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  #481  
Old 09-11-2016, 02:36 AM
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Based on what I've read, Edward and Alexandra were often locked in a number of low level spats with one another, often involving Alexandra deliberately overdoing the goofy-womanchild act, trolling him over small things and disappearing off to see her siblings for lengthy stretches - she could not help being dull and clingy. Edward's sexual behaviour was more a way of expressing anger against his mother and sisters who where the more dominant personalities in the Familiy after Albert died. Alex was often the butt of this resentment as she appealed to Victoria and Edwards sisters (esp Vicky) more than to Edward himself - he tended to like masculine looking women with strong, entertaining personalities (incidentally one of the reasons he liked his daughter in law queen Mary so much). Alex on the other hand was very overtly girly, became more isolated after her deafness kicked in and was very focused on her children even after they were too old for such behaviour. Mismatched personalites and no chemistry.
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  #482  
Old 09-11-2016, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
We are going to disagree.



His last mistress was Daisy who he was still with until 1901 or 1902.
His last mistress was Alice. He had left Daisy by the late 1890s.

Quote:
Edward did not have as many as people claim. This is just lies and gossip.
He had quite a number - with the exception of the first couple of years of his marriage those who invited him to stay had to invite his special female friend and ensure they could be intimate with each other without any problems. Alix was an optional extra. The lady friend wasn't.

Quote:
There is no evidence that Alexandra invited any of Edward's mistresses to Sandringham.
I have my great-great-grandfather's diaries of who was at Sandringham at the same time he was there including Daisy Warwick when she was Edward's mistress along with Alice.

Quote:
None were invited to celebrate Alexandra's birthday.
I never claimed she did.

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That is not what Edward believed. He accused her of infidelity.
She was advised to not have intimate relations with any man by her mid-20s unless she wanted to die.

Edward never accused her of infidelity. He knew she had a close friendship with a few men but never that she went to bed with any of them knowing that a pregnancy could endanger her life.

Quote:
She was invited by the Queen Alexandra to celebrate birthday.
At Edward's insistence. He insisted his current mistress was invited to many events and Alix grinned and bore it - otherwise she would have seen even less of her husband than she did.

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Sonia is pure Keppel. She resembles her Keppel side. She looks like her Keppel cousins and aunts.
Doesn't prove George was her father though - given Alice's proclivities (and there were many men.

Quote:
(Unless Edward VII was a Keppel. Queen Victoria and Queen Alexandra did adore Henry Keppel.)
Given the number of illegitimate children throughout history that isn't actual proof.

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And there is a picture of Queen Alexandra with Henry Keppel arm & arm while holding hands.
Your point I assume was that Alix was having an affair with Henry.

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All gossip.
Not gossip but known facts by those who moved in the right circles - such as my great-great-grandparents.

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Edward was easily bored and Alice was known for her quick wit.
She was known for way more than her quick wit. A large percentage of his circle stayed for the post-nuptial activities but he left to go to Alice - not anyone else but just Alice.

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Which Keppels? Henry, Colin and Mary, Derek and Bridget, Arnold and Gertrude, George and Alice.
George and Alice - obviously.

They wanted Edward to stay for longer and he would only do so if Alice was there and as they couldn't justify an invitation for her then he was always going to leave early.

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Did Edward and George want the entire Keppel clan at your family wedding
They didn't have anything to say about the guest list other than Edward wanting Alice to attend.

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Derek Keppel was the best friend of George V and Bridget was Queen Mary's friend
Good for them

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What evidence?
The diaries of many members of the aristocracy. The sleeping arrangements at many house parties. The stories from the staff in many homes from the day.

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What words?
Alice's own words.

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What family's history?
The Keppels - who have told the story for generations to their descendants

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I did extensive research for years before coming to this conclusion.
So did I using the primary evidence of the correspondence about my great-great-grandparents' wedding, the sleeping plans that my grandmother found amongst her mother's papers from when they hosted Edward and Alice (no Alix) and her mother's notes on those visits, the letters by great-grandfather received from his father when Edward died etc etc.

My evidence comes first hand from family who witnessed the relationship and knew what was happening.

Other aristocratic families would have similar records within their own papers.
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  #483  
Old 09-11-2016, 03:05 AM
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Oh good lord. Edward slept around because he wanted to. Most men would like to, and he had the opportunity to have loads of women. His wealth and social position and lack of a serious job meant that he had plenty of time and energy and money to spend on pursuit of pleasure.
I don't think it had antying to do with "anger against women"...or that his women were "masculine looking".
He and Alix were fond of each other, but they had married very young and had done so because they were both royal and had to get married.. As a newspaper said at the time there were only about 7 women at that juncture that Ed could marry, so he was lucky that he got one who was nice and charming and very lovely and who appealed to him.. They didn't have much in common esp as Alix got deaf and retired to her home life and over devoted herself to her children. But he loved her.. even if she bored him..
He was fooling around well before she got deaf.. -
I think that she was rather possessive, because that was her nature, she clung to the children.. and she was rather resentful at times of the fact that Edward wanted more amusmetn than she could give him and that he was so VERY unfaithful..
So they had rows and bad times like the best of couples do, and since she could not (and wouldn't want to.. as I don't think she was that sexy) have an affair herself, she hit back, by being rather tiresome (which only drove Edward to spend more time away) and then she would take off for Denmark, to spent more time with her own family (who also bored Edward).. I think that this was a bit of a punishment because it sometimes caused gossip in the papers and he might get a ticking off from his mother for upsetting his wife.
Their marriage was far from perfect, but it was problaby better than a lot of marriages...
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  #484  
Old 09-11-2016, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
No you do not need to take my word.

I . This does not include Alice's yearly trust fund nor George's income from his investments and various jobs. When Alice needed money she went to her brother. Alice's mother was also rich. I sure Alice could have walked the few yards to her mother's house.

The lease on 30 Portman's Square was 160 a year.
I'm sure that whatever money Alice had, the interest on 15k and extra from "George's jobs" would not keep her suitalbly in the society she lived in, where she was mixing with the POW/King..and with 2 daughters to keep and dower.
She went to see Ed on his deathbed, and Alix wasn't too happy with it. Why would she be jealous if Alice was only his friend?
It happened. She was no different to a lot of society women that she used her charms, both social and sexual to get things, for herself and her husband and family. It does not mean she was sleeping with every rich man she met, but she probably did sleep with some, and with others it was a flirty relationship or one where she did social favours like getting them into higher social circles..
Getting a job or investment advice for her husband was one of the things that many society wives did, and they used whatever charms and gifts nature had given them to do this...
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  #485  
Old 09-11-2016, 06:24 PM
Queen Camilla's Avatar
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69 years ago today Alice Keppel died.
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  #486  
Old 09-11-2016, 07:25 PM
Queen Camilla's Avatar
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His last mistress was Daisy. He was still seeing her even after she outed him as impotent.
She is listed in his diaries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I have my great-great-grandfather's diaries of who was at Sandringham at the same time he was there including Daisy Warwick when she was Edward's mistress along with Alice. So did I using the primary evidence of the correspondence about my great-great-grandparents' wedding, the sleeping plans that my grandmother found amongst her mother's papers from when they hosted Edward and Alice (no Alix) and her mother's notes on those visits, the letters by great-grandfather received from his father when Edward died etc etc.

My evidence comes first hand from family who witnessed the relationship and knew what was happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
They wanted Edward to stay for longer and he would only do so if Alice was there and as they couldn't justify an invitation for her then he was always going to leave early.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
They didn't have anything to say about the guest list other than Edward wanting Alice to attend.
Maybe you can share especially the dates.

Several of Edward's staff and friends wrote books and kept journals that they publish during Edward's lifetime or shortly thereafter. I have read these so it would be interesting to see what other wrote about Edward that was contemporary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
She was advised to not have intimate relations with any man by her mid-20s unless she wanted to die.

Edward never accused her of infidelity. He knew she had a close friendship with a few men but never that she went to bed with any of them knowing that a pregnancy could endanger her life.
In 1871 while suffering from typhoid fever he accused her of infidelity. Some dismissed it as the 'fever talking'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The diaries of many members of the aristocracy. The sleeping arrangements at many house parties. The stories from the staff in many homes from the day. Doesn't prove George was her father though - given Alice's proclivities (and there were many men.
Not gossip but known facts by those who moved in the right circles - such as my great-great-grandparents. She was known for way more than her quick wit.
This is distasteful and no proof of this. This is sheer gossip and lies about a woman they did not personally know. The people who actually knew Alice also wrote books and this is far from the description of the real Alice. It is repugnant to suggest that Alice had many men or that her daughter was not the child of her husband. This contradicts all the information about Alice that her friends and family knew.

George Keppel wanted a son. Alice actually minded what people thought of her. She was a conventional woman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Alice's own words.
The Keppels - who have told the story for generations to their descendants.
Alice Keppel never spoke so what were her words and to whom? Which Keppel and their descendants? This sound more like the DM type of stories.

I have extensive knowledge of the Keppel family tree so names would be helpful, especially since Alice and George saw more of her family than his.
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  #487  
Old 09-11-2016, 11:18 PM
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Yes in his fever he "accused her" of infidelity. Probably the fever talking.
I can't understand that anyone seiously would think that Alix, a very religious woman who had had 6 babies in about 6 years, had had rheumatic fever during one pregnancy and been very ill (and Bertie was then out whooping it up with other women)...who problaby was very relieved to finish with sex after all that, (I don't know of any definite evidence that she was told not to have more children because of health reasons),.would be unfaithful?

She is well known to have had a romantic friendship with Oliver Montagu, and Bertie was fine with that; it was not uncommon for women who didn't want a sex life/coudlnt' have affairs because of various reasons, to have a male companion who was a bit in love and kept them company esp if they had a neglectful husband.

I don't see why you would interpret Bertie's fever talk as "accusing Alix of adultery," which was IMO quite preposterous.. but refuse to accept that Bertie had plenty of affairs.
It is very likely that In his fever Bertie was re-running rows that he had had with Alix over HIS infidelties and in his muddle, transferring the guilt to her..He got upset when he saw her, when he was delerious, problaby because of his own guilty feelings about her..

I think that Alix problaby was glad to finish with a sex life when she had produced 6 children, lost her last son, John, at one day old and been very ill at times...
She may have been told that it was not advisable to have more, I don't know if that was true.. but if so, it seems to me that that would fit in with Bertie leaving her alone even more and taking to other women, to "official" affairs with upper class women.. and Alix being rather jealous and hurt, but consoling herself with her children and her romantic friendship...
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  #488  
Old 09-12-2016, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I know nothing about this book, which is probably extremely unreliable.
George replied that peace reigned but "Alas Mrs K arrives tomorrow and stops here in a yacht. I am afraid that peace and quiet will not remain.'
May, his wife, sympathised and wrote back 'What a pity Mrs G K is again to the fore! How annoyed Mama (Queen Alexandra) will be!'

.'
I don't think that Alexandra was all that happy with the Keppel affair. Alice was seen as Bertie's "partner". people including politicans used her to gain access to him in his private life...
she went on hols with him and Alexandra felt that this was intruding on her status as his wife. Lillie L was one of his earlier official mistresses and ALexandra seems to have liked her better, perhaps because Lillie wasn't as intrusive or because being one of the first of his "lady mistresses" she wasn't as settled in the positon as a later one like Alice K became. Or perhaps she just liked Lillie better, she was apparently very charming.
But I have read this about George V writing to May and saying that "peace and quiet would not continue" when Alice K turned up and was staying near them. She problably felt particularly annoyed that she was on holiday with her husband, he was giving her some attention. and here was Alice coming along to intrude on her private time.. Even if she did not officially visit the Royal Yacht she was there nearby and I'm sure Alex thought of Bertie slipping off to see her..
And yes of course the letter is about Mrs George Keppel. Why on earth woud it be about the Kaiser? He was Willie or Wilhelm or "Cousin Willy" not the Kaiser...
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  #489  
Old 09-17-2016, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Lily Langtry didn't have her child with her husband. She too was a lover of Edward's but the child was possible Prince Louis of Battenburg's making her the half-aunt of Philip's. Lord Louis certainly believed she was his half-sister.


The affair started in 1898 or 1899 and Sonia was born in 1900 so definitely possible.
As I recall Lily didn't have any children for some years and when she got Pregnant by Louis of Battenberg she concealed the pregnancy, because she was known to be separated from her husband.
So she didn't have a husband to be an official father to her child as was "the rule".
Possibly she wasn't interested in children and took precautions and since Edward Langtry was a failure and not around as a husband, she and he weren't considered as a couple and she did not feel any obligation to produce children fror him.
Or possibly she wasn't very fertile and hadn't considered that she could have children and the was surprised to find herself pregnant.
Alice however was as far as I know on good terms with her husband and I'd say it is likely that she had her 2 children and then stopped.. and problably her physical relationship with George stopped because she was involved with Bertie and possibly other men.
Its possible that Sonia Keppel was Bertie's child but I'd say more likely that she was her legal father's..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
Alice Keppel was one of the nicest people. She was kind hearted and sweet.

A
There are photographs of Alice at Sandringham with the BRF including Alexandra. One is from 1899, when Alice was pregnant with Sonia.
She may have been a very nice person, that does not mean she didn't take lovers....
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  #490  
Old 11-03-2016, 03:13 PM
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I've seemed to have read a story on here or somewhere else about Edward and his brother getting into a spat about one of them shooting the others birds on an estate. Does anybody else know this story?
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  #491  
Old 11-03-2016, 05:07 PM
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No, never read that. That's not to say it didn't happen. Edward's relationships with his siblings in later life often weren't very close, though naturally they loved each other. When young he was very close to Vicky, Alice and Affie, but seems to have regarded Alfred as a bit of a bore in later years, (as did others) and of course Alice died prematurely.

Like many others with much younger siblings he was married and out of the parental home by the time the youngest were growing up. When he was King Louise was often invited to Sandringham when Helena (Lenchen) and Beatrice werent, allegedly because he enjoyed her acerbic wit. He supposedly hardly ever saw Beatrice in later life.
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  #492  
Old 11-04-2016, 01:53 PM
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It's a a shame I can't figure out where I read it.

Another of my favourite stories is when Bertie helped a fire in the nursery and began to help out when he could on other fires in the area. Apparently it wasn't uncommon for him to leave the table during dinner. Victoria was not impressed
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  #493  
Old 11-04-2016, 04:30 PM
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I also read that they Bertie and Affie grew apart as they got older. What I find interesting is that Bertie's heir George, while he was close to his father, seemed to have a lot more in common with his Uncle Affie - it was through Affie that George started stamp collecting. Although, while I find it interesting, it is not hard to see why George ended up so much like Affie considering that both George and Affie were second sons and were set on similar paths, they also served in the same naval ports but I am trying to recall if George served under his uncle.

I assume that the distance between Bertie and Helena came about because Helena married a man who was on a different side than Bertie's wife, Alexandra and her family regarding the Schleswig- Holstein question.

Beatrice was much younger than Bertie so that can explain why they were not close but also there were differences between them like over the disposition of Osborne House. Plus it seems to me that Bertie tended to have tensions with people who were close to Victoria.
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  #494  
Old 11-04-2016, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyAlice View Post
It's a a shame I can't figure out where I read it.

Another of my favourite stories is when Bertie helped a fire in the nursery and began to help out when he could on other fires in the area. Apparently it wasn't uncommon for him to leave the table during dinner. Victoria was not impressed
Yes, Bertie was a great friend of Captain Shaw, the Chief of the London Fire Brigade. Shaw was a very well known figure in London Society. I think he's referred to in a song in one of the Gilbert and Sullivan operettas. He was involved in a scandalous divorce case at one stage.

Bertie probably liked the excitement and drama of huge fires. He supposedly rode on one of the horse-drawn Fire engines with Shaw and his men sometimes, wearing one of the brass helmets of the day!
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  #495  
Old 11-27-2016, 02:59 AM
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Alice Keppel medals: War-time nurse and mistress of King Edward VII | UK | News | Daily Express
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  #496  
Old Today, 02:27 AM
eya eya is online now
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Holiday photos of the Russian and British royal families | Daily Mail Online

PICTURED: Last image of Russian royal family visiting King Edward VII in 1909 FOUND | Royal | News | Express.co.uk

The last pictures of Russian Royal Family visiting King Edward VII in 1909 found
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