HM Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother (1900-2002)

[loonytick]

I think her letters make it very clear that Elizabeth did not want to be queen. She'd found the "sweet spot" as Duchess: a degree of attention, wealth, and duty that kept life interesting balanced out with a relative freedom to enjoy some degree of normalcy when desired. What's more, her husband chafed under royal duties as Prince and then Duke; the much heavier responsibility of the crown weighed very heavily on him. She loved him and hated to see him struggle. And struggle he did. His entire time on the throne was a difficult one for the UK and it wasn't always clear or obvious what the king could or should do to help maintain positive spirits in the face of the abdication, WWII, or the post-war privations. That had to have been hard for her to watch.

So I understand how she could feel that the increased burden of kinghood lead to an early demise. I'm not sure that actually hurried his death, but I can see how grief and years of watching him stress over his position would make her feel that way. She does seem to have vocalized that feeling by making Wallis the scapegoat for the whole abdication mess. David would be a more logical whipping boy for that decision, but he was family and had once been someone Elizabeth had quite enjoyed. Wallis was an outsider and Elizabeth hadn't really spent that much time with her. In sadness, loss and hurt complicated by a tricky history, Wallace was the easiest target.

 

[Denville]

Well, at least deep down she had to thank David for abdicating and giving her the chance of being Queen instead of a plump, plain Duchess of York, besides handing her a free ticket for 50 years of easy retirement.

I'm sure she was quite grateful for that.

Sorry but where do you get information from??? Elizabeth did not want to be queen.. (In any case since Edwrd was unlikely to marry or have children she would almost certainly have become queen at some stage anyway). She turned George VI down at least twice becase she wasn't sure she wanted such a life..
And she was not bothered about being "plump" (I woud not say she was plain myself). She was happy as Duchess of York, and had no great desire to become queen and have her husband forced into all the stress of being king, in 1936.
And she worked all through her "retirement" and was still doing engagements as an old woman, so I don't know what you mean at all...

 

[LadyRohan]

I'm not the Queen Mother's biggest fan, but as Curryong wrote, she was performing royal duties until the very end.

About 50 engagements in 2001 at the age of 100/101 - her last public engagement was when she visited HMS ARK ROYAL in Portsmouth Naval Base and was present at a Service of Re-Dedication on November 22th, 2001.

Here's a video of it:

H.M Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother was quite frankly, an embodiment of service throughout her life, and how enjoyable to see a clip I've not seen before, of her last public engagement, at the age of 101. Impressive as her years as Queen-Consort were, I think her role in retirement was no less important, especially as a great support for her daughter, who came into the enormous role of Queen of dozens and dozens of nations at a very young age and with small children, and as someone who continued to personify what duty, diligence and getting on with the job, really means.
In some ways, and I mean this in no way detrimental to the Queen, she did it even better than her daughter, probably because of her slightly different role as not the monarch, but consort and later parent, for the Queen Mother always did her job with a smile on her face and happy waves and greetings towards her audience, acknowledging their presence in a very sympathetic and genuine way.
I know that it endeared her to me, and I'm sure it did to many.
To claim, without any sources, that she was so ambitious she was content for the monarchy to be cast into its greatest crisis since WWI so she could become Queen and Empress, her insecure and quite unprepared husband become King and Emperor, only for him to die far too early, is scurrilous and should not be done, 15 years after her passing.

To me and many others, I think the Queen Mother was first an foremost the epitome of 'duty first, self second', and watching that lovely clip of her last official outing in November 2001, that is certainly how she should be appreciated, and remembered.

 

[Osipi]

I, too, am grateful to be able to watch that amazing video. So many thoughts went through my mind watching it. I had read where when it came to doing royal engagements, the ones the Queen Mum probably loved the best were the ones that involved the armed services. Its been reported that she reveled in them, really enjoyed talking with the people she was meeting and knew her stuff when it came to the subject matter at hand.

This is very clearly visible in this video. Her warmth in her interactions actually remind me somewhat of the charisma and the ability to talk to people that her great grandson, Harry, exhibits. You could actually see the happiness in the Queen Mum's face as she talked to and interacted with the people. It wasn't just a pleasant "how do you do" and moving on but she found things to talk about and drew those she talked to easily into the conversation.

To be able to endure what seems to be a pretty lengthly recommissioning and to walk about on her own steam just adds to the strong belief I have that this woman was one of endurance and stamina. HM, The Queen had such a wonderful role model in her mother.

 

[loonytick]

I hope she found peace with her role as queen and then queen mother--and joy in her duties. If she didn't, she at least had a great ability for projecting grace and ease in her role.

 

[Osipi]

One tidbit that really made me laugh was reading about how every now and then, she'd escape her protection officers and her staff and go tooling through the streets of London in her grandson, David Linley's "fast cars". She really had an adventurous streak in her. If you get a chance to read the Shawcross biography of the Queen Mother, she goes into details of how much she loved "roughing it" in tents while on an African safari with her husband in the earlier years.

I think her dauntless spirit was a big key to her longevity. She took life as it came and made the best of it. There was always tomorrow to look forward to and things waiting around the corner to happen and she took advantage of every minute of it.

 

[Denville]

I remember a clip of her when she was very old, watching a parade of soldiers,.. and she was standing up.. but her legs gave way and she had to sit down. But within a few seconds she levered herself up on her feet again. So to suggest that she "wanted an easy retirement" is IMO ridiculous. Yes in some ways the Royal job isn't that diffuclt compared with many jobs.. but she went on doing it till she was well into her 90s as the queen is doing.

 

[Countessmeout]

While the queen mum certainly slowed down, she never fully retired, until the months leading up to her death. In 2001 she still did a few engagements at the age of 101. While royal life may be a lot easier then most work, this is a woman who was 36 years past the usual age of retirement. Even having had to have hips replaced and cataract surgery that year, she did things like planting a cross at Rememberance.

It is said for the years leading up to those last few, she was actually as busy as queen mum as she had been as queen. She did retreat to Scotland for a bit to mourn, but she was very much an active support to her daughter.

 

[Denville]

True. She knew how to enjoy herself and she was extravagant, and liked ot have a good time but she did work.. and went on doing it very late in life.
Wallis OTOH, led a life that was pretty much all "social engagements",

 

[Kronprinz]

And you think that she preferred 'retirement' to having her beloved husband with her?

Are you kidding? Of course she would have wanted the King to live. That would mean she would retain her position.

Her time as Queen Consort was cut short when she was finally getting the taste of it.

 

[Osipi]

I think if you really got into it and read more about the kind of a person the Queen Mother was, you'd change your opinion of the type of woman that she was.

The more I have read and really got to *know* more about this lady, the more I can definitely say that actually having a hunger for position and prestige and titles was not Elizabeth Angela Marguerite Bowes-Lyon's ambition in life.

This, of course, doesn't mean that she didn't take her position and her titles and her duties seriously, in fact, it was her innate nature to uphold and do the best that she could to honor the positions she was in. Some people's natural nature is to attain position, status, fame and glory for themselves. Some people attain these things and see it as something they need to do their best with. The Queen Mum was the latter.

Kronprinz, I see you are from Germany and also seem interested in the British Royal Family. I have a book that I find very fascinating and I think perhaps you would too. It goes even further back in the history of the British Royal Family and their relationships with family in Europe. Its called "King, Kaiser, Tsar: Three Royal Cousins" by Catrine Clay. The King is George V (father of Edward VIII and George VI, the Queen Mum's husband), Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany and Tsar Nicholas II of Russia. Its an excellent read if you're into that kind of thing.

 

[Denville]

well its harldly like titltes etc give you any power nowadays. For a senior royal like George VI and at least his eldest heir, its all about work. and with the War it was a lot of work and little glamour or glory and by then there was NO royal power and hardly any influence.
Eliz enjoyed the job, I think when she got used to it, but she enjoyed private life too, being devoted to her husband and children. So being Queen wasn't something she wanted at the age it came to her and was then followed very soon by the most terrible of World Wars.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Elizabeth wasn't always plump, had a beautiful complexion and very blue eyes. Wallis was no beauty herself. Huge jaw, unsightly mole, gigantic hands.

?

not being rude but I think the QM was far better looking than Wallis. Wallis was mannish looking, thin, boney, which was one reason why people did wonder what her hold was on Edward. THe QM was very pretty as a girl, and attractive into middle age

 

[loonytick]

Are you kidding? Of course she would have wanted the King to live. That would mean she would retain her position.

Her time as Queen Consort was cut short when she was finally getting the taste of it.

Or perhaps she would have wanted the King to live because he was her husband and she loved him.

 

[Denville]

Elizabeth was quite fond of being "a plump, plain" Duchess of York and blamed him becoming king for the early death of her husband so I'm quite sure she'd preferred to stay that way.
In the end she might've been Queen anyway after the death of her brother-in-law.

She would certainly have been. I think it was obvious by the early 30s that David wasn't going to marry and have children, so then she and Bertie were next in line.

 

[Kronprinz]

Or perhaps she would have wanted the King to live because he was her husband and she loved him.

But not just for the sake of it, it was also because of what it meant to her position.

 

[Denville]

But not just for the sake of it, it was also because of what it meant to her position.

And what evidence si there for this? Other people have pointed out that all her letters show that she didn't want to be queen, that the abdication was a big trauma to her and Bertie..

 

[Curryong]

Yes, come on Kronprinz. If that is what you believe then can we please have some evidence to back it up. Published letters, documentation of 1935/36 that show Elizabeth plotting this, wanting her husband on the throne, and also the same in 1952 desperately unhappy about her 'reduced' position and wishing to remain Queen Consort.

Not just your assertions, thanks, or anti Elizabeth/pro Wallis and Edward books written later, but some genuine proof that what you write is the truth and everything others have put forward is incorrect..

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Are you kidding? Of course she would have wanted the King to live. That would mean she would retain her position.

Her time as Queen Consort was cut short when she was finally getting the taste of it.

Do you have any sources to back up your beliefs? It seems you are projecting your views onto the Queen Mother when nothing reliable has ever said she desired to be Queen and was only sorry her husband died because she lost out on position to her daughter.

 

[Osipi]

I too am awaiting credible references for Kronprinz's statements. That's the beauty of these discussions. They aim to be credible and actually, over time, can serve as an archive for those coming to the thread and wanting to get a good, clear understanding of who a person really was.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Did Queen Elizabeth rack up $8 million in debt?

 

[Kronprinz]

That video has a few inaccuracies (WC is not the "seat of power") but yes, she was a very big spender, especially since she had so many residences and servants.

She only moved out Buckingham Palace in May 1953, a couple of weeks before the Coronation.

I believe when the Queen and Prince Philip moved to BP in May 1952, they had to stay in guests quarters at first. Queen Elizabeth was keeping all the main rooms to herself and going around like she was still Queen Consort.

 

[Lady Nimue]

That video has a few inaccuracies (WC is not the "seat of power") but yes, she was a very big spender, especially since she had so many residences and servants.

She only moved out Buckingham Palace in May 1953, a couple of weeks before the Coronation.

I believe when the Queen and Prince Philip moved to BP in May 1952, they had to stay in guests quarters at first. Queen Elizabeth was keeping all the main rooms to herself and going around like she was still Queen Consort.

What was up with that? Does anyone have insight? Sounds a bit overbearing to me, not really supportive of her daughter. Actually remarkable when you look at it but maybe it's because I am not clued in to the reasoning behind it.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Queen Mum was only 51 when she became a widow. She had expected to be The Queen Consort for at least another 20 years and suddenly she was 2nd banana to her daughter. It took her time to adjust and one way she did that was take her time to move out of hers and her husband's official apartments at BP. She also wanted some changes made at CH and Margaret was also upset that she too would have to leave BP and move 'down' to CH while Elizabeth got the really big house at the end of the Mall.

It was simply a young widow and younger daughter adjusting to the changes in their circumstances while the elder daughter allowed them that time to make those adjustments.

 

[Gawin]

I believe when the Queen and Prince Philip moved to BP in May 1952, they had to stay in guests quarters at first. Queen Elizabeth was keeping all the main rooms to herself and going around like she was still Queen Consort.

Can you cite a source for your statement? In his biography of the Queen Mother Hugo Vickers states that after the Queen moved into Buckingham Palace the Queen Mother was served by a skeleton staff (p. 312). Doesn't sounds like she was going around like she was still Queen Consort.

Vickers also points out that the Queen Mother remained in Buckingham Palace so long because she needed to find another place to live. Traditionally - at least since the death of Edward VII - Queen Dowagers lived in Marlborough House but Queen Mary was still alive & living there so that wasn't an option. Eventually Clarence House was decided on but the Queen Mother couldn't move in until the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh moved out.

 

[Kronprinz]

The Queen Mum was only 51 when she became a widow. She had expected to be The Queen Consort for at least another 20 years and suddenly she was 2nd banana to her daughter. It took her time to adjust and one way she did that was take her time to move out of hers and her husband's official apartments at BP. She also wanted some changes made at CH and Margaret was also upset that she too would have to leave BP and move 'down' to CH while Elizabeth got the really big house at the end of the Mall.

It's well known the Queen Mother wanted to move to Marlborough House since she thought it suited her lavish tastes much better than "that horrid little house" - Clarence House.

But it was believed she wouldn't have been able to afford MH anyway.

It was not just giving up on BP. It was moving out of Windsor Castle, Balmoral and Sandringham as well.

 

[Kronprinz]

Check out her dress during the state visit of the French President in 1939. Still fabulous but it looks like it could have been worn in the 19th century.

The Duchess of Gloucester and Princess Marina were very stylish.

 

[sndral]

It's well known the Queen Mother wanted to move to Marlborough House since she thought it suited her lavish tastes much better than "that horrid little house" - Clarence House.

But it was believed she wouldn't have been able to afford MH anyway.

It was not just giving up on BP. It was moving out of Windsor Castle, Balmoral and Sandringham as well.

Well, Queen Alexandra never did move out of Sandringham, forcing George V & Queen Mary and family to use York house instead - I think she was left a 'life estate' in Sandringham by the terms of Edward VII's will.

 

[carlfraley]

Well, Queen Alexandra never did move out of Sandringham, forcing George V & Queen Mary and family to use York house instead - I think she was left a 'life estate' in Sandringham by the terms of Edward VII's will.

Queen Alexandra never had to move out. Bertie’s (KE-VII) will left his widow residence at sandringham for the remainder of her life. It had been her home for 40 years , and Bertie meant it to remain her home. Alix may have been selfish in a lot of other areas but in this one the blame lies on her son the King G-V. The king could have moved out of York cottage and leased or bought another country house , if he needed one , he could have gotten back Osborne from the state , Queen Mary tried in vain to get out of York cottage but the King liked it and that’s where they stayed .

 

[padams2359]

Queen Victoria bought the house privately for them after they were married. It was her house. That is also why is remains as personal property, unlike BP and WC.

 

[carlfraley]

Queen Victoria bought the house privately for them after they were married. It was her house. That is also why is remains as personal property, unlike BP and WC.

It was purchased in 1862 FOR Bertie & alix on his behalf using his funds from the duchy of Cornwall which had been managed by the recently deceased prince consort . Sandringham never belonged to Queen Victoria