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  #81  
Old 07-27-2008, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
I guess Henry would have thought twice if Anne and Catherine had been foreign princesses with a lot of relatives to support them. Just think of how long it took Elizabeth I. to sign the death warrant for Mary Stuart and she really was guilty of working against Elizabeth, which constituted High Treason back then and would still today.
... [snipped]
Here I am in complete agreement with Jo of Palatine. The foreign wives (Catherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleves) died naturally.
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  #82  
Old 07-27-2008, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Mary Stuart wasn't one of Elizabeth's subjects so she couldn't have committed High Treason. She was a sovereign in her own right; that's why Elizabeth dawdled so long before signing her death warrant. Elizabeth weighed the danger that Mary Stuart raised against the dangerous precendence of beheading an anointed sovereign.
When it comes to Elizabeth vs. Mary Stuart, the case was that Mary claimed to be the rightful queen of England herself, because Elizabeth was a bastard. Such the Treason Act of 1351 could be applied.
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  #83  
Old 07-27-2008, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
When it comes to Elizabeth vs. Mary Stuart, the case was that Mary claimed to be the rightful queen of England herself, because Elizabeth was a bastard. Such the Treason Act of 1351 could be applied.
Not from what I have read although I admit that I haven't read the original act.

High Treason is an act that one commits against one's sovereign and Elizabeth could in no way be considered Mary's sovereign lord. The same act outlined petty treason which is an act against one's betters so the lawful relationship between the two was considered important for determining treason.

Mary did not owe homage to Elizabeth therefore she could not have committed treason. However, given Mary's subtrefuges, Elizabeth could have waged war against Mary and if Mary had been killed on the battleground, it would have been seen as lawful killing.
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  #84  
Old 08-04-2008, 01:50 PM
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Anne Boleyn hasnīt come down in history as a very nice person, she was very ambitious, too sure of herself and demanding and haughty, and her treatment of some of the people of the court was downright cruel BUT I feel very sorry for her as she was, in my opinion, innocent of what she was accused of and was put to death for a crime she did not commit. The accusation of incest was vile. I think that the reason Henryīs two foreign wives survived was not only because they were foreign but they were royal and had very powerful relations and couldnīt be treated the way the British commoner wives were treated. Catherine Howard was just a very silly young girl but her declaration that she would have rather died as Tom Culpepperīs wife was heroic.
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  #85  
Old 08-04-2008, 02:19 PM
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You know when you read about historic figures and their lives seem like fairy tales? When I first visited the Tower of London and saw her grave, her whole life story and death, came alive.........
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  #86  
Old 08-04-2008, 02:29 PM
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You know when you read about historic figures and their lives seem like fairy tales? When I first visited the Tower of London and saw her grave, her whole life story and death, came alive.........
It is a bit daunting isnīt it? Some years back I remember taking a tour with a beefeater guide, he showed us the block and asked if anyone would like to put his/her head on it. One brave man stepped forward and was just going to put his head on the block and suddenly stood up and backed away very embarassed......
A strange place the Tower, a Royal Palace and Residence,a crown jewel safe deposit, a fort, prison and place of torture and execution, it certainly has atmosphere....and they say a few ghosts, one being Anne Boleyn.
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  #87  
Old 08-04-2008, 02:38 PM
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I'm sure you will be relieved to know that the soldiers at the Tower do not normally carry live ammunition, (it depends on the country's threat level) .... the policemen do though!
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  #88  
Old 08-04-2008, 03:16 PM
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I would not mind if they lock me overnight at the room with the jewels and the silver centerpieces etc. Never got tired of looking at them.
I think they had their first lady Beefeater......Quite picturesques aren't they??
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  #89  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:21 PM
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I would not mind if they lock me overnight at the room with the jewels and the silver centerpieces etc. Never got tired of looking at them.
I think they had their first lady Beefeater......Quite picturesques aren't they??
I wouldnīt mind being locked in there either but they wonīt even let you stop for more than a few seconds.
The armour is worth looking at too. King Henry VIII had an interesting suit of armour .
Of all Henry VIIIīs wives the nicest one seems to have been Catherine Parr, in the time she was Queen she was nice to his children and encouraged him to have Elizabeth, and I believe Mary more often near him. A shame to think that after surviving marriage to Henry she married her love and then died of childbirth. Life can be so unfair.
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  #90  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:23 PM
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Life has some strange and sad twists and turns.........
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  #91  
Old 08-05-2008, 08:19 PM
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I had read he was cheating on her as well.
I liked her! A witty woman who was shrewd and able to make her way through the webs of deceit that plagued Harry's reign.
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  #92  
Old 08-06-2008, 03:14 AM
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It has been said that Henry had been hatching some "plan" for Catherine Parr as well and if it hadnīt been a fortuitous attack of gout/ulcers for which she was very good at appeasing the pain, this plan may have gone forward...... As it says in the old rhyme,
"Divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived". She managed to survive and I like to think it was because she was such a nice person.
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  #93  
Old 08-06-2008, 02:27 PM
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I think she got wind of it through other sources. Harry wasn't himself at that time and his advisers were running a muck doing all sorts of things.
This was about 2 decades ago I read the book, it was like a reader's digest condensed version of the 6 wives of Henry VIII. Can't remember the title. . .
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  #94  
Old 08-07-2008, 08:48 AM
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There was a book that was quite good by Jean Plaidy I think (my rememberer lets me down sometimes) called "Murder Most Royal".
Was that the book? What really comes through in all books about Henry was that he had a very flawed, ruthless, cruel character. No wonder Anne of Cleves thought herself a very lucky woman, she was allowed to retire on an income and with her head intact.
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  #95  
Old 08-07-2008, 06:53 PM
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No, that wasn't the book. I had Henry VIII and his 6 wives in it somewhere. I should just google the damned thing!!
I don't know if he was necessarily CRUEL, but he sure wanted his own way, which, being King, he got!
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  #96  
Old 08-07-2008, 07:28 PM
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HELLO, I RECOMMEND THE SERIE THE TUDORS WITH JONATHAN RHYS AND THE BOOK ANN'S SECRET DIARY, A BOOK THAT IT SHE DID AND THAT IT THERE READ HER, DAUGHTER, ISABEL I. IT IS HISTORICAL.
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  #97  
Old 08-07-2008, 07:34 PM
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I heard the series is scrumptious, but not historically accurate.
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  #98  
Old 08-08-2008, 04:19 AM
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I think he was cruel, but then the times were cruel.
A few hundred years before King John I of happy memory in Portugal got into such a fury that he had a friend and favourite burnt alive without thinking twice, he later seemed to regret this but it was too late.
When Henry found that Anne Boleyn had had a stillborn boy he said there and then she would have no more children by him. (Allegedly). His treatment of Catherine of Aragon was cruel/extremely harsh too.
BTW Have you read Henryīs application for divorce written to the Pope? It can be seen on line at the Vatican site. Very interesting to see even if it is only to see the actual document.
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Old 08-08-2008, 08:02 PM
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No, I have not read it. It will be interesting to do so.
Great Harry wanted what he wanted however he got it, so it doesn't surprise me of his methods.
I'll go hunt it up. Thanks for the info.!
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  #100  
Old 08-08-2008, 10:03 PM
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Do you mean this document, Menarue?

Address of the peers of england to pope Clement VII asking for the annulment of king Henry VIII’s marriage
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