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  #301  
Old 01-25-2010, 04:54 AM
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Queen Victoria insisted it was her right to be present at the deliveries of her grandchildren and greatgrandchildren where possible. Alexandra did not want her at any of her confinements. She succeeded in this.
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  #302  
Old 01-25-2010, 06:29 AM
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Alexandra obviously didn't want Victoria at the birth of her children, because there was friction between the two. I'm sorry but I wouldn't like my mother in law at the birth of my children.
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  #303  
Old 01-25-2010, 02:52 PM
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Alexandra and hunting !!

quote "she also enjoyed hunting to the dismay of queen victoria, who asked her to stop , without any success " end quote.

yes alexandra did go hunting , as it was expected of her by conventional members of society, the very same society of which queen victoria disapproved of !!

however when out hunting alexandra was often heard to say "i hope that the poor fox would escape "" and whilst she was attending the shoots at the big country house parties, it is said that she did not relish the mass slaughter of game !!

yes her own love and humane views, extended far beyond her family and fellow mankind, but to all living creatures !!
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  #304  
Old 01-25-2010, 03:45 PM
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Ah, I see. I just didn't realize there was so much friction between the two. I thought she liked Alexandra. As for the birth of her grandchildren, hmm - strange. Besides the whole Germany thing and hunting was there anything else Victoria did not like about her?
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  #305  
Old 01-25-2010, 04:26 PM
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Ah, I see. I just didn't realize there was so much friction between the two. I thought she liked Alexandra. As for the birth of her grandchildren, hmm - strange. Besides the whole Germany thing and hunting was there anything else Victoria did not like about her?
Victoria was not only a formidable woman and domineering mother (and mother-in-law), but she was also head of state of the most powerful empire of the time. She was also very stubborn and partisan, her early reign marked by her clear favoritism of Lord Melbourne and the Whigs. I think Albert was a good influence on her, modeling the royal family to be politically neutral. Victoria's character was that of extremes: extreme passion during her marriage and extreme morning in widowhood.

I would bet that some of the friction between her and Alexandra was due to her disenchantment (in addition to the German thing) with her son, Bertie, whom still always blamed for Albert's death. She did not get along another daughter-in-law, Marie Alexandrovna, Duchess of Edinburgh even though the latter was pro-German. Being the spoiled only daughter of the Tsar, she was also formadable and a snob, resenting that Alexandra took precedence over her in the English court. We don't know much about her relationship with her less famous daughters-in-law, the Duchesses of Connaught and Albany.
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  #306  
Old 01-25-2010, 04:36 PM
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it was only during the early years of alexandra's marriage that there was friction between the two women, it was in the 1880's that the relationship changed !!
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  #307  
Old 01-25-2010, 04:40 PM
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So wht kind of mother-in-law Victoria was fo Alexandra and what kind of daughter-in-law Alexandra was for Victoria?
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  #308  
Old 01-25-2010, 04:50 PM
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I believe the old Queen was put out because Alexandra's babies came early and her labors never lasted long enough for the Queen to arrive before the baby was born-- I don't think Alexandra could arrange to deliver her babies earlier than expected and deliberately thwart the Queen's desire to be in attendance. Queen Victoria wanted to be in attendance at all of the royal births and probably thought it most unfair to miss out on Alexandra's deliveries.

I believe both women were very fond of each other. Like in most of our families, there is always some friction between members and who among us has not irritated a family member at times. The Queen may have thought Alexandra lacking in certain respects but admired Alexandra's training to keep her children humble and unspoilt. As for Alexandra, she refused to allow anyone to address her as "Queen" until after Queen Victoria's funeral. This shows how upset Alexandra was at the death of Victoria.
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  #309  
Old 01-25-2010, 07:09 PM
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As far as I know, also Bertie and Alfred had bad relations since their early years, and when children they often had to be divided due to their continue fights.
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  #310  
Old 01-25-2010, 08:13 PM
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Prince Alfred's attentions towards Alexandra


prince alfred !!
as is often the case with a younger brother, he coveted the possessions of the elder, perhaps that was the root cause of the bad relations between them ?

what is interesting in relation to this, is sometime after the wedding of the prince and princess of wales, he was despatched to germany by the queen, to inspect a selection of ducal virgins to divert his attentions away from his new sister in law........

for the prince was smitten with alexandra and was forever haunting marlborough house !!
at one stage the queen wrote the following to her elder daughter, the crown princess of prussia " he is far too much epris with alix to be allowed to be much there without the possibly of ruining the happiness of all three"......the queen perceived a danger ahead, the prince had already blotted his copybook wiith one sexual extravagnza...so hence to germany..... !!
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  #311  
Old 01-25-2010, 09:22 PM
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I remember reading that Alfred was indeed enraptured by his sister-in-law. I wonder if Maria Alexandrovna had any jealousy issues with regards to Alfred's attention, in addition to their ranks.
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  #312  
Old 01-26-2010, 12:06 AM
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I never knew Alfred was enamored of Alexandra but I do recall reading somewhere that Princess Alice was instrumental in matching him up with Grand Duchess Marie. Do you think this was a conspiracy between the Queen and Alice to keep him from creating mischief between Alexandra and Bertie?
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  #313  
Old 01-26-2010, 08:37 AM
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Alexandra's early relationship with Queen Victoria

alexandra was not afraid of queen victoria, but she was her daughter in law, twenty five year younger and in a strange country. she perferred not to stand up against the queen, whose anger was so fierce, that experience ministers stumbled from her presence, no one in europe would dare enter the ring with her, even bismark tried , but lost on points !!

the queen was of critical of alexandra on three pionts....
1, that alexandra did not make her husbands life more comfortable at home, she deplored the couples social whirl etc
2, that alexandra's children was premature, weak and puny.
3. that the children was not brought up on the stern lines which she and albert had followed with their vast brood.

also the queen clashed with alexandra on two subjects which by common consent, did not enter the consversation between them., a stumbling block to any degree of intimacy between them....
1, germany.....the queen was pro german, whilst alexandra was anti german !!
2, the danish royals....the queen had animosity towards the gluckburgs, and in paticular queen louise, the mother of alexandra. it can be said that this animosty even extended to danish queens relations.... the hesse cassels !!

yes alexandra did have a difficult relationship with her mother in law, well at least during the early years of her marriage that is !!
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  #314  
Old 01-26-2010, 10:37 AM
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Alexandra and the Schleswig-Holstein war

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Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos View Post
Queen Victoria wanted to be in attendance at all of the royal births and probably thought it most unfair to miss out on Alexandra's deliveries.
it is said that the queen dearly loved to be beside the natal bed, letting loose the flood gates of her emotions, organising all and sundrey, giving advice gained from long experience, one must remember she herself had nine children.........

to be fair to the queen, when first told the news about the premature birth of the prince and princess of wales eldest son (prince albert victor) although fladdergasted, she concluded that the couple through their inexperience had made a mistake with the dates !!

however the premature birth of the prince, was due to the schleswig-holstein war. alexandra throwing to one side all the instructions, she must put her native loyalties behind her when she married the prince of wales, began to campaign for her father and former country, she cut the prussian ambassador dead, she shouted at the dinner table at windsor "the duchies belong to papa !!. when a visitor to windsor asked the six year princess beatrice what she would like for a gift, she turned to her sister in law alexandra for advice and after a whispered word in the ear, beatrice announced that she would like bismarks head on a charger!!. alexandra became that outspoken about the war that the queen forbade the very mention of the war in her presence !!. her husband, the prince of wales backed her and demanded that the british fleet to be sent to the baltic to aid the danes against the prussians and the austrians !!.

worry about the war, which in the end had caused her father, king christian IX of denmark to lose from a third up to half of his kingdom was very detrimental to alexandra in her advance state of pregnancy, she became despressed and cried herself to sleep every night. the baby was due sometime in march 1864, but was born on the 8th jan of that year, the baby boy weighed less than four pounds......

but when the queen learned of the truth, that the war had perhaps caused the premature birth of her own grandchild, the queen pooh-poohed the idea and cast all blame on the prince of wales, due to his gallivanting about town. she then informed the prince of the wales that the new prince was to be called albert victor, this was news to the proud father, who had long decided together with his wife that if was to be a boy, he was to be called christian edward . both he and alexandra protested, but nevertheless on 10th march 1864, the child was christened albert victor christian edward !!
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  #315  
Old 01-26-2010, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Vasillisos Markos View Post
I never knew Alfred was enamored of Alexandra but I do recall reading somewhere that Princess Alice was instrumental in matching him up with Grand Duchess Marie. Do you think this was a conspiracy between the Queen and Alice to keep him from creating mischief between Alexandra and Bertie?
i dont think so as prince alfred had married in 1874, almost a decade after the events that i mentioned adove, besides which the choice of suitable brides was dwindling fast, he being born in 1844 !!
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  #316  
Old 01-26-2010, 02:03 PM
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Wow, thanks everyone for all the info. Does anyone know of a book that would further this discussion or even a good book about Victoria, something more about her personality, etc.? Wasn't there a book of Victoria's Diaries published?
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  #317  
Old 01-26-2010, 04:02 PM
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as i have mentioned alexandra was sexually cold or frigid and had no overbearing demands, and yet had she six children between 1864 and 1879, unlike queen victoria who had nine. both women had the same basic reason for multiple births : the retention of the love of their husbands, but there was differance !!

victoria had noticed that prince albert was more attentive and easy to live when she was with child, to him sex was only for the procreation of children and in the intervals between their arrival, tempers frayed there were scenes and locked doors. victoria needed sex. when told after the birth of her last child princess beatrice in 1857 she was to have no more babies, she cried " oh doctor can i no more fun in bed" !!

alexandra however only had children (not that she did not want children it must be said, she loved children and it was her duty as princess of wales to secure the succession) in a attempt to hold bertie's interest and to keep him away from other women, without success. she looked at life from her own danish family's standpoint, by which family life was all encompassing, she failed to see and understand that bertie had very little interest in children and family life !!

one can not help thinking, she might have been better to have married a man such as prince albert, who had confessed that the mere thought of extra marital relationships made him feel sick. but unfortunally she had married a man who had inherited the hanoverian sexual appetite in double measure !! it is said that the nearest that bertie had approached true love was with alexandra, but her love for him was stretched to the very limit !!. even then alexandra had once said "he loved me the best"

alexandra endured her husbands aderrations with dignity, compassion and courage, she put the family first and showed the true meaning of the word loyalty !!
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Does anyone know of a book that would further this discussion or even a good book about Victoria, something more about her personality, etc.?
you are welcome lady meg. its a pleasure to be of some help !!
yes i would suggest two books.....
Queen Victoria : a personal history by christopher hibbert (2000)
Victoria R I by lady elizaberh longford (1964).
of course there are scores of other books written about queen victoria.
i would dare say she has more books written about her than any other british / english monarch to date.....well give or take one or two !!...she even wrote a few herself.....
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  #318  
Old 01-27-2010, 09:43 PM
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Thanks! Yes, I noticed that my uncle either purchased or was given a book called "Victoria's Diary" or something like that - is this still being published? It is a red hardback book. Maybe I should just ask him if I can borrow it. I really want a book that shows her personality - the more I hear about her, the more I become interested in her. I had no idea she was so sexually passionate :: - I grew up thinking she was a frumpy, old, and bitter widow. Sounds like she had a hard life - reminds me of some of my relatives. Ugh, being a woman back then. Thanks.

It seems like Elizabeth Longford has done quite a few books. Wow! Elizabeth Pakenham, Countess of Longford, I had no idea. She is the mother of Lady Antonia as well. You learn something new every day. Neat!
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  #319  
Old 01-30-2010, 12:34 AM
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I think it is a pity that Princess Beatrice burned much of Victoria's diaries and letters because they revealed how much the Queen enjoyed the physical aspect of love in her marriage.
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  #320  
Old 01-30-2010, 01:06 AM
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Cool

Thank you again jonnydep for the interesting information you present.
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