Henry VIII (1491-1547) and Wives

[Russophile]

I had read he was cheating on her as well.
I liked her! A witty woman who was shrewd and able to make her way through the webs of deceit that plagued Harry's reign.

 

[Menarue]

It has been said that Henry had been hatching some "plan" for Catherine Parr as well and if it hadn´t been a fortuitous attack of gout/ulcers for which she was very good at appeasing the pain, this plan may have gone forward...... As it says in the old rhyme,
"Divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived". She managed to survive and I like to think it was because she was such a nice person.

 

[Russophile]

I think she got wind of it through other sources. Harry wasn't himself at that time and his advisers were running a muck doing all sorts of things.
This was about 2 decades ago I read the book, it was like a reader's digest condensed version of the 6 wives of Henry VIII. Can't remember the title. . .

 

[Menarue]

There was a book that was quite good by Jean Plaidy I think (my rememberer lets me down sometimes) called "Murder Most Royal".
Was that the book? What really comes through in all books about Henry was that he had a very flawed, ruthless, cruel character. No wonder Anne of Cleves thought herself a very lucky woman, she was allowed to retire on an income and with her head intact.

 

[Russophile]

No, that wasn't the book. I had Henry VIII and his 6 wives in it somewhere. I should just google the damned thing!!
I don't know if he was necessarily CRUEL, but he sure wanted his own way, which, being King, he got!

 

[marian]

HELLO, I RECOMMEND THE SERIE THE TUDORS WITH JONATHAN RHYS AND THE BOOK ANN'S SECRET DIARY, A BOOK THAT IT SHE DID AND THAT IT THERE READ HER, DAUGHTER, ISABEL I. IT IS HISTORICAL.

 

[Russophile]

I heard the series is scrumptious, but not historically accurate.

 

[Menarue]

I think he was cruel, but then the times were cruel.
A few hundred years before King John I of happy memory in Portugal got into such a fury that he had a friend and favourite burnt alive without thinking twice, he later seemed to regret this but it was too late.
When Henry found that Anne Boleyn had had a stillborn boy he said there and then she would have no more children by him. (Allegedly). His treatment of Catherine of Aragon was cruel/extremely harsh too.
BTW Have you read Henry´s application for divorce written to the Pope? It can be seen on line at the Vatican site. Very interesting to see even if it is only to see the actual document.

 

[Russophile]

No, I have not read it. It will be interesting to do so.
Great Harry wanted what he wanted however he got it, so it doesn't surprise me of his methods.
I'll go hunt it up. Thanks for the info.!

 

[Elspeth]

Do you mean this document, Menarue?

Address of the peers of england to pope Clement VII asking for the annulment of king Henry VIII’s marriage

 

[Menarue]

You are wonderful Elspeth thank you very much. Isn´t marvellous to be able to see it? Look at all those seals, certainly made it an impressive document.
Henry must have become livid with shock when the answer came back.

 

[TLLK]

That is very interesting and I'll have to look that book up! It makes a lot of sense especially since Catherine was, after all, the daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella, two crafty, incredibly powerful and intelligent rulers.
It doesn't make sense that Catherine would miss out on the intelligent genes. But then again, they did have Juana of Castile and she was a whack job.

Catherine of Aragon has always been my favorite among Henry's wives. She was IMO the best educated and suited for the role of Queen of England.

 

[Russophile]

Catherine of Aragon has always been my favorite among Henry's wives. She was IMO the best educated and suited for the role of Queen of England.

Oh I agree. The rest were just pawns. Even Anne of Cleves who was of royal blood I don't think could cope with England.

 

[Menarue]

Anne of Cleves was the lucky one. I can just imagine the relief on her face when he very seriously spoke to her and said he would like her to be his "sister". A palace, a pension and she could keep her head.

 

[Russophile]

Anne of Cleves was the lucky one. I can just imagine the relief on her face when he very seriously spoke to her and said he would like her to be his "sister". A palace, a pension and she could keep her head.

And she didn't have to sleep with a big, fat old man with bunions and gout!

 

[Menarue]

Exactly what I was thinking Russo. That was the best part. Don´t forget the smelly ulcer.... yuk...

 

[Russophile]

Exactly what I was thinking Russo. That was the best part. Don´t forget the smelly ulcer.... yuk...

The one on his calf that oozed pus? That one?

 

[Menarue]

How gross! Yes that one........

 

[Russophile]

Off the top of my head, where did he get that? Riding?

 

[TheTruth]

How glamourous!

 

[Menarue]

Russo I have just spilt my coffee on my computer. Riding?

 

[Russophile]

Russo I have just spilt my coffee on my computer. Riding?

Didn't he develop one riding his horse too much, the chaffing? And it just didn't heal and oozed pus and nastyness everywhere?

 

[georgiea]

Didn't he develop one riding his horse too much, the chaffing? And it just didn't heal and oozed pus and nastyness everywhere?

I think the sore did not heal because of the gout. I could be wrong.

 

[Menarue]

I always heard it was caused by syphilis....... but he did have gout and probably a lot of nasty other things as well. Most unpleasant anyway.

 

[Warren]

Henry's ulcer
from Six Wives by David Starkey, 2003, pages 615-6

"Henry had developed a severe ulceration on the calf of his left leg. The ulcer was not syphilitic as some have supposed. Instead, it was almost certainly the legacy of an old jousting or riding injury which had damaged the shin-bone. Splinters of bone remained in the muscle, which created a deep and ineradicable ulceration. It followed a cycle. The ulcer would discharge; heal over; re-infect; swell, burst and finally discharge. And so on. The swelling was agonising; the discharge offered a deceptive and temporary relief."

 

[Menarue]

Yuk. That sounds terrible. He was slightly, how should I say it, heavy? that would have made it even more painful. Luckily for Catherine Parr she knew how to dress the wound. When he was young he certainly played rough, jousting was not for the weak for sure. I am just back after looking up some information about Henry´s ulcer. It seems no one can really be sure what caused the ulcer but it is suspected that it was osteomylitis (from a jousting injury) but the rumour that it was caused by syphilis dates from his own time when any ulcer was usually blamed on the "pox". His bad humour was also thought to have stemmed from this but then if someone is constantly in bad pain you can´t expect them to be sweet tempered unless they are saintly and we all know that Henry VIII was no saint. Another theory was that it could have been diabetes or some genetic circulatory disease as his sister Margaret suffered similar symptoms as well.
Whatever caused it he must have had terrible pain and in those days the cures were quite often more painful than the actual disease.

 

[ysbel]

Henry's ulcer
from Six Wives by David Starkey, 2003, pages 615-6

"Henry had developed a severe ulceration on the calf of his left leg. The ulcer was not syphilitic as some have supposed. Instead, it was almost certainly the legacy of an old jousting or riding injury which had damaged the shin-bone. Splinters of bone remained in the muscle, which created a deep and ineradicable ulceration. It followed a cycle. The ulcer would discharge; heal over; re-infect; swell, burst and finally discharge. And so on. The swelling was agonising; the discharge offered a deceptive and temporary relief."

You wonder why the doctors at the time couldn't remove the splinters.

 

[pamk]

Oh yes and there is the very funny account of Anne visiting Henry with his fifth wife Catherine Howard and the King couldn't take his hands off his new bride so that Anne laughed at him and said he shoudl get to bed.

I can imagine that by the time Henry married Catherine Howard that he was pretty fat and getting on in his years. I believe that he had trouble walking and was mostly carried everywhere.
The courtiers were probably all snickering behind his back --- the old man
married to the young girl! I am sure that he probably had trouble consumating their relationship - if he did at all.
I am sure that his opinion was that she wasn't going to get away with sleeping with other men behind his back and all. The king's honor and all that ...
And one mustn't forget the very powerful families - the Howards, Boleyns, etc. - behind these young women who were pushed forward as possible mistresses or wives of the king. The opinion of the young woman didn't matter at all. And just as soon as one wife was either beheaded or died, a new candidate was being pushed before the king.

 

[Russophile]

You wonder why the doctors at the time couldn't remove the splinters.

Doctor's in those days more than likely killed their patients than healed them. Being in insurance, sometimes I wonder if they have evolved at all. . .

 

[ysbel]

Yes, well, I have a trip to my darling dentist again so we'll see how much they've evolved.

I was just thinking that the calf is a pretty large muscle that is pretty far away from any major organ or major artery so if there is one muscle that doctors could operate on with the medical technology of the time without risk of losing the patient, the calf muscle would have been it.