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  #621  
Old 10-27-2017, 03:43 AM
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well its harldly like titltes etc give you any power nowadays. For a senior royal like George VI and at least his eldest heir, its all about work. and with the War it was a lot of work and little glamour or glory and by then there was NO royal power and hardly any influence.
Eliz enjoyed the job, I think when she got used to it, but she enjoyed private life too, being devoted to her husband and children. So being Queen wasn't something she wanted at the age it came to her and was then followed very soon by the most terrible of World Wars.

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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Elizabeth wasn't always plump, had a beautiful complexion and very blue eyes. Wallis was no beauty herself. Huge jaw, unsightly mole, gigantic hands.

?
not being rude but I think the QM was far better looking than Wallis. Wallis was mannish looking, thin, boney, which was one reason why people did wonder what her hold was on Edward. THe QM was very pretty as a girl, and attractive into middle age
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  #622  
Old 10-27-2017, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Kronprinz View Post
Are you kidding? Of course she would have wanted the King to live. That would mean she would retain her position.

Her time as Queen Consort was cut short when she was finally getting the taste of it.
Or perhaps she would have wanted the King to live because he was her husband and she loved him.
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  #623  
Old 10-28-2017, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
Elizabeth was quite fond of being "a plump, plain" Duchess of York and blamed him becoming king for the early death of her husband so I'm quite sure she'd preferred to stay that way.
In the end she might've been Queen anyway after the death of her brother-in-law.
She would certainly have been. I think it was obvious by the early 30s that David wasn't going to marry and have children, so then she and Bertie were next in line.
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  #624  
Old 10-29-2017, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
Or perhaps she would have wanted the King to live because he was her husband and she loved him.
But not just for the sake of it, it was also because of what it meant to her position.
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  #625  
Old 10-29-2017, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Kronprinz View Post
But not just for the sake of it, it was also because of what it meant to her position.
And what evidence si there for this? Other people have pointed out that all her letters show that she didn't want to be queen, that the abdication was a big trauma to her and Bertie..
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  #626  
Old 10-29-2017, 04:18 PM
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Yes, come on Kronprinz. If that is what you believe then can we please have some evidence to back it up. Published letters, documentation of 1935/36 that show Elizabeth plotting this, wanting her husband on the throne, and also the same in 1952 desperately unhappy about her 'reduced' position and wishing to remain Queen Consort.

Not just your assertions, thanks, or anti Elizabeth/pro Wallis and Edward books written later, but some genuine proof that what you write is the truth and everything others have put forward is incorrect..
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  #627  
Old 10-29-2017, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Kronprinz View Post
Are you kidding? Of course she would have wanted the King to live. That would mean she would retain her position.

Her time as Queen Consort was cut short when she was finally getting the taste of it.
Do you have any sources to back up your beliefs? It seems you are projecting your views onto the Queen Mother when nothing reliable has ever said she desired to be Queen and was only sorry her husband died because she lost out on position to her daughter.
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  #628  
Old 10-29-2017, 04:59 PM
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I too am awaiting credible references for Kronprinz's statements. That's the beauty of these discussions. They aim to be credible and actually, over time, can serve as an archive for those coming to the thread and wanting to get a good, clear understanding of who a person really was.
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  #629  
Old 01-09-2018, 02:38 PM
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Did Queen Elizabeth rack up $8 million in debt?
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  #630  
Old 01-09-2018, 05:42 PM
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That video has a few inaccuracies (WC is not the "seat of power") but yes, she was a very big spender, especially since she had so many residences and servants.

She only moved out Buckingham Palace in May 1953, a couple of weeks before the Coronation.

I believe when the Queen and Prince Philip moved to BP in May 1952, they had to stay in guests quarters at first. Queen Elizabeth was keeping all the main rooms to herself and going around like she was still Queen Consort.
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  #631  
Old 01-09-2018, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronprinz View Post
That video has a few inaccuracies (WC is not the "seat of power") but yes, she was a very big spender, especially since she had so many residences and servants.

She only moved out Buckingham Palace in May 1953, a couple of weeks before the Coronation.

I believe when the Queen and Prince Philip moved to BP in May 1952, they had to stay in guests quarters at first. Queen Elizabeth was keeping all the main rooms to herself and going around like she was still Queen Consort.
What was up with that? Does anyone have insight? Sounds a bit overbearing to me, not really supportive of her daughter. Actually remarkable when you look at it but maybe it's because I am not clued in to the reasoning behind it.
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  #632  
Old 01-09-2018, 10:56 PM
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The Queen Mum was only 51 when she became a widow. She had expected to be The Queen Consort for at least another 20 years and suddenly she was 2nd banana to her daughter. It took her time to adjust and one way she did that was take her time to move out of hers and her husband's official apartments at BP. She also wanted some changes made at CH and Margaret was also upset that she too would have to leave BP and move 'down' to CH while Elizabeth got the really big house at the end of the Mall.

It was simply a young widow and younger daughter adjusting to the changes in their circumstances while the elder daughter allowed them that time to make those adjustments.
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  #633  
Old 01-09-2018, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronprinz View Post

I believe when the Queen and Prince Philip moved to BP in May 1952, they had to stay in guests quarters at first. Queen Elizabeth was keeping all the main rooms to herself and going around like she was still Queen Consort.
Can you cite a source for your statement? In his biography of the Queen Mother Hugo Vickers states that after the Queen moved into Buckingham Palace the Queen Mother was served by a skeleton staff (p. 312). Doesn't sounds like she was going around like she was still Queen Consort.

Vickers also points out that the Queen Mother remained in Buckingham Palace so long because she needed to find another place to live. Traditionally - at least since the death of Edward VII - Queen Dowagers lived in Marlborough House but Queen Mary was still alive & living there so that wasn't an option. Eventually Clarence House was decided on but the Queen Mother couldn't move in until the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh moved out.
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  #634  
Old 01-10-2018, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The Queen Mum was only 51 when she became a widow. She had expected to be The Queen Consort for at least another 20 years and suddenly she was 2nd banana to her daughter. It took her time to adjust and one way she did that was take her time to move out of hers and her husband's official apartments at BP. She also wanted some changes made at CH and Margaret was also upset that she too would have to leave BP and move 'down' to CH while Elizabeth got the really big house at the end of the Mall.
It's well known the Queen Mother wanted to move to Marlborough House since she thought it suited her lavish tastes much better than "that horrid little house" - Clarence House.

But it was believed she wouldn't have been able to afford MH anyway.

It was not just giving up on BP. It was moving out of Windsor Castle, Balmoral and Sandringham as well.
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  #635  
Old 01-10-2018, 02:28 PM
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Check out her dress during the state visit of the French President in 1939. Still fabulous but it looks like it could have been worn in the 19th century.

The Duchess of Gloucester and Princess Marina were very stylish.

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  #636  
Old 01-10-2018, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronprinz View Post
It's well known the Queen Mother wanted to move to Marlborough House since she thought it suited her lavish tastes much better than "that horrid little house" - Clarence House.

But it was believed she wouldn't have been able to afford MH anyway.

It was not just giving up on BP. It was moving out of Windsor Castle, Balmoral and Sandringham as well.
Well, Queen Alexandra never did move out of Sandringham, forcing George V & Queen Mary and family to use York house instead - I think she was left a 'life estate' in Sandringham by the terms of Edward VII's will.
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  #637  
Old 01-10-2018, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by sndral View Post
Well, Queen Alexandra never did move out of Sandringham, forcing George V & Queen Mary and family to use York house instead - I think she was left a 'life estate' in Sandringham by the terms of Edward VII's will.


Queen Alexandra never had to move out. Bertie’s (KE-VII) will left his widow residence at sandringham for the remainder of her life. It had been her home for 40 years , and Bertie meant it to remain her home. Alix may have been selfish in a lot of other areas but in this one the blame lies on her son the King G-V. The king could have moved out of York cottage and leased or bought another country house , if he needed one , he could have gotten back Osborne from the state , Queen Mary tried in vain to get out of York cottage but the King liked it and that’s where they stayed .
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  #638  
Old 01-10-2018, 06:36 PM
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Queen Victoria bought the house privately for them after they were married. It was her house. That is also why is remains as personal property, unlike BP and WC.
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  #639  
Old 01-10-2018, 07:13 PM
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HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother (1900-2002)

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Originally Posted by padams2359 View Post
Queen Victoria bought the house privately for them after they were married. It was her house. That is also why is remains as personal property, unlike BP and WC.


It was purchased in 1862 FOR Bertie & alix on his behalf using his funds from the duchy of Cornwall which had been managed by the recently deceased prince consort . Sandringham never belonged to Queen Victoria
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  #640  
Old 01-10-2018, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlfraley View Post
Queen Alexandra never had to move out. Bertie’s (KE-VII) will left his widow residence at sandringham for the remainder of her life. It had been her home for 40 years , and Bertie meant it to remain her home. Alix may have been selfish in a lot of other areas but in this one the blame lies on her son the King G-V. The king could have moved out of York cottage and leased or bought another country house , if he needed one , he could have gotten back Osborne from the state , Queen Mary tried in vain to get out of York cottage but the King liked it and that’s where they stayed .
Yes, as I wrote, Queen Alexandra was left a life estate in Sandringham. The remainder went to her son. I believe her son had to supplement her income just as Elizabeth did with her mother. My point was that when one considers the very grand establishment that Queen Alexandra maintained as Dowager, the Queen mother’s situation wasn’t outrageous.
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