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  #101  
Old 08-09-2008, 02:15 AM
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You are wonderful Elspeth thank you very much. Isnīt marvellous to be able to see it? Look at all those seals, certainly made it an impressive document.
Henry must have become livid with shock when the answer came back.
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  #102  
Old 08-12-2008, 02:59 PM
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That is very interesting and I'll have to look that book up! It makes a lot of sense especially since Catherine was, after all, the daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella, two crafty, incredibly powerful and intelligent rulers.
It doesn't make sense that Catherine would miss out on the intelligent genes. But then again, they did have Juana of Castile and she was a whack job.
Catherine of Aragon has always been my favorite among Henry's wives. She was IMO the best educated and suited for the role of Queen of England.
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  #103  
Old 08-12-2008, 03:07 PM
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Catherine of Aragon has always been my favorite among Henry's wives. She was IMO the best educated and suited for the role of Queen of England.
Oh I agree. The rest were just pawns. Even Anne of Cleves who was of royal blood I don't think could cope with England.
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  #104  
Old 08-12-2008, 04:07 PM
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Anne of Cleves was the lucky one. I can just imagine the relief on her face when he very seriously spoke to her and said he would like her to be his "sister". A palace, a pension and she could keep her head.
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  #105  
Old 08-12-2008, 04:11 PM
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Anne of Cleves was the lucky one. I can just imagine the relief on her face when he very seriously spoke to her and said he would like her to be his "sister". A palace, a pension and she could keep her head.
And she didn't have to sleep with a big, fat old man with bunions and gout!
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  #106  
Old 08-12-2008, 04:13 PM
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Exactly what I was thinking Russo. That was the best part. Donīt forget the smelly ulcer.... yuk...
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  #107  
Old 08-12-2008, 04:16 PM
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Exactly what I was thinking Russo. That was the best part. Donīt forget the smelly ulcer.... yuk...
The one on his calf that oozed pus? That one?




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  #108  
Old 08-12-2008, 04:22 PM
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How gross! Yes that one........
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  #109  
Old 08-12-2008, 04:24 PM
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Off the top of my head, where did he get that? Riding?
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  #110  
Old 08-12-2008, 04:30 PM
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How glamourous!
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  #111  
Old 08-12-2008, 04:31 PM
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Russo I have just spilt my coffee on my computer. Riding?
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  #112  
Old 08-12-2008, 04:41 PM
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Russo I have just spilt my coffee on my computer. Riding?
Didn't he develop one riding his horse too much, the chaffing? And it just didn't heal and oozed pus and nastyness everywhere?
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  #113  
Old 08-13-2008, 11:00 PM
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Didn't he develop one riding his horse too much, the chaffing? And it just didn't heal and oozed pus and nastyness everywhere?
I think the sore did not heal because of the gout. I could be wrong.
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  #114  
Old 08-14-2008, 03:50 PM
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I always heard it was caused by syphilis....... but he did have gout and probably a lot of nasty other things as well. Most unpleasant anyway.
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  #115  
Old 08-15-2008, 09:32 AM
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Henry's ulcer
from Six Wives by David Starkey, 2003, pages 615-6

"Henry had developed a severe ulceration on the calf of his left leg. The ulcer was not syphilitic as some have supposed. Instead, it was almost certainly the legacy of an old jousting or riding injury which had damaged the shin-bone. Splinters of bone remained in the muscle, which created a deep and ineradicable ulceration. It followed a cycle. The ulcer would discharge; heal over; re-infect; swell, burst and finally discharge. And so on. The swelling was agonising; the discharge offered a deceptive and temporary relief."
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  #116  
Old 08-15-2008, 12:41 PM
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Yuk. That sounds terrible. He was slightly, how should I say it, heavy? that would have made it even more painful. Luckily for Catherine Parr she knew how to dress the wound. When he was young he certainly played rough, jousting was not for the weak for sure. I am just back after looking up some information about Henryīs ulcer. It seems no one can really be sure what caused the ulcer but it is suspected that it was osteomylitis (from a jousting injury) but the rumour that it was caused by syphilis dates from his own time when any ulcer was usually blamed on the "pox". His bad humour was also thought to have stemmed from this but then if someone is constantly in bad pain you canīt expect them to be sweet tempered unless they are saintly and we all know that Henry VIII was no saint. Another theory was that it could have been diabetes or some genetic circulatory disease as his sister Margaret suffered similar symptoms as well.
Whatever caused it he must have had terrible pain and in those days the cures were quite often more painful than the actual disease.
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  #117  
Old 08-15-2008, 07:21 PM
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Henry's ulcer
from Six Wives by David Starkey, 2003, pages 615-6

"Henry had developed a severe ulceration on the calf of his left leg. The ulcer was not syphilitic as some have supposed. Instead, it was almost certainly the legacy of an old jousting or riding injury which had damaged the shin-bone. Splinters of bone remained in the muscle, which created a deep and ineradicable ulceration. It followed a cycle. The ulcer would discharge; heal over; re-infect; swell, burst and finally discharge. And so on. The swelling was agonising; the discharge offered a deceptive and temporary relief."
You wonder why the doctors at the time couldn't remove the splinters.
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  #118  
Old 08-15-2008, 09:37 PM
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Oh yes and there is the very funny account of Anne visiting Henry with his fifth wife Catherine Howard and the King couldn't take his hands off his new bride so that Anne laughed at him and said he shoudl get to bed.
I can imagine that by the time Henry married Catherine Howard that he was pretty fat and getting on in his years. I believe that he had trouble walking and was mostly carried everywhere.
The courtiers were probably all snickering behind his back --- the old man
married to the young girl! I am sure that he probably had trouble consumating their relationship - if he did at all.
I am sure that his opinion was that she wasn't going to get away with sleeping with other men behind his back and all. The king's honor and all that ...
And one mustn't forget the very powerful families - the Howards, Boleyns, etc. - behind these young women who were pushed forward as possible mistresses or wives of the king. The opinion of the young woman didn't matter at all. And just as soon as one wife was either beheaded or died, a new candidate was being pushed before the king.
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  #119  
Old 08-19-2008, 09:17 PM
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You wonder why the doctors at the time couldn't remove the splinters.
Doctor's in those days more than likely killed their patients than healed them. Being in insurance, sometimes I wonder if they have evolved at all. . .
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  #120  
Old 08-19-2008, 10:48 PM
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Yes, well, I have a trip to my darling dentist again so we'll see how much they've evolved.

I was just thinking that the calf is a pretty large muscle that is pretty far away from any major organ or major artery so if there is one muscle that doctors could operate on with the medical technology of the time without risk of losing the patient, the calf muscle would have been it.
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