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  #281  
Old 01-21-2010, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jonnydep View Post
alexandra was not that interested in sex. she was a sexually cold person, (why else do you think that edward went elsewhere for his pleasures....after all he did have the sexual appetite of the hanoverians).....so taking this into account, it is very unlikely that alexandra and oliver had a sexual relationship !!
Most likely Alexandra's deep religious faith and therefore her respect for adhering to her wedding vows would be a greater reason for her not becoming physically involved with Oliver Montague than her being `sexually cold`.

It was also an unlikely single cause for her husband straying. His sexual appetites were legendary. He was never faithful to one woman for very long.
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  #282  
Old 01-21-2010, 05:11 PM
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Well this is interesting. But then again, it could be platonic. Minny had Grand Duke Boris at her beck and call and that was platonic. I would imagine that Alexandra had an admirer and it was purely platonic.
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  #283  
Old 01-21-2010, 05:34 PM
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Do you mean her nephew, Boris Vladimirovich?
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  #284  
Old 01-21-2010, 05:53 PM
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I might be confusing Boris with Alexis Alexandrovich.
Darn those Grand Dukes! There are SOOO many of them!
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  #285  
Old 01-21-2010, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
Most likely Alexandra's deep religious faith and therefore her respect for adhering to her wedding vows would be a greater reason for her not becoming physically involved with Oliver Montague than her being `sexually cold`.
i am total agreement with what you have said adove, i was not implying that was the only reason as to why alexandra did not embark upon a physical relationship with oliver montague !!

silverstar was discussing the physical aspect of the relationship not the moral and religious side of things !!
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  #286  
Old 01-22-2010, 12:24 AM
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Was there any indication that Oliver Montague was gay? I must confess that I know little of him, but there are several instances of wealthy socialites having gay confidantes and I would suspect that many gay men would have been enamored of Queen Alexandra's fashion sense and beauty. I never thought their relationship approximated a courtly love, such as the type between a knight and married lady which flourished during the time of Eleanor of Acquitaine.
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  #287  
Old 01-22-2010, 08:14 AM
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i must admit the same thought had crossed my mind....but i have not read anything that would suggest that he was gay......besides which it would seem that the sons of the 7th earl of sandwich, was not of the marrrying kind, only one of the four sons married, perhaps it was a just family trait !!

i do believe that oliver had found his love of his life, but unfortunately she was a married lady : Alexandra, Princess of Wales !!
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  #288  
Old 01-22-2010, 09:40 AM
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Not only Alexandra was a married lady, but she also was the daughter of the King of Denmark; even if she was not married with Edward VII, surely their love would have been forbidden.
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  #289  
Old 01-22-2010, 10:30 AM
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well that goes without saying....
if alexandra had not married the prince of wales.....she would have married some other royal. therefore she and oliver would have never had met, as oliver was appointed a equerry to the prince of wales, sometime after the marriage !!
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  #290  
Old 01-22-2010, 10:49 AM
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About the Prince of Wales...
The italian Wikipedia has a page about a certain Lady Florence Trevelyan; it says that Lady Florence was a cousin of Queen Victoria, and in the 1870s she had an affair with the then Prince of Wales. According to wikipedia, after the scandal of this affair she was banned from the british court, she began to travel and finally married an Italian, Salvatore Cacciola. They settled in Sicily, in the town of Taormina, where they often hosted a lot of royals, included Emperor Wilhelm II of Germany, Emperor Nicholas II of Russia, King Edward VII, Queen Amelia of Portugal and King Vittorio Emanuele III of Italy.
Does anyone know something more about this woman? I'm not sure that the article of Wikipedia about her is reliable, since I've never heard about these Trevelyan cousins of Queen Victoria.
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  #291  
Old 01-22-2010, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furienna View Post
Yeah, Mary of Teck really had a thin waist too.



I'm glad I wasn't a royal back then, because I would never have been able to pull that off.
It's unlikely that Mary did either - court photographers (just like fashion photographers now) were very adept at doctoring negatives to show what was wanted, and cleverly painted out shapes to create the silhouette they wanted to portray. If you get to see any original enlargements of this type of photo you can often see the carefully etched lines which were the equivalent to today's "airbrushing".

For a more accurate portrayal, take a look at the more "natural" photos of less formal occasions - walking outside with crowds in the background, for example. But never rely on this type of studio portrait as being "true". Maybe the camera never lies, but the photographers did (and do!)
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  #292  
Old 01-22-2010, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
About the Prince of Wales...
The italian Wikipedia has a page about a certain Lady Florence Trevelyan; it says that Lady Florence was a cousin of Queen Victoria, and in the 1870s she had an affair with the then Prince of Wales. According to wikipedia, after the scandal of this affair she was banned from the british court, she began to travel and finally married an Italian, Salvatore Cacciola. They settled in Sicily, in the town of Taormina, where they often hosted a lot of royals, included Emperor Wilhelm II of Germany, Emperor Nicholas II of Russia, King Edward VII, Queen Amelia of Portugal and King Vittorio Emanuele III of Italy.
Does anyone know something more about this woman? I'm not sure that the article of Wikipedia about her is reliable, since I've never heard about these Trevelyan cousins of Queen Victoria.
if lady florence was a cousin of queen victoria the relationship must be very distant as i have not found any trevelyan cousins amomgst the legimate or illegimate descendants of king george III , frederick prince of wales nor king george II !!

from what i can gather from various websites (the entries are somewhat muddled) lady florence immedimate ancestors are the barons trevelyan and the wilsons.

according to the websites she was asked to leave england as a result of her affair with the prince of wales. which is odd to say the least, as to my knowledge no other lover / mistress of the prince of wales was asked to do so !!. i have not come across her being named as a lover / mistress of the prince of wales before now.

i have yet to find any entry for her in burkes peerage, however if the barons trevelyan no longer extant, i will have to look to earlier editions to locate her.

am sorry i cant be more of a help to you !!

PS..... on one of the websites theres a modern day photograph of her bust...and yes she looks very much alike to queen victoria !! also on another it is stated that during her youth she spent a great deal of her time at balmoral castle, where she and queen victoria often discussed thier shared interests of birds and botany !!. on yet another it states that her mother/ perhaps her grandmother lady mary wilson (entry again somewhat muddled) was a first cousin of the queen !!
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  #293  
Old 01-22-2010, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by GillW View Post
It's unlikely that Mary did either - court photographers (just like fashion photographers now) were very adept at doctoring negatives to show what was wanted, and cleverly painted out shapes to create the silhouette they wanted to portray. If you get to see any original enlargements of this type of photo you can often see the carefully etched lines which were the equivalent to today's "airbrushing".

For a more accurate portrayal, take a look at the more "natural" photos of less formal occasions - walking outside with crowds in the background, for example. But never rely on this type of studio portrait as being "true". Maybe the camera never lies, but the photographers did (and do!)
yes i agree with you.
although it is slightly off topic, i will keep my post short....
it has been recently revealed that many of the classic photographs of the late queen elizabeth the queen mother taken by cecil beaton in the gardens of buckingham palace was touched up or airbrushed (by himself) to make it to appear she was much slimmer !!
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  #294  
Old 01-23-2010, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jonnydep View Post
yes i agree with you.
although it is slightly off topic, i will keep my post short....
it has been recently revealed that many of the classic photographs of the late queen elizabeth the queen mother taken by cecil beaton in the gardens of buckingham palace was often touched up or airbrushed to make it to appear she was much slimmer !!
Indeed - the famous one of her seated in a flimsy pale gown - if you look at it closely her bosom ends at the edge of the shoulder frill in a very odd line!! If you follow my link, look closely along the waistline and you'll see tiny faint lines where a width of "body" has been removed and stops abruptly at the edge of the frill...
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...web/QMEdit.jpg
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  #295  
Old 01-23-2010, 06:00 AM
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It's one of those modern-day conceits that the doctoring of images of the fashionable and important is a relatively recent occurrence. The fact is that likenesses have been doctored for reasons of politics and vanity for more than a couple of thousand years. Sculptures, paintings and photographs have all been subject to their own methods of image enhancement. These days we have software programs to do the job.
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  #296  
Old 01-23-2010, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by jonnydep View Post

from what i can gather from various websites (the entries are somewhat muddled) lady florence immedimate ancestors are the barons trevelyan and the wilsons.

i have yet to find any entry for her in burkes peerage, however if the barons trevelyan no longer extant, i will have to look to earlier editions to locate her.
i have also found no entry for the barons trevelyan, in the complete peerage of england, scotland, ireland, great britain and the united kingdom, which list every peerage (extant, extinct or dormant ) which has ever been created !!. (well except one and that barony was created in 1968 !!)

also i cant help thinking that if lady florence was banished from court and was asked leave england due to some great scandal (which to my own knowledge, has never been mentioned in any biography of king edward VII ), it was not prudent of her to play host to him, at the risk of the scandal coming to the fore again !!

IMO... i very much feel that this woman may be a imposter and had invented her pedigree and the story, if indeed this had originated from herself !!
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  #297  
Old 01-23-2010, 09:46 AM
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I agree with you, Jonnydep, this is one possibility they I have also thought; the second one, is that the biography on Wikipedia is the great fantasy work of some idle silly man or woman.
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  #298  
Old 01-23-2010, 10:09 AM
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well her biography is repeated through out many other websites (such as tourism for the town of taormina etc) .... so i dont think it is a work of some idler or prankster. it would be interesting to get to the bottom of the matter though....
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  #299  
Old 01-24-2010, 11:58 PM
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Question Queen Consort Alexandra vs Queen Victoria?

After reading this article in Newsweek..............

Baird: Victoria, Queen and Angry Working Mother - Julia Baird - Newsweek.com

I remembered that I read this --

Quote:
She also enjoyed hunting, to the dismay of Queen Victoria, who asked her to stop, without success. Even after the birth of her first child, she continued to behave much as before, which led to some friction between the Queen and the young couple, exacerbated by Alexandra's loathing of Germans and the Queen's partiality towards them. All of Alexandra's children were apparently born prematurely; she did not want Queen Victoria to be present at their births, so she deliberately misled the Queen as to her probable delivery dates.
What exactly was the problem? Why did she deliberately mislead Queen Victoria about her delivery dates?
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  #300  
Old 01-25-2010, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Warren View Post

It's one of those modern-day conceits that the doctoring of images of the fashionable and important is a relatively recent occurrence. The fact is that likenesses have been doctored for reasons of politics and vanity for more than a couple of thousand years. Sculptures, paintings and photographs have all been subject to their own methods of image enhancement. These days we have software programs to do the job.
Alas! Poor Holbein, we know it well!
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biography, british history, edward vii, hesse-cassel, pictures, prince of wales, princess of wales, queen alexandra, queen consort, queen victoria, queen victoria's children, saxe-coburg-gotha


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