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  #681  
Old 06-27-2014, 04:07 AM
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Well, I don't know. He had three children who lived, one died young but the two daughters lived a pretty long life.
Didn't he father a child or two out of wedlock?

Considering the times and the unhealthy lives Henry VIII and his wives lived, with wrong diets, general inadequate hygiene, let alone his medical history and later on obesity, he did reasonably well IMO.

It's more our times that are abnormal, with relatively few miscarriages and with pregnancies where both mother and child are expected to survive as a matter of course.
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  #682  
Old 06-27-2014, 05:05 AM
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Henry VIII and his contemporaries would certainly have believed in that kind of curses. But most people (me included) find it hard to believe in that kind of superstition nowadays.

He had at least one son out of wedlock, who also lived a couple of years. So two sons, two daughters - pretty balanced imo. And would you really call a person who has only daughters cursed? That is rather common and happens to loads of people, as some people only have sons.

Child mortality was very high in Henry's age. Plus they often announced pregnancies at the very first sign. So each and every miscarriage would be obvious.

I have also heard speculations that Henry had infected his wifes with syphilis, which resulted in all the miscarriages. But I don't know how much substance there is to this speculation. But afaik there are less serious kinds of infections which may result in reduced fertility. And as Muhler already said, the lack of hygiene and health care certainly added to the danger for mother and child.
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  #683  
Old 06-27-2014, 05:19 AM
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He and his true wife Katherine of Aragon had 7 pregnancies but only 1 surviving child (Mary), several died soon after they were born or a few months. He had a illegitimate son (Henry Fitzroy) with Elizabeth Blount who died fairly young. He had a miscarried son and surviving daughter with Anne (Elizabeth I) that live several decades. He had a son with Jane Seymour that died in his early teens.

There is at least one historian I have read (and more out there) that says he had at least 2 more children and possibly 4 more than that with married women of the court that survived into adulthood (and from the pics I saw they sure looked like him).
That part is from wikipedia


For a man who had 11 (and more likely 17) children in total...he probably had about the normal survival rate.


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  #684  
Old 06-27-2014, 04:34 PM
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Definitely cursed by his genetics: his father's paranoia and his maternal grandfather's libido and gluttony...

I've also read a book that postulates that Henry had the genetic condition known as "Kell positive" which would account for much of his later behavior as well as his wives' obstetrical issues. Here's the Amazon listing for "Blood Will Tell: A Medical Explanation of the Tyranny of Henry VIII" by Kyra Cornelius Kramer.

Amazon.com: Blood Will Tell: A Medical Explanation of the Tyranny of Henry VIII eBook: Kyra Cornelius Kramer: Kindle Store
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  #685  
Old 07-01-2014, 09:32 AM
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I don't think Henry VIII was cursed--I think his wives were.

Interesting theory LauraS3514. Henry VIII certainly suffered from some sort of mental disorder.
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  #686  
Old 07-01-2014, 11:08 AM
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King Henry VIII

I don't believe in the concept of 'curses'.

I very much believe he was ill; could have been syphilis, rhesus negativ or other kind of illnesses, which changed his behaviour and his ability to father children.
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  #687  
Old 07-01-2014, 11:31 AM
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He fathered a good number of children, that's not really the issue.

Some think that in his older years he had diabetes if you look at the issue of leg problems and sores/injuries not healing etc.


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  #688  
Old 07-01-2014, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
He fathered a good number of children, that's not really the issue.

Some think that in his older years he had diabetes if you look at the issue of leg problems and sores/injuries not healing etc.


LaRae
According to the book I listed, Kell Positive patients also have those issues, although diabetes is also mentioned as likely being present as well. As for the obstetrical issues K+ is similar to Rh in that the first pregnancy often progresses normally but further ones are effected. The only anomaly would be Mary I - but that was explained as well altho' right now I can remember how...
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  #689  
Old 07-01-2014, 02:58 PM
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Wss King Henry VIII cursed?
No, just deranged!
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  #690  
Old 07-01-2014, 05:50 PM
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I guess a question about curses is directed at people who believe in witchcraft.
As I don't, my answer is no.

3 children surviving infancy is a better proportion than Queen Anne and Catherine of Braganza managed. James VI & I did no better than Henry and Henry's own parents Henry VII & Elizabeth had 4 children survive infancy - and interestingly Arthur died at the same age as Edward VI.

Compared to other Tudor & Stuart Kings, Henry's family size seems about normal.
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  #691  
Old 07-01-2014, 10:07 PM
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Princess Mary was the only child of King Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon to survive infancy.
Henry was determined to have a son.
Henry divorced Queen Catherine.
The rest is English history.
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  #692  
Old 07-02-2014, 02:46 AM
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Hmm, miscarriages and only daughters doesn't make someone cursed even in Henry VIII's time. More likely his poor wives were cursed for ever marrying him.
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  #693  
Old 07-02-2014, 10:42 AM
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The author Philippa Gregory also mentions a curse from the mother of Elizabeth Woodville as I remember.
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  #694  
Old 07-02-2014, 11:09 AM
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The author Philippa Gregory also mentions a curse from the mother of Elizabeth Woodville as I remember.
Yes, she does. But she is writing fiction, of course. You can easily get away with putting a bit of the phantasy into a novel (Ms Rowling got away with quite a bit of that, and didn't we all enjoy it?) Even though Philippa Gregory is a Historian and keeps her novels close to historical facts, there is a lot that must be made up, so that there are no gaps in the story. So I would say that perfectly ok to put supernatural stuff into fiction, but it has to be kept out of historical science.
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Old 07-04-2014, 04:27 AM
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Yes it is fiction, and I can recommend her books. Especially "The Queens fool".
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  #696  
Old 07-04-2014, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Fox View Post
Yes it is fiction, and I can recommend her books. Especially "The Queens fool".
Thanks for the recommendation. I enjoyed her Cousin's War serious very much. So I think I'll read "The Queens fool".
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Old 07-04-2014, 06:18 AM
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And thanks from me as well. I'll certainly read Cousin´s War :), I hope it is translated to danish.
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