HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother (1900-2002)


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I know I'm going to raise a lot of eyebrows (it seems I do that quite often :rolleyes:), but you can't know that she wasn't a racist just like you can't know she was a racist. I think it's naive to believe that every lovely-looking queen or princess is sweet and "such a good person". We cannot say that Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon was a good (or bad) person just because she looks so on the photographs. It takes much more to know someone's soul. We all have flaws; crowns may hide them, but they can't erase them.

Facts: The Queen Mother was born in 1900. That's 54 years before segregation was de jure stopped in the USA and more than 80 years before African Americans actually started enjoying similar rights as Americans of European descent. She was raised as an aristocrat and an average aristocrat of her era (remember, she was born 110 years ago!) did not have high opinion of poor white people, let alone about people who were slaves de jure until the second half of the 19th century and de facto until who knows when. I don't claim she had prejudice, but if she did (as Kitty Kelley claims), I can't blame her no matter how wrong it is.

Anyway, shouldn't this thread belong to British Royal History section?
 
I think that I understand what you're saying. It's all too easy to judge people of years ago by today's standards.

I find that often people see celebrities as simply good or evil and not as human beings who usually have a mixture of both. Therefore, if Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon was prejudiced toward other races, that makes her automatically a bad person and not worthy of respect for the good that she did do.
 
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The Queen Mum

Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother was in serious debt with Coutts Bank at her death in 2002. With a seven million pounds sterling overdraft left for her daughter, 'The Queen' to repay at her bank. She still left well over seventy million pounds in assets. The Queen inherited most of it. Some royals have been known to go into debt and not be as financially secure as one may think. Sarah, Duchess of York as also in serious debt at the bank and had to repay a lot of money. The Queen Mum, like Sarah loved to shop and buy expensive things. The Queen Mum actually got over a million USD dollars a year from the civil list and still had to be given money from the Queen and Prince Charles to help fund her extravagance.
 
:previous: :welcome:

Could I ask where you get your figures regarding the overdraft, as I don't recall any facts/details ever being published.:flowers:

QEQM received approx £643,000 from HM (via the civil list).

AS can be seen from this article from The Daily Mail -
The Queen Mother's financial secrets, which caused concern to so many during her long life, seem to have died with her.
Click to expand...
The Empress of Extravagance: How the Queen Mother left behind more than £7m in debts | Mail Online

Therefore it would seem that all anyone can do is guess.
 
wedmonds said:
With a seven million pounds sterling overdraft... She still left well over seventy million pounds in assets.
Click to expand...
Based entirely on these figures, we have:

assets at time of death - £70 million
liabilities at time of death - £7 million
net assets - £63 million

I'd suggest that the balance sheet shows the Queen Mother could have indulged herself even more than she did, and still come out ahead. :)
 
I got my figures from that same article by the Daily Mail. £643,000 is almost equal to about $1 M. USD a year that she got from the Queen. And in the article it says she had around £4-7 M. in debt. I got the same figures that you got. If you go to Wikipedia and read the Queen Mother's article you can read more about it. In her Legacy. She liked to spend. I guess she was not the sweet inocent granny people want her to be. Huh? LOL
 
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:flowers: :previous: The thing is that no official figures were released, therefore The Mail could suggest she was GBP2 billion in debt when she died but that could just be the authors imagination. Information taken from wiki should carry a caveat, IMO.:flowers:
 
wedmonds said:
I got my figures from that same article by the Daily Mail. £643,000 is almost equal to about $1 M. USD a year that she got from the Queen. And in the article it says she had around £4-7 M. in debt. I got the same figures that you got. If you go to Wikipedia and read the Queen Mother's article you can read more about it. In her Legacy. She liked to spend. I guess she was not the sweet inocent granny people want her to be. Huh? LOL
Click to expand...

Of course she was not "the sweet inocent granny people want her to be"
- she was after all, as Htler put it, the most dangerous woman in Europe during WW2!

But are you suggesting that she was "the sweet inocent granny people want her to be" because she liked to spend her own money on herself?
 
Hi,

She did her job and did it well - and that was to personify the 'sweet, little old granny' and the 'kindly smiling, waving penultimate royal' that we all saw and loved!!!

Behind closed doors however, we don't know what went on; her large staff all stayed with her for years, so that must speak to something!!

I think she saved the monarchy in 1936 and throughout the war years; and went on helping to preserve it to the end of her days.... Her funeral crowds speak volumes as to how she was percieved...
If she spent a bob or two, so be it.....

Larry
 
I so agree with you on all points. She did her public job extremely well, first as Duchess of York, then as Queen Consort, and then as Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother.
 
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I went upto central London today to have a lounge in the sun at St James's Park with a friend and we crossed the road to see the new memorial to the Queen Mother. It's gorgeous. Even my pal Bunny who isn't a Royal-nut like me said she looked very dignified and classy. It's a really lovely memorial.
 
The thoughts of Britain's late Queen Mother are set to be revealed for the first time in an official biography.
The book, by William Shawcross, includes numerous transcripts the Queen Mother secretly recorded before her passing in 2002 at the age of 101 and gives her opinion on many subjects including the late Princess Diana and recent British Prime Ministers.

Read more: Queen Mother revealed in biography - Monsters and Critics

And the thoughts of the late Queen Mother are eagerly anticipated. She only ever gave one interview in her life, when she became engaged to the Duke of York at the age of 22.

Queen Mother autobiography to be released |Latest celebrity news hellomagazine.com

The one and only time we heard the late Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother in her own words, the reaction was little short of sensational. The writer A N Wilson breached convention when he reported a private dinner-party conversation in the summer of 1990, in which she complained about her overdraft, was rude about Princess Michael of Kent, and revealed that she preferred Conservative governments

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...en-Mother-a-century-of-silence-is-broken.html
​
 
This sounds like an interesting read Skydragon. Thanks for giving us the information.
It's amazing the Queen Mum has only given one interview her whole life. I don't think Queen Elizabeth has given any not even at her engagement. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
iowabelle has started a thread to discuss the Shawcross book in the Royal Library subforum.
The discussion of King George VI and Evelyn Lane has been moved to the King George VI thread.
 
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There's part of an interview with an elderly Queen Mother on YouTube. The present Queen gave an interview at around the same time as the 50th anniversary of D-Day in which she talked about going out among the revellers in front of Buckingham Palace.:flowers:
 
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While I was grocery shopping today, I started to think about the Queen Mother and a contrast to Princess Diana.

When the Queen Mother was 36, she was the Duchess of York and 4 months later she was dealing with the abdication crisis and becoming queen (and only 3 short years later helping her husband with the war effort). In contrast, at 36 Diana's purpose was uncertain and she was attempting to free herself from the restrictions of royal life. In 2 months she would be gone and we would never know what she meant to do next.

I wonder if Elizabeth ever contemplated the comparison herself.
 
She may have. She was tough as nails and always did her duty. I'll bet Queen Mary adored her!
 
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A mother is a mother is a mother, even a Queen Mother. Had she not been upset by the way her daughter was treated by the press during that week, she would have to have been a very cold person.:sad:
 
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The Queen Mum lived such a long life and saw so much I wish she had written about it although I know that royals are not supposed to.
 
I remember lamenting many years ago the loss to history that Cookie continuously refused to commit her memoirs to paper! I believe Prince Charles in particular was apparently very keen for his beloved Granny to do so....but she appears to have shied away from such 'laborious' and 'dry' duties! I understand though that she did do some useful recorded chats in the nineties, which were used by Shawcross!

Apparently Cookie did not even keep a proper diary....I suppose it could have turned into a bit of a Bridget Jones tome......e.g On a 'Good' day 'Ten fags. Gin and Dubbonet's x4, Champagne Methusalahs x4.....' or on a really 'naughty' day - 'Ran out of fags and drinkie-poos and had to send dear William T. off up to Lillibet's to raid the stores at BP!!!!" - day in day out, decade in decade out, if she had. Perhaps she was just too busy having a 'super' time to be disciplined enough to keep up a diary! I wander if Margo did either? I believe the Queen does keep a diary...although whether it is merely a formal report of her day or more intimate like Prince Charles', with comments akin to his made about 'wax works' is anyone's guess!

Then again, Cookie was a prodigious letter writer, so perhaps in time we may see some wonderfully juicy tomes of her letters....I can imagine a marvelous one of her letters to her brother David and his replies, which would be an absolute hoot! Another one which would be absolutely fascinating would be 'Consorts in Correspondence - The letters of Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth 1923 - 1953.' One can only hope that one day some brave editor will be found to bring about such treasures!
 
This may seem a petty criticism - but it took me three reads of this to realise that you were referring to HM the Queen Mother when you were using the term 'Cookie'. You are the only person I have read here that uses that term and I simply found it strange as I am used to the term The Queen Mum, the Queen Mother or Queen Elizabeth but not a term that was used by a woman who despised her - namely the Duchess of Windsor who gave her that nickname as a derogative term. Personally I wonder whether you are trying to be desparaging about one of the greatest members of the Royal Family in using that name for Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mum.
 
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I apologize for not qualifying 'Cookie' as HMQETQM as I assumed many readers would have got the gist/understood that I was referring the subject of this thread...sorry!

Needless to say though, I have been anticipating an outcry over my use of 'Cookie' in reference to HMQETQM!!! (I know how precious some are about the memory of HMQETQM!) It seems to have taken an age to get here!!!!!!!! As I explained on the Gloucester or Kent thread (sorry I forget which!!!!!!) I did explain my use of Cookie 'in' a tongue in cheek way! I rather like it and do not see it as being particularly offensive when used in a gentle 'fun' fashion! God forbid the time we are not allowed to have a sense of humour?!

I admit that I never felt any affection for HMQETQM but I use 'Cookie' as a pet name as she loved 'cake' as confirmed by the Dowager Duchess of Devonshire. If the Dowager Duchess of Devonshire could call HMQETQM 'Cake', why shouldn't I be permitted to refer to her as 'Cookie', It shorter than HMQETQM or the 'Queen Mother' or even the 'Queen Mum' which I would never use!

As to whether HMQETQM was one of the greatest members of the RF....I am afraid I beg to differ in my opinion! But I shan't even try to explain my sentiments as it would be like trying to flog a dead horse! I shall not be drawn on the matter! Actually I couldn't be bothered to be drawn...I am too busy emulating HMQETQM and pouring another drinkie poo in ironic homage!

Tinkerty tonk old fruits!
 
Hmmmm. How should I go about this? Iluvbertie, quite a few minor historians that I know refer to the QM as Cookie. They do admire her (as do I) for what she did and what she stood for though they also acknowledge that she dictated how history should be written, not necessarily truthfully, but the history according to Cookie.
:flowers:
 
Sorry - but 'Cookie' was the term used by her arch-rival the Duchess of Windsor and was not an affectionate or complementary nickname but a derogatory one.

Anyone who uses Cookie for the Queen Mother is insulting her by using a term that was not desiged in an affectionate or friendly manner but was deliberately coined to insult her by someone who disliked her.

No decent historian worth their title would refer to an historical figure using a derogatory name unless they wished to make a point that they were anti-that person.

Anyone who calls the Queen Mother 'Cookie' to me is insulting her and I will continue to read their posts that way.

To me she was one of the greatest royals of all time and I would never stoop so low as to give her a nickname that was coined as one to degrade her and then try and say that I admire her. That is poppycock.
 
Sorry.....I shall try not to use 'Cookie again in reference to HMQETQM if it is regarded as offensive...but it does not mean that I shan't think and mentally type 'Cookie' when I laboriously type HMQETQM or 'the Queen Mother' or god forbid (never ever ever!!!!!!!) 'the Queen Mum'!

I shall make a concerted effort not to offend the sensibilities of others in this evidently sensitive matter!
 
Okay, I can respect that.
 
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