Henry VIII (1491-1547) and Wives

[US Royal Watcher]

Interesting that you don't think Catherine Howard actually committed adultery. I've always assumed she did based on the letter and the testimony of several of her ladies. I'll have to check to see if she denied it after the letter was uncovered. I seem to recall that she was fairly resigned to her fate and didn't use a confessor at the end.


I also agree that Katherine of Aragon probably wasn't the flirtation type. She was very religious and probably wouldn't have responded well. The point I was trying to make is that some men think that flirting is almost gallant. They believe they are flattering women even if they have no intention of following through. I've always imagined Anne Boleyn as the ultimate flirt.

 

[Curryong]

Yes, agree on the Court gentlemen and the fashion of flirting was in vogue at certain times.

I just feel that Katherine going all the way and committing adultery would have been too, too risky. Of course I could be completely wrong! People react so differently when they are terrified don't they,( viz Lady Rochford,) others become resigned and almost apathetic? Testimony given under those circumstances must always be suspect, I think. Back to my books on Catherine, I think. I haven't read about her for so long!

 

[An Ard Ri]

How many fingers did Anne Boleyn have?




How many fingers did Anne Boleyn have? History Extra explains... | History Extra

 

[An Ard Ri]

Tudor Family portrait discovered at Boughton House!

Elizabeth I: what does this forgotten portrait discovered at Boughton House in 2008 tell us about her? | History Extra

 

[An Ard Ri]

Henry VIII's evidence to support break with Rome turns up in Cornish library

Henry VIII's evidence to support break with Rome turns up in Cornish library | Culture | The Guardian

 

[An Ard Ri]

Choral music not heard since era of Henry VIII has been played for first time in 500 years.

Video: Choral music not heard since era of Henry VIII has been played for first time in 500 years - Telegraph

 

[Valerie Rose]

Transcendent, beautiful!

 

[Biri]

Yes, very sublime and powerful.

 

[Tiggersk8]

Just stunningly gorgeous. Gave me chills.


Sent from my iPad using The Royals Community mobile app

 

[An Ard Ri]

Tudor Times;Henry VIII

http://tudortimes.co.uk/people/henry-viii

 

[zaika]

June 24, 1509 – Coronation of King Henry VIII of England

Henry VIII’s first wife Catherine of Aragon was crowned with him. His second wife Anne Boleyn was crowned on June 1, 1533. Henry’s four other wives were never crowned.

 

[An Ard Ri]

7 Surprising Facts About King Henry VIII

http://www.biography.com/news/henry-viii-biography-facts

 

[An Ard Ri]

Anne Boleyn’s last secret

Anne Boleyn’s last secret - The Spectator

 

[Elly C]

An interesting article - thanks for posting. I had always thought it was Henry granting Anne's request. This account make sense in terms of Henry's rationale about executing his Queen.

 

[Curryong]

It was an interesting hypothesis. However, there is some evidence the the French swordsman/executioner was sent for as early as the 9th May (well before Anne's trial.) The rate of travel in those days, horseback and then by small ship across the Channel (after the summons by Henry), points to this. It all took time.

There had been the possibility of Anne being burned at the stake for her supposed treason. The fact that she was to be given a merciful death (by sword) may well have been used as a bargaining tool to secure her agreement to the annulment of her marriage. Henry wanted as little trouble and publicity as possible regarding Anne's demise. He was looking forward to his nuptials with Jane Seymour.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

7 Surprising Facts About King Henry VIII

http://www.biography.com/news/henry-viii-biography-facts

Very interesting article. I was surprised that there is a line of thought that Henry wasn't good with the ladies.

Obviously, being king made him very attractive to a lot of women, but I read that Henry was considered very good looking and was charismatic and courtly.

 

[Nice Nofret]

Very interesting article. I was surprised that there is a line of thought that Henry wasn't good with the ladies.

Obviously, being king made him very attractive to a lot of women, but I read that Henry was considered very good looking and was charismatic and courtly.

Yes he was considered good looking while young; at the time of Anne Boleyns death he was allready old, thickset, with a wounded leg that oozed puss etc. from a fall from his hours while hunting or jousting (cant remember which)

 

[Biri]

Yes he was considered good looking while young; at the time of Anne Boleyns death he was allready old, thickset, with a wounded leg that oozed puss etc. from a fall from his hours while hunting or jousting (cant remember which)

Old? He was just 45 then, flower of an age for a man!
I read somewhere that after the death of Jane Seymour he fell into depression and stopped caring for his own health.

 

[Nice Nofret]

Well do look at the beautified pictures of him around that times es well you have reports about his leg and his getting fat.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Thank you An Ard Ri for another fascinating article.

Of all the men who were unjustly executed with Anne, the fate of Henry Norris always strikes me as particular testimony to Henry's cruelty. How awful.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I agree that executing a friend who was most likely innocent demonstrates Henry's complete lack of conscience. I tend to think that Henry VIII was a sociopath. The only reason he displayed any regret was when he missed the administrative skills of the person he purged (Wolsey and Cromwell) or when he worried that he may end up in hell.


I found the article interesting, but I am not sure agree with the conclusion. I don't see why killing Anne will a sword would have cemented Henry's association with the Camelot legend. To me, it would make more sense if Anne had been sentenced to burn at the stake.


Curryong is right, Anne Boleyn's fate was decided before her trial. Some people argue that George Boleyn would have escaped if he hadn't publicly stated that Henry was impotent, but I doubt that. I think Anne and her alleged lovers were doomed before they were arrested. The only surprise was that Wyatt--who probably had an intimate relationship with Anne--escaped with his life.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Spot on. He was very definitely a sociopath. He never expressed any sentimentality or regret for women or men he had once deeply loved then destroyed...Catherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn, Cardinal Wolsey,Thomas More, Cromwell, Catherine Howard...the list is long.

One of the most sickening and disturbing executions of his reign was that of Margaret Pole, Countess of Salisbury. She had been Catherine of Aragon's intimate friend and the governess of his own daughter Mary. She was an elderly woman when she was butchered on Tower Green for no other reason than Henry wanted revenge against her son Reginald.

One thing I've often wondered was how far Henry was willing to go against Mary if she'd continued to defy him. Would he have actually approved the ultimate punishment for his own flesh and blood?

I like to think NO...but his narcissism and cruelty make me wonder.

 

[Pranter]

To try and understand Harry you have to go back and look at his father, how he came to the throne and the desperate need to keep it ...the paranoia and always looking over the shoulder and the desperate need for heirs.

Then you have Harry and he's surrounded by claimants to the throne should he fail and he can't get a living (legitimate) heir. Then it became a power struggle fed by other men (and women) with agenda, with the Church over his marital situation. Poor Catherine of Aragon.

It's pretty complex.



LaRae

 

[Curryong]

As well as Henry VIII's father however, I think he inherited much of his maternal grandfather's physique and persona. There was quite a resemblance to Edward IV in Henry IMO, good looks, charisma, charm, an athlete's physique that went to seed with age, a tendency to fall head over heels (Elizabeth Wydeville, Anne Boleyn) without much thought for the consequences etc. Edward was more fortunate in his wife, however. He left two surviving sons.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

One thing I've often wondered was how far Henry was willing to go against Mary if she'd continued to defy him. Would he have actually approved the ultimate punishment for his own flesh and blood?

I like to think NO...but his narcissism and cruelty make me wonder.

That is an interesting question. I don't think he would have executed Mary unless she became a threat to the line of succession of his male heirs. If Elizabeth had been a boy, I think Henry may have ordered her death because there were too many doubts about the legitimacy of Henry's second marriage. It wasn't an issue when Edward was born because virtually everyone accepted that Jane Seymour was Henry's "true wife."

I can't feel too sorry for Mary though. She considered executing her sister (whom she practically raised) when it looked like Elizabeth was a threat to her reign.

 

[Pranter]

Elizabeth Tudor did execute her cousin Mary Queen of Scots so I'm not sure either of them, Queen Mary or Queen Elizabeth, deserve to be felt sorry for.

Technically Jane was a true wife to Henry because his previous wives were dead (even if by his own order). So the issue of legitimacy wouldn't of been raised anyway.


LaRae

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Elizabeth Tudor did execute her cousin Mary Queen of Scots so I'm not sure either of them, Queen Mary or Queen Elizabeth, deserve to be felt sorry for.

Technically Jane was a true wife to Henry because his previous wives were dead (even if by his own order). So the issue of legitimacy wouldn't of been raised anyway.


LaRae

I think there is a difference between the execution of Mary, Queen of Scots and the threat of execution against Queen Elizabeth I. Mary supported the Babington plot--and Elizabeth had never met Mary, Queen of Scots, even though they were cousins.

On the other hand, Mary and Elizabeth were half sisters. Mary was very involved with Elizabeth's upbringing. Mary was sent to Elizabeth's household as a punishment but from what I have read, Mary was very nurturing. I think she also took Elizabeth into her own household during Henry's marriages to Anne of Cleves and Catherine Howard, but I am not sure about that.

In my opinion, there is a difference between executing a cousin you never met and executing your own sister, whom you knew well.

You had to be tough to be a monarch in those days.

 

[An Ard Ri]

One of the most sickening and disturbing executions of his reign was that of Margaret Pole, Countess of Salisbury. She had been Catherine of Aragon's intimate friend and the governess of his own daughter Mary. She was an elderly woman when she was butchered on Tower Green for no other reason than Henry wanted revenge against her son Reginald.

Couldn't agree more,it was a terrible cruel act given the advanced age of the Countess and she was also of the royal blood but that mattered not to Henry.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

An Ard Ri, I think it was the fact that the Poles were more Royal than Henry that sealed their fate. That, and the fact that they were pro-Catherine and staunch Roman Catholics.

Reginald had fled England and taken refuge in Rome, where he was eventually elevated the College of Cardinals. His aged mother Margaret remained in England to face the horrible wrath of Henry.

 

[Pranter]

The Pole's walked a tightrope for years after the Tudor's took power. They were always considered a threat to the throne. So was Buckingham, as was Edward Warrick etc etc. Henry 8 just continued doing what his father had done.


LaRae

Monarch's were not known for their kindness....I read somewhere that The Queen and King of Spain refused to finalize the betrothal between Catherine and Arthur until Henry Tudor executed Warbeck.


LaRae