-05-2017, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by padams2359 View Post
Still common in upper classes at that time, and they changed even slower.

The Queen and PP still do this to some extent.
Thanks. That makes sense.
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  #198  
Old 10-05-2017, 12:48 PM
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Lady Colin Campbell is the only source that I am aware of regarding that claim about the Queen Mother and I concur that the claim should be taken with a huge grain of salt if not dismissed outright. But even if such a notion was accepted, her husband continued to be besotted with her throughout their marriage.

.
I agree about that book. I am ashamed to say I read it and the only sources I remember Lady Colin Campbell mentioning were her mother-in-law and the Duke of Windsor, as well as sources that didn't want to be named. I know that there are some reputable books that use some unnamed sources, but in Lady Colin Campbell's case I take those to be her imagination. I don't know anything about her Mother-in-Law but it seemed like jealousy to me. As far as the Duke of Windsor is concerned, I don't believe him. He was a self-centered, narcissistic, shallow man who I don't regard as a reputable source. The reason the separate bedrooms confused me was because of the fact that Prince Albert (King George VI) was infatuated with Elizabeth their whole marriage, just like you said. I can't imagine that would be the case if she had denied him the physical side of the relationship. I just did not realize that it was common place to have separate bedrooms in the upper classes. I read the authorized biography on her and it revealed that she had had colon cancer ( I think ) at one point and had to have surgery. Since gynecological matters were not discussed by people in that generation it is very well possible that she had a hysterectomy that has not been revealed.
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  #199  
Old 10-05-2017, 02:18 PM
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I agree about that book. I am ashamed to say I read it and the only sources I remember Lady Colin Campbell mentioning were her mother-in-law and the Duke of Windsor, as well as sources that didn't want to be named. I know that there are some reputable books that use some unnamed sources, but in Lady Colin Campbell's case I take those to be her imagination. I don't know anything about her Mother-in-Law but it seemed like jealousy to me. As far as the Duke of Windsor is concerned, I don't believe him. He was a self-centered, narcissistic, shallow man who I don't regard as a reputable source. The reason the separate bedrooms confused me was because of the fact that Prince Albert (King George VI) was infatuated with Elizabeth their whole marriage, just like you said. I can't imagine that would be the case if she had denied him the physical side of the relationship. I just did not realize that it was common place to have separate bedrooms in the upper classes. I read the authorized biography on her and it revealed that she had had colon cancer ( I think ) at one point and had to have surgery. Since gynecological matters were not discussed by people in that generation it is very well possible that she had a hysterectomy that has not been revealed.
I read, and it may VERY well be apocryphal, that there was a delay in proclaiming Elizabeth as Queen until it was certain that the Queen Mother wasn't pregnant! I offer no opinion on this.
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Old 10-05-2017, 02:36 PM
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I read, and it may VERY well be apocryphal, that there was a delay in proclaiming Elizabeth as Queen until it was certain that the Queen Mother wasn't pregnant! I offer no opinion on this.
I've also read that. I believe it was in the book "Royal Feud."
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