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  #121  
Old 12-28-2016, 06:13 PM
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Considering the lack of effective medicines and the fact that Prince George (later Duke of Kent) was close to his brother John and may have witnessed a seizure or two, George and Mary might have felt that the calm atmosphere away in Norfolk would help John. The advice from doctors may have proposed a regular daytime routine, a loved nurse to look after him, toys and animals, no excitement etc. That wouldn't have been possible at Court as John got older and of course he wouldn't have been able to go away to school as his brothers did.
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  #122  
Old 12-28-2016, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I will be the first to admit that my opinion here is not based on years of study or reputable sources as the only real insight into this is based on a movie that has made the rounds over the years on my TV stations.

I'm referring to George V and Mary and their parenting skills of Prince John. Its my understanding that because John had epileptic seizures, he was somewhat of an embarrassment to the family and eventually was sent off to live at Wood Farm with his own staff. I know its a different age and a different time but I cannot imagine parents actively separating themselves from their child in this matter. Perhaps that's how things were done then? It was far more acceptable to put a "defective" child into an institution then than it would be now but still, I do think it reflects their attitude towards their children.

Just a thought.
That is looking at the issue through our current approach/knowledge and available remedies. This approach at the time was not unusual but he was fortunate in that he was in a familiar environment which he apparently loved, with people who cared for him. I saw a picture the other day of all five children at Sandringham - John seemed about 9 yrs old and looked v happy.

As regarding "defective" children, the UK were placing children with Downe's in homes right up to the 1980's (this is just an example, I know John did not have Downe's)

I think George and Mary did their best.
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  #123  
Old 12-28-2016, 06:53 PM
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I recently read a biography about Mary of Tek ..this issue was discussed in the book several times. The overall outcome I took away from the book was it was felt he was unable to function well in all the goings on in the larger household and recommended he and a nurse/staff be moved somewhere he would have quite and a consistent routine.


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  #124  
Old 12-28-2016, 07:02 PM
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Thanks everyone for the wonderful input on my observation of Prince John and his parents. The more I read of your comments, the more I realize just how off kilter my opinion was. It does point towards George V and Mary doing what they felt was best for John.
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  #125  
Old 12-28-2016, 07:39 PM
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I think what George and Mary did was what many well to do parents would have done during the same time period. And that was provide him with a safe environment with a dedicated staff to take care of him. Definitely trying to keep some sort of routine for John. Something that we wouldn't even think about today. George and Mary were also from a social class who saw their children at designated times during the day and didn't even realize that one of the nannies was abusing poor Edward as a baby. I do recall Mary expressing deep sadness regarding the death of John.

In regards to their parenting, it is quite interesting the kind of parents they turned out to be. George was very close with Edward [who kept him in the loop when Eddy died and George became Prince of Wales], and stated that he lost his best friend when he died. We all know that Alexandra was over protective and tried to remain deeply involved in his life. I have read about Mary as well, and I recall she had a good relationship with both of her parents. Although she tended to be a bit embarrassed about her Mother. It's telling that with the exception of Edward who didn't have kids, all of their kids [Albert, George, Mary and Henry], were the opposite of their parents with their parenting skills.
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  #126  
Old 12-28-2016, 08:53 PM
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When I think of George and Mary's "bad parenting," incidents involving David and Bertie come to mind rather than how they handled John's situation. I think that they got a bad rap in that I would see documentaries and/or biographies that would state that George and Mary sent John away out of shame but then it would be acknowledged that he was in the public eye even after he started having seizures.
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  #127  
Old 12-28-2016, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
In regards to their parenting, it is quite interesting the kind of parents they turned out to be. George was very close with Edward [who kept him in the loop when Eddy died and George became Prince of Wales], and stated that he lost his best friend when he died. We all know that Alexandra was over protective and tried to remain deeply involved in his life. I have read about Mary as well, and I recall she had a good relationship with both of her parents. Although she tended to be a bit embarrassed about her Mother. It's telling that with the exception of Edward who didn't have kids, all of their kids [Albert, George, Mary and Henry], were the opposite of their parents with their parenting skills.
George V and Mary are both described as having been demonstrably affectionate with their children, but at the same time George V was also a harsh disciplinarian (not unusual for the time), and I believe he and Mary both had very high standards for how members of the family should behave.

It's fair to assume that Edward VIII didn't meet those standards at any point in his life, and I wouldn't be surprised if George, Duke of Kent's own behaviour was deemed not exactly appropriate (between his many affairs with women and men and his alleged drug addiction)... As for Bertie (George VI), Henry, and John... none of them were healthy, robust boys. John had epilepsy and an diagnosed intellectual disability. Bertie had a stammer, was left handed, had chronic stomach problems, and was knock kneed. Henry also had speech issues (notably rhotacism) and knocked knees, and was prone to fits of crying or giggling

I doubt George V and Mary really had the tools to be better parents than they were, given their children's issues and the time they lived in. Well, other than the nanny that abused Edward. That they should have caught sooner.
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  #128  
Old 12-28-2016, 10:30 PM
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The nurse, according to the stories, had some very peculiar character traits, which should have been picked up by any observant parent, IMO. I've read about this woman's idolatry of David and wanting him to be always with her.

However, she was neglectful in her treatment of Bertie. Apparently she would be very impatient with him during bottle feeding times and later just shovel his meals into his mouth in her anxiety to be back with David (Edward.) This, it's been said, was the root cause of his digestive problems as a young man.

However, minor mystery, I don't believe any member of the nursery staff has ever been traced who left suddenly at the relevant time, so I'm wondering whether the sadistic nurse story is in fact a myth.
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  #129  
Old 12-29-2016, 05:09 AM
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The sadistic nurse story was told as real in the Mary of Tek bio I read.


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  #130  
Old 12-29-2016, 07:16 AM
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Yes, I've read several biographies too with the same story. Checking again after my last post I found this, a pretty alarming picture of the women employed in the nurseries at York Cottage after the Duchess's first children were born. There were two possibles, both ending up in mental institutions according to this, or maybe the three women named here have morphed from one individual.

RootsWeb: GENBRIT-L Re: Nannies of Royal children.
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  #131  
Old 02-27-2017, 05:16 AM
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King George V's sword set to fetch £8k at auction | Royal | News | Express.co.uk
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  #132  
Old 03-26-2017, 02:48 PM
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There is no doubt that George loved his children. There's some particularly lovely photos of him with his eldest child cuddling and being affectionate.

The problem can when the children were older and he didn't know how to handle them
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  #133  
Old 05-01-2017, 05:17 AM
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Tartan suit tailored for George V sells for £25,000 | Daily Mail Online

"Tartan suit that was tailored for George V before he handed it down to his son Edward VIII sells for 25,000 pound at auction"
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  #134  
Old 08-05-2017, 03:48 AM
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I was glancing at an old bio of Q Alexandra, and found a bit abuot George Vs being in love with Julie Stonor, the daughter of one of A's ladies in waiting. Alix was very fond of her and hanlded them gently during the romance, as she knew it could come to notihng. but I think the book said something to the effect that his love for Julie kept him out of sexual shenangians during his young years. however I gather it didn't, not entirely!
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  #135  
Old 08-05-2017, 04:07 AM
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Probably true what they say about sailors! George wrote to her a lot when he was at sea. Her widowed mother Eliza had been Alex's Woman of the Bedchamber but she died quite young leaving four children, Julie and her brother Frank who became a Peer, (can't remember who now) and two other brothers.

Alexandra took the Stonor offspring under her wing and they were at Sandringham a lot. By the time Julie was in her late teens George and she were in love (to a certain extent) but the Stonors were Roman Catholic and so there was that to contend with. Shades of Eddy and Helene d' Orleans!

Looked Julie up. She married a French Marquis, Pierre d' Hautpoul in 1891. Presumably he was a Roman Catholic. She died in 1950. Julie had one child who died at birth.
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  #136  
Old 08-05-2017, 06:33 AM
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Yes I gather she remianed good friends with Q Alex during the latters lonely and sad widowhood.. But it was more than her being an RC, I'm sure that at that time even a second son would not be permitted to marry a girl of her rank.
But as I recall George V did share women with his brother Eddy...
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  #137  
Old 09-03-2017, 05:14 PM
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I just finished two biographies on Queen Mary and they cleared up for me the questions I had about Prince John. Also, can someone recommend a good biography or two on King George V? I have been reading books on the British Monarchy. As I said in a previous post I just finished 2 on Queen Mary and now want to know more about King George V.
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  #138  
Old 09-04-2017, 07:46 AM
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'King George V' by Kenneth Rose is a good all round balanced book about this King, IMO. It's quite reasonably priced on Amazon.
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  #139  
Old 09-08-2017, 10:28 AM
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'King George V' by Kenneth Rose is a good all round balanced book about this King, IMO. It's quite reasonably priced on Amazon.
Thanks. I just ordered it from Thriftbooks.
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  #140  
Old 09-18-2017, 10:03 AM
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I recently finished reading two books on Queen Mary (one of them authorized) and one on King Edward VIII (Duke of Windsor), also authorized, and these books discussed the parenting style of King George V and Queen Mary as not being very good. One of the books attributed King George VI stuttering problem with how he was parented and also his sister Mary's problems (which I had never heard of) to the same parenting, not to mention the Duke of Windsor's issues. However, I am currently reading the biography by Kenneth Rose on King George V and he says the opposite. He says that they were better parents than most people in their social class. He includes a quote from a lifelong friend of Queen Mary who says they were affectionate and loving but that the tragedy was that they did not understand the mind of a child. So which is it? I am confused.
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